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MyH34DHurtz

VB...where to go now?

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Hey..its been...a while lol Basically, a little history. I learnt VB / Pascal / Java (a little) in college a long time ago.. So heres the deal. I attempted to teach myself C++, and other than confusing the hell out of me, and several "self teach" books later, i gave up. I could do the basics, but the advanced stuff was, well..too advanced.. I kind of "ran home to mum" at this point, and downloaded the express version of VB, and it all came flooding back. I started delving deeper, and started learning about game programming in VB instead (alot easier, but alot more restricted of course)..Programming basic games that everyone starts out with - TicTacToe (noughts and crosses to me but hey lol) and the like.. And this is where I'm at. I'm wanting to move on a bit, into slightly more indepth and challenging games. I want to stick away from DirectX right now, as I've attempted it, and just can't get my head into it lol - Also, the lack of books about on the more recent DX version and how it fits in with VB is a pain.. Some people have mentioned to me XNA for VB, but the only things i can find are about c#, or are again, badly in need of updating (some are running xna1.0 - its on 3.1 now i think?) So, i was hoping some people could point me in a right direction - Basically, looking into slightly more indepth GDI+ VB game programming, instead of DX. I know I'll have to do DX sooner or later, or move to another language, but i wanted something inbetween the two? Theres a few books out there..but any suggestions? Any ideas? [Edited by - MyH34DHurtz on April 11, 2010 7:50:26 AM]

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No, do not give up with C++!!!, My first language was BASIC and then i moved into C++. When i saw the very first codes, which were simple "input-outputs" in C++ i got panicked and thought: "How the hell im gonna memorize these?".. Really!! I got PANICKED. Now, 4 months ago, i reached the "functions". It really DOES matter of the book you are reading. There are a lot of bad written books out there..

However the one book that was REALLY easy to read and had baby steps in C++ was the:

http://www.amazon.com/Sams-Teach-Yourself-One-Hour/dp/0672329417/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271007356&sr=8-1

Plus i heard a lot of programmers claiming that when you know C++ then you will be comfortable with any other languages

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I tried c++ - I do own several books already, including the famous "Teach yourself C++ in Three Weeks" - which I've read, and learnt.

I can do the "basic parts" I/O, console work, loops etc..it was getting to the point where i didn't know what else to do with it except venture into the creating forms and such - and for the time it took, and the depth required to get something that took two seconds in VB, i guess i just turned lazy and gave up.

To me, at this point in my programming experience, i can't see the advantage over VB that C++ has compared to the ease of VB..

I mean, you can program a decent game of Pong (if every there was such a thing) in less than an hour in VB, but in C++? it would take well over an hour for the form?

Of course, my experience is extremely limited with C++, and i can understand that once you've been doing it years, and have a very good knowledge of DirectX, you can do amazing things (as seen by all the coders on here)...but is it really worth ditching VB to go backwards?

I'm kind of torn..

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Original post by MyH34DHurtz
I tried c++ - I do own several books already, including the famous "Teach yourself C++ in Three Weeks" - which I've read, and learnt.

I can do the "basic parts" I/O, console work, loops etc..it was getting to the point where i didn't know what else to do with it except venture into the creating forms and such - and for the time it took, and the depth required to get something that took two seconds in VB, i guess i just turned lazy and gave up.

To me, at this point in my programming experience, i can't see the advantage over VB that C++ has compared to the ease of VB..

I mean, you can program a decent game of Pong (if every there was such a thing) in less than an hour in VB, but in C++? it would take well over an hour for the form?

Of course, my experience is extremely limited with C++, and i can understand that once you've been doing it years, and have a very good knowledge of DirectX, you can do amazing things (as seen by all the coders on here)...but is it really worth ditching VB to go backwards?

I'm kind of torn..


Yes VB is one of the easiest language you can learn but its power is WAY too limited. If you want to get into game industry or make cool 3D games, you should learn C++. You dont have to be an expert in C++. In fact NOBODY knows everything in C++, even the guys who work on giant Game Companies like EA. Employers are looking candidates who reached intermediate level. Actually by ditching C++ you go backwards ...or you stay back!..

But if you want to stick into creating just Pong games for the rest of your life then i guess there is no reason to get into C++. Actually what is your purpose for learning programming? Game industry? Scientific programming?

It is amazing what C++ can do comparing with VB!!!

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but its power is WAY too limited
I question anyone who talks about "power". I've never seen that word come up in any discussion in building what would be considered a very complex program. So tell me, what does "power" mean in the context of a programming language.

Quote:
If you want to get into game industry or make cool 3D games, you should learn C++
It's true that industry programmers should know C++. However, we have a beginner here, not someone considering what is required before he applies to jobs tonight. As for making cool 3D games, you want to pretend that no cool 3D games are being made in other languages than C++?

Quote:
You dont have to be an expert in C++. In fact NOBODY knows everything in C++, even the guys who work on giant Game Companies like EA
You don't have to be a guru, but you do have to be significantly knowledgeable. The learning curve is very high. Every person who I consider knowledgeable (either I know them personally, or I see their knowledge on display) is cognizant of the complexity. It's easy to underestimate what a good C++ intermediate needs to really know.

Quote:
It is amazing what C++ can do comparing with VB!!!
Give us some examples of these amazing things.

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Original post by oler1s
Quote:
but its power is WAY too limited
I question anyone who talks about "power". I've never seen that word come up in any discussion in building what would be considered a very complex program. So tell me, what does "power" mean in the context of a programming language.

