Sign in to follow this  
Portugaz D Ace

Game ideas, Educational, possibly commercial

Recommended Posts

Portugaz D Ace    110
Before I start, I want to get one thing out of the way first. This game design is based off of a manga(Soul Eater specifically) and is, at this moment, educational only. After the design is done, I am planning to take the design to the IP owner of the manga and submit the idea. If I get permission, then I will try to make it commercial. I have been thinking of a game based off of the Soul Eater manga. I have some good ideas, but I want to know what other developers think. First is character creation. I was thiking of using a D&D 3.0 style character creation screen. You choose what kind of technician you want to be, if you also want to be a magic user, what kind of magic you will use, and so on. You also get to create and customize your weapon. What do you think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
karwosts    840
To be honest doesn't really sound like a good idea.

I'd just try to come up with your own original IP. Doing a full design is a lot of work, and I would guess it is very unlikely for you to get permission in the end, so it will just end up being a waste.

Don't mean any offense to you by saying this, but just from noticing other posts you've made I've got the feeling you're not ready to make a commercial game of any kind.

If this is your dream to do this, you need to start and get some accomplishments first, then maybe if you are an experienced developer with a successful track record you can talk about getting a licensed game done like this. But nobody is just going to hand over their IP to someone with zero experience to make what will probably be a poorly made game.

Whether or not something is "educational" is meaningless also, and just because you designate it as such doesn't mean you'll be any more likely to get around the IP issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
I know that I may not get permission to make it. But it will help me get into the mindset of designing games. But you do have a good point on the fact that the IP owner will not give a license to someone with no experience. Thank you for the info.

[Edited by - Portugaz D Ace on May 2, 2010 10:05:50 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pothb    102
If I were you, I would make it so that it's like Soul Eater, not is Soul Eater. As far as I know, they can't do anything about it being inspired by the IP. That said, don't make it Soul "Ate-r" or something nearly identical... cuz that's just a whole new can of worms to get messed up on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
The main difference between the manga and my game is that you play as your own character throughout the whole game. You eventually meet Maka and friends and work together, but you play as yourself and not as a preset character from the manga.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kseh    3840
Being inspired by someone elses work to help you get into learning to build your own code base and tools isn't exactly a bad thing. But remember when you're starting out (as implied when you say "for educational purposes") the goal is more about learning and building a code base and tools than having something that you're going to try and sell to someone. Also remember you'll probably want your code base and tools to be useful in future projects which means you'll want to distance yourself from thinking of the characters as "Maka and friends" anyways and instead be thinking of them more as the types of characters that you'll be wanting later in your own original works.

Other than that, you haven't described much. A character creation screen that lets you pick your skills probably isn't a bad plan if you want to give the player skills to choose from. The trick is always making sure that decisions that you make the player take at the beginning of the game have some impact on the experience they have while playing. For example, you probably want to avoid making the player choose between two characters that should be very different but essentially both are doing the exact same things gameplay wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandman    2210
Quote:
Original post by Portugaz D Ace
After the design is done, I am planning to take the design to the IP owner of the manga and submit the idea. If I get permission, then I will try to make it commercial.


Given the nature of the IP, the identity of it's current publisher I would warn you that the chances of being successful with this part of your plan is approximately zero. I will also repeat the advice that if you have any intention of this becoming a commercial project, you should really be creating your own IP.

For the purposes of this thread though, I'll assume this to be a purely educational project, and I won't say any more about IP issues.

Quote:

I have been thinking of a game based off of the Soul Eater manga. I have some good ideas, but I want to know what other developers think. First is character creation. I was thiking of using a D&D 3.0 style character creation screen. You choose what kind of technician you want to be, if you also want to be a magic user, what kind of magic you will use, and so on. You also get to create and customize your weapon. What do you think.


I think that if you want players to be able to create a character, then some kind of character creation screen is probably a good idea. I am not sure how you would expect players to create a character without one.

I am not quite sure what you mean by a "D&D 3.0 style" character creation screen. D&D 3.0 is at heart, a pen and paper roleplaying ruleset and has no concept of 'screens'. Do you mean that you want to use the D20 system? Or were you referring to a particular game, such as Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate?

