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RabidPuppy

Where to now

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Hello
So this is my first post but hopefully not my last. I am not sure where to post this but this seemed most appropriate. I will try to make this as short as possible but unfortunately i think it may well turn into a life story type of thing but basically i am asking what i need to do now.
5 years ago me and one other buddy started messing around talking about what we think an mmorpg should be. Since its turned into 8 of us and it changed from this would be cool to a few hundred pages outlining everything to do from character selection to walking up to the end world bosses. It also went from a doodle on a napkin while we were bantering about it to now my den and half my living room wall papered with concept art along with a 300 page binder being full.

We just kept talking everything through drawing random things we talked about and working on the concept to the point where we cant actually think of anything that would be practical to add. We started taking it a bit more serious and with the conversation yesterday i thought it may be good to ask more experienced folks. Here is what we have.

A fully complete concept
More concept art then could possibly be necessary
"Mood" music that would be used ingame
About 90k before going into debt between us

Our skills very greatly.
Artists, Both paper and digital but not modeling
Programmers, 2 of us are very good programmers but lack experience to be considered lead programmer
Composer

And as i type this i have a guy thats working on the images/outline for a website that i will cut up and create a website.

Where do we go from here?
Would it be practical to try and get a lead programmer type/ modelers?
Would it be worth the time to try and throw this at game companies?
To be honest I am clueless it all seems so massive i cannot figure out what the next step would be

Anywho thank you for your time
Rabidpuppy

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To be honest an MMORPG is just so difficult to start. Just like you, I have so many ideas on storys, characters, mechanics, etc etc.

I don't wanna burst your bubble, but it is almost impossible for an indie studio to start up by making an MMO. The upcost is incredible high, in addition to it's start up. Also the size of the team needed to realistically develop an MMORPG in say 4-5 years would need to be quite large. I am in no way attempting to dishearten or persuade you that it is a bad idea. However I think that with the group of people you have it would be more feasible for you to create a less complex game. A simple action rpg, or classic rpg would be appropriate.

Just like you, a couple years back I had so many ideas. Since realizing that it was just not feasible for me and a few others to start up our dream mmo, we began to basically take a spin off of our world and shrink it down. We kept the races, and developed/used characters that were either important figures or leaders in our MMO concept, and told their stories and the wars that took place prior to the MMO in our timeline.

I hope this is of some help, if you wanna discuss further or have any questions either reply here or PM me.

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Pup, you wrote:

Quote:
1. 5 years ago me and one other buddy started messing around talking about what we think an mmorpg should be. Since its turned into 8 of us ... now my den and half my living room wall papered with concept art along with a 300 page binder being full.

2. About 90k before going into debt between us

3. Our skills very greatly.
Artists, Both paper and digital but not modeling
Programmers, 2 of us are very good programmers but lack experience to be considered lead programmer
Composer

4. Where do we go from here? To be honest I am clueless it all seems so massive i cannot figure out what the next step would be
5. Would it be practical to try and get a lead programmer type/ modelers?
6. Would it be worth the time to try and throw this at game companies?


1. 300 pages is about right. Check the various GDD outlines out there, make sure you've covered all the bases.
2. That's not very much money. Not for an MMORPG. You MIGHT be able to make a proof-of-concept demo with that.
3. You also need a manager (someone who keeps the team moving, who facilitates and communicates) and a business person (someone to take care of the legal and financial matters, forming the company, writing the business plan).
4. You should have figured this out first, before writing a complete GDD. What is it you hope to accomplish -- do you want to be the developer, or do you want to self-publish, do you want to pitch the game? You have to figure this part out yourselves.
5. You kinda have to do that, don't you think? If you're going to have 3D graphics anyway.
6. "Worth" is subjective. Read these:
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson11.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson21.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson35.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/route66.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/article60.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/finances.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson29.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson16.htm
http://www.sloperama.com/advice/article58.htm

By the way, this is NOT a "Game design" post. This is a VERY frequent "Beginners" question (sometimes a "Business" question). Moving.

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First thank you very much for your reply.
We have already and are continuing to talk about spinning the concept off and writing up a single player version as well. And we or at least i am under no misconceptions that we will ever get this launched without an act of god. This is more of a hobby that none of us want to let die. We are talking it much more seriously then we were and would like to continue with it. I should have been a little clearer on that.

End goal with this is direction so we can continue along our way giving us a uniform project to work on together as friends. If my goal was to get it produced i know how to do that. Form a company sink as much money in as possible, hire folks who know what they are doing, get it to a point where we can get a corp interested and sell out. But, as it stands, we have fun doing this and have decided we are willing to spend money to keep it going but are not in love with the idea of throwing money down the drain. i.e. if we do start spending on it AND later we happen to try to make it actually happen then we want to have spent that money wisely.

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Sorry for the double post but Tom got that in before me.

I will organize this much like you did for the sake of quickness. and sorry about hitting the wrong forum now that you say that i shoulda realized taht.

1. We go way over that i used the phrase few hundred so folks would not be yelling way too long cut it down. etc etc.
2. If we were to acctually try to get something useable we have access to much more money via credit and other avenues.
3. I think manager is a good idea but given is that the viable next step for us? Business wise if we went that route we would have it covered.
4. We want to continue developing it and IF it ever got to that pitch it to a corp. We in no way ever want to try and release ourselves.
5. Im simply asking if thats the next step. Should we strike up a deal with a digital artist to turn some of our concept art into models OR should we get a lead programmer type and start trying to get an engine made.
6. I mean worth as in is it worth throwing it at companies now or trying to continue development.

And continuing reading the info u linked to. tyvm for your reply

*Edit* Ok so i have read most of your FAQ. and Just forget the "worth it to throw this at game companies" thing.

I am still pretty clueless but what I've gotten from them is i need to pick up a Lead programmer/manager type to give us guidance on getting an engine built.

Figure even if we spend a bit of cash on somebody to come in and tell us where to start and give us a guide would probably be less expensive then a lot of other habits. I would still like more input if folks are willing. Almost all feedback is good, better to have too much to think about then not enough.

[Edited by - RabidPuppy on July 1, 2010 4:33:47 AM]

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Quote:
Original post by RabidPuppy
First thank you very much for your reply.
End goal with this is direction so we can continue along our way giving us a uniform project to work on together as friends.

The highest priority for your team has to be to sit down and work out a unified goal -- a reason why the group is making this game, what you hope to accomplish with it, who owns the IP, what happens if somebody quits or moves, how to share the costs and profits: a collaboration agreement, as described in that article on contracts. Many links in the article for more information. If you want to stay friends, you absolutely have to do this, five years ago.

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