Quote:
If you want to get into game industry or make cool 3D games, you should learn C++
It's true that industry programmers should know C++. However, we have a beginner here, not someone considering what is required before he applies to jobs tonight. As for making cool 3D games, you want to pretend that no cool 3D games are being made in other languages than C++?

Quote:
You dont have to be an expert in C++. In fact NOBODY knows everything in C++, even the guys who work on giant Game Companies like EA
You don't have to be a guru, but you do have to be significantly knowledgeable. The learning curve is very high. Every person who I consider knowledgeable (either I know them personally, or I see their knowledge on display) is cognizant of the complexity. It's easy to underestimate what a good C++ intermediate needs to really know.

Quote:
It is amazing what C++ can do comparing with VB!!!
Give us some examples of these amazing things.



When i mean "power", i mean that with C++ there are so many features like the use of functions, the use of polymorphisms, the use proper use of memory, the pointers, the usage of OpenGL, the use of templates, the use of classes, inheritance etc etc..ALSO C++ is OO meaning that you can use data as objects..Can these be done by VB .Also C++ is supposed to be faster..

and about the "cool games":I didnt say that there arent languages that make cools games. In fact there are: Python and Java, C# but you cant make cool games with VB(!). Maybe if you want to create TETRIS.

and employers ARE looking for candidates you reached at least intermediate level...or higher(Duuuh!!).

He says that he already made his first steps in programming with VB.. His ACTUAL question is : "where now?"...and i answered him briefly that since he got the basics for programming, instead of wasting his time with other easy languages, he should move on with C++ cause when he will learn C++ he will be more comfortable to go back to other languages like C#, python, Java etc.

Also i read a lot of advices from professional programmers saying that " if somebody wants to get into THE industry, he should forget about languages like python, BlitzPlus etc and FOCUS on C++

as for your quote: "However, we have a beginner here, not someone considering what is required before he applies to jobs tonight", do you mean that the night before his interview he should open his C++ book for the very first time and learn as much as he can??..BECAUSE C++ is considered one of the most complex languages, he should start to studying it as soon as possible.

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i can't help buy Feel I've re-ignited the original "What's the best language" debate :lol:

For me, I'm NOT looking to move into the games industry, its something I'm looking to do whilst detached into sunnier parts (being part of the Military), but I am definitely gearing more towards game programming more than anything else - of course..I've sat down for a long time trying to think what application I could write, but i can only think of games to write instead lol I just find it more exciting than writing normal applications...

You are right that the learning curve for C++ is crazy - especially for someone in my position who knows the basics (console orientated programming), and I'm just looking for information as to whether I should try and find a book or website that goes from beginning c++ -> c++ Games programming, or whether to do it for VB, tis all :)

I've read a few books for beginning game programming, and just find them WAAAY above my head in C++ (due to them jumping straight into directX), and if I decided to go back to C++, I'd probably feel the same way. Whereas, VB is, well, basic(!), quick, although limited in its game design from the books I've read..maybe I'm just not reading the right books all together! lol

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Original post by MyH34DHurtz
i can't help buy Feel I've re-ignited the original "What's the best language" debate :lol:

For me, I'm NOT looking to move into the games industry, its something I'm looking to do whilst detached into sunnier parts (being part of the Military), but I am definitely gearing more towards game programming more than anything else - of course..I've sat down for a long time trying to think what application I could write, but i can only think of games to write instead lol I just find it more exciting than writing normal applications...

You are right that the learning curve for C++ is crazy - especially for someone in my position who knows the basics (console orientated programming), and I'm just looking for information as to whether I should try and find a book or website that goes from beginning c++ -> c++ Games programming, or whether to do it for VB, tis all :)

I've read a few books for beginning game programming, and just find them WAAAY above my head in C++ (due to them jumping straight into directX), and if I decided to go back to C++, I'd probably feel the same way. Whereas, VB is, well, basic(!), quick, although limited in its game design from the books I've read..maybe I'm just not reading the right books all together! lol


Sinc you dont want to get into the industry, but assuming you want to make games, then i would suggest you go to other languages which are similarly easy like VB and are more for videogames: Try Python or BlitzPlus.. But game programming with C++ is VERY complex!..I have a book about Beginning game programming with C++ and they are difficult indeed cause they getting right into more advanced stuff without explaining well.

Now if you just want to make games for fun and without having to learn a language you can simply use a game-engine and create the graphics, sound, gameplay, and story with the "power" of your PC mouse only!

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Original post by Greek89
Sinc you dont want to get into the industry, but assuming you want to make games, then i would suggest you go to other languages which are similarly easy like VB and are more for videogames: Try Python or BlitzPlus.. But game programming with C++ is VERY complex!..I have a book about Beginning game programming with C++ and they are difficult indeed cause they getting right into more advanced stuff without explaining well.

Now if you just want to make games for fun and without having to learn a language you can simply use a game-engine and create the graphics, sound, gameplay, and story with the "power" of your PC mouse only!



I did think about just downloading a game-engine, and playing around (my first experiences of C++ was doing this...although that was with the original Halflife Engine (Gold something i think it was called)..but that was simply changing HUD, colours, and things (there used to be alot of programming tutorials for it, which first got me interested in C++), but was kind of put due to not knowing even where to start lol

I figured with VB/C++ at least I'd have some sort of handle on the final outcome..unless I'm completely wrong with my understanding of what the game engine entails - I see it as the finished product - lets take HL1 again..where you can maybe change a few bits, but the main thing is Worldcraft / Hammer editor for creating maps..(I've done too much of that in my life already!) lol

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