I also think that if you want to get much help from these posts, you need to learn to ask some better questions. A few, incredibly vague descriptions of a character creation screen followed by "what do you think" is unlikely to get you much, if any useful feedback, because it's a terrible question. Check out any of Wavinator's posts for some examples of good questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
Just to let you know, there are computer programs for creating D&D characters and printing out the character sheets. My idea was to use a similar setup for the creation of the character, but instead of printing out the character sheet, the program saves the data to a file for access by the game program.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edtharan    607
Enough has been said already about IP so I won't add anyhting here.

You are quite vague about what you mean by "like D&D 3.0" for your character creation. As There have been 5 versions of D&D (1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5 and 4.0) what about D&D 3.0 character creation are you refering to? You stated 3.0 and no D&D in general, so that indicates there was something specific about it that you wanted us to understand about you design (is it just that you are familiar with this version and not any of the others?)

What you ahve described about the cracter creation is that you want to be able to select the type of character class/role the player wants them to be. IF this is all you are meaning, then specifically noting D&D 3.0 tends to be confusing (just say you want class/role selection as part of the character creation process).

So, as this seems to be most likely what you are talking aobut, I will go with this.

Before deciding what classes there are going to be, you have to first decide what classes there needs to be. This will depend on your combat system.

Generally a combat system tends to only be a few "roles" that can really exist in them. Mostly this cvan be broken down into:
- Buffers: these give the party a temporary boost or heal them
- Debuffers: these give the enemy penalties or restrict movemnt enemy attacks
- Tanks: these can take lots of damage but not deal large amount of damage
- DPS (Daamge per Second): these deal lots of damage to a small number (usually 1) of targets but can't take lots of damage
- AOE (Area of Effect): these don't do a lot of damage to an individual, but can deal damage to lots of targets at once

Now, a class can be made up of several roles, but usualy it is a 1 to 1, or they are good at one and are poor at another (and can't do any other). Sometimes a class can perform several roles, but their equipment governs wich one of the roles they are dominent at. Finally there is the Jack of all trades but master of none. These classes are average at all the roles, but they can never reach the capbilities of a dedicated class.

So, even though there are only 5 basic roles, you can combine them in many way to create many different classes.

The more roles a class can fulfill the more indipendent it is. IF you want a game where the player(s) are in charge of a party and ahve to work together, then you want to heavily restrict classes to a single role or one dominent role and one secondary role.

The final thing you can use for creating classes is theaming. So a Mage might be really good at targeting multiple enemies (AOE role) using magic like fireball. But you might also have Demolitionist that uses grenades and explosives (AOE) to blow up enemies.

So both are AOE, but the differ in their themeing. Mechanically they might otherwise be identical.

Somtimes this can be enough for a player, especially if theya re a role player as the theme is important to these kinds of players. But a player that is more interested in the mechanics of the game might feel cheated by you doing this too much.

Quote:
Just to let you know, there are computer programs for creating D&D characters and printing out the character sheets. My idea was to use a similar setup for the creation of the character, but instead of printing out the character sheet, the program saves the data to a file for access by the game program.

All you are describing here is that the game remembers the choices you make when you design a character. As far as an RPG type game goes, this would be considdered a nessesity and almost goes without saying (but you wo0uld need to state that you save the character to disk in the design document just to make it clear that this is what you intended to do - but you could probably even get away without doing that even).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
Here is what I have been thinking about for character creation:


You choose a technician job from the following:
Scythe Technician
Gun Technician
Range Technician - Bows/Crossbows
Black Technician - Ninja/Assassin
Blade Technician - Broadswords/Daggers
Lance Technician
Lantern Technician
Pot Technician - Gauntlets

Then you choose if you want to be a magic user as well. If yes, you choose one of the following magic types:
Restoration
Destruction
Mix - Restoration+Destruction

Next you roll for character stats. These are the stats that are going to be used:
STR - Strength
AGL - Agility
SLS - Soul Strength
MGC - Magic
ACR - Accuracy
PRC - Perception

To define the personality of your character, you select a set of personality traits. What these traits are, I do not know.

