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Well I have being writing down a GDD for a game, I was a student here in Brazil, I left the college due to lack of Game Design formation and job spots on the market here... Still, I wish to keep connected to the Game Dev world...

Perhaps many would like this project of mine, I want to present it so I could kick into some company to start working with that, or just to sell it for someone.

I have little knowledge over programming and I hate doing art work, including modeling, I am still searching for something to do in the area, and my wish is to become a Game Designer. I know that most only hire veteran programmers or art-workers for that job, I still think its unfortunate and that people like me should get a chance.

Well, enough with the explanations, I just wanted to ask if someone could help me through contacting companies to give away ideas, even to be tested as a GD or something, I am really looking forward to it.

Thanks and best regards

PS: I was a student member on IGDA, and my membership just unvalidated, do you think I should renew it?

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This post might be more appropriate for "Breaking In" forum.

Still, I think it will be really hard to sell your project to anyone or kick it into a company of some sort (unless you start one yourself). If you read some of the Game Design threads, you would see that pretty much everyone has an idea of some sort, and everyone has a dream game that they deem pure awesomeness (I am no exception). However, starting up as a game designer is extremely hard, normally they are people from the inside who had broken in as programmers or artists. This is getting cliche, but the industry is searching for is people who can complete projects, not only invent them. And they can't know if you're one of the formers, unless you have something to show them (like a completed project or some game dev experience). Therefor, your best bet would be getting a degree as a programmer (not necessarily game dev, you could study it on your own spare time), making a demo and applying for a job in a company. Once you get in, it's much simpler to move around and you might even get to do your project.

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Game designers basically do a little of everything:
- Scripting, which is like simplified programming.
- Level design, which is like simplified 3D modelling.
- Data entry (spreadsheets, databases, text files, custom tools).
- Document writing (so programmers and artists know what you want).
- Problem solving (figuring out which of your cool ideas are technically feasible and which are not)
- Debugging (figuring out why your cool ideas just AREN'T WORKING