Then you define the look of your character.

Next you define the look of your partner, the "weapon"

If you are okay with the settings that you chose, then the character is saved, and you start the game. If not, then you restart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sandman    2210
Quote:
Original post by Portugaz D Ace
You choose a technician job from the following:
Scythe Technician
Gun Technician
Range Technician - Bows/Crossbows
Black Technician - Ninja/Assassin
Blade Technician - Broadswords/Daggers
Lance Technician
Lantern Technician
Pot Technician - Gauntlets


How do these classes differ in terms of gameplay?
As Edtharan says, for party based, tactical combat you will want the roles to be quite clearly defined. For solo play, you'll need classes to be sufficiently independent to stand alone, but to offer a sufficiently different gameplay experience to justify their existence. Furthermore, they will all need to be reasonably balanced, and they will all need to be fun.

Quote:

Then you choose if you want to be a magic user as well. If yes, you choose one of the following magic types:
Restoration
Destruction
Mix - Restoration+Destruction


Why would I choose no? Why would I choose one or the other instead of both?
Is there a strong reason for deciding this at character creation? Why not leave it open for players to choose magic related abilities as an option at level up?

Quote:

Next you roll for character stats. These are the stats that are going to be used:
STR - Strength
AGL - Agility
SLS - Soul Strength
MGC - Magic
ACR - Accuracy
PRC - Perception


If by 'roll' you mean the character stats will be randomly generated, I'd advise against it. Baldur's Gate had randomly generated stats, and it basically just turned character generation into a drawn out exercise in clicking on the "reroll" button until you reached some kind compromise between getting the stats you wanted, and dying of boredom. Most CRPGs nowadays give the player a pool of points to allocate to his stats as he chooses. It may not be perfect, but it's fairer and much, much less annoying.

One thing you will need to consider though, is how well the different stats are balanced. While it is OK for some stats to be more valuable to specific classes than others, they should all have some kind of value to everyone. Magic for example, should have some kind of use even to non-magic using characters. Otherwise the stat can be trivially exploited as a 'dump stat', with players dropping it down to 0 in order to boost other stats they do care about to maximum.

Another thing to consider is a feature that is increasingly popular in RPG games, and that is the ability to respec your character later on in the game. Sometimes, players will accidentally gimp their characters by choosing options that do not work well together, and only after a bit of time playing the game and learning the mechanics do they realise this. A respec feature gives them the opportunity to undo their earlier mistakes, although this does not necessarily have to be free.

[Edited by - Sandman on May 11, 2010 1:50:34 PM]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edtharan    607
You have an interesting set of themes for your character classes, but unless you put mechnaics behind them, that is all they are "Themes".

Game desing is not just about creating interesting themeing. If that is all it was, then anybody with a modicum of creativity could be a world class game designer. What seperates an "interesting Theme" from a game design is the mechanics.

Gameplay can be seen as a combination of content (including themeing) and mechnaics. So if you want players to be able to "play" the game, then you need gameplay and this means you need to develop your mechancis (as you already have a strong theme).

This is what I was talking about in my first post. I was trying to direct your thinking along mechanics lines as you had not posted much on it.

So, using your class themes, the excersize you need to do is describe how they differ mehanistically, not theamatically. How does a "Blade Technician" differ from a "Scythe Technician" in tems of mechanics.

Sure, the Blade Technician might use broard swords, and the Scythe Technician might use a scyth, but both make melee attacks at a certain rate with them which dose a certain amount of damge.

But what is important to the design is how the classes differ. Is the Blade Technician able to take more damge, but attack slower then the Scythe Technician, nad does the Scythe Technician do more damage each hit and can attack more often, but can't take as much damage as a Blade Technician?

This is what is needed for your class designs now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
Sandman and Edtharan;


In response to your questions,



GamePlay:
Each technician job would have their ups and downs. The scythe technician for example: A scythe tecnician is a medium range fighter with some proficiency in hand-to-hand combat. However, they can be easily overpowered by a long range fighter such as a gun tech or a range tech. Now the black technician: A black technician is able to get close to a target if the user's skill is high enough, but can be beaten by a blade tech or a pot tech who's jobs usually have higher levels of perception. As I figure out specific weaknesses for the rest of the jobs, I will post to see what you guys think.



Magic choices:
You asked me why someone would choose no, or not choose the mix option. The reason why you would choose No is because you will be able to have a higher proficiency in your technician area. You see, as in other RPGs, the more classes you have, the longer it takes to build those classes. Same thing here. also, if you did choose to use magic, you wouldn't want to choose Mix because it limits your development in both feilds. You can still choose mix if you want, you just have to be prepaired for the limit of your magic abilities.BTW, I was already planning on including an in-game job extension for magic.




Rolling for Stats:
I know what you mean when you talk about Baldur's Gate and the random stat generation. I have played Baldur's Gate I & II. So I do know how annoying it is. To fix this, I would set a stat roll range that the randomizer has to abide by. Also, I would include a stat pool of X points that you can use. the points in the pool would be calculated by an algorithm based on the stat rolls. And to deal with the "dump stat" problem, I would set a minimum level for that stat. To take care of the respec options, I would set up respec shops at certain points in the game. The respecs would not be free of course, but I would keep the prices reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Edtharan    607
Quote:
As I figure out specific weaknesses for the rest of the jobs,

In most RPGs, the player(s) are expected to work in a group. Because of this they build inherent weaknesses into their classes to force players to work together.

For example: A Bard, is typically not very good at hand to hand combat, like a fighter, but in terms of negotiating with NPCs, or buffing the group, the bard is much better than a typical fighter. So the bard has a weakness that is covered by the fighter, and the fighter has a weakness covered by the bard.

In your game, you indicate that the player plays as a single character and haven't stated that this game is multiplayer. This then is a problem if you are going to have weakness in the player character's classe.

They will encounter enemies/situations where their character can not hope to overcome the obstacle in their path and they can not progress in the game.

If the player plays as a party, of course, then this problem can be averted, but it does mean that you have to account for players that don't want to play a particular class.

For example: If you ahve a situation where magic is needed to overcome an obstacle to contunie with the game, but the player has no magic using classes in their group, then they can no longer complete the game.

The poor solution is to make every class able to complete any obstacle in the game, but this means that the choice of class has no real impact on the game. The class just become a thin venear over the game and is trivialised.

The harder, and more staisfying option is to have each obstacle solved in multiple ways, one way for each class (this is what adding lots of classes to a game just makes the design job harder or produces a game that is not very fun). And there needs to multiple conclusions and plot paths due to this (but fortunately not a 1 to 1 for each class but more than jsut 1 potential conclusion for succes or failure).

An example could be:
The character(s) have to cross a ravine. An athletic character could attempt to jump over the ravine and a magic character might attempt to use a fly spell (there would be others, but I'll stick to 2 for simplicity - for example other classes mmight end up haivng to back track and find a completely different way or avoid it althgether). The consiquence for the jumping character if succefful would be they land on the other side and trigger an ambush combat. Failure would mean they flal down the ravine and if they survive they have to find a way out.

The magic fly spell might allow the character to cross easily and also be able to spot and avoid the ambush on the other side. Failure might be that they have mucked up the spell and lost it and so needs to rest and regain the spell.

With a diverse party, the player will usually ahve multiple options on how to overcome a challenge, but you stiull need to account for the fact that a player might want to play as a single class party.

If the player only has 1 character that they can play, then you are still faced with the same problem as if the player chose to play as a single class party (which in effect it is - it is just a single class party of 1).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Portugaz D Ace    110
Right now I am trying to just make the game, not make it a online multiplayer game. BTW, it's for the PC. If I can get the game itself working, then I will work on making it multiplayer. Also, I forgot to mention, at certain points in game(mainly optional quests), the character will be able to extend their technician abilities. In other words, a Lance Tech can become a Gun Tech as well. Does anyone get where I am going with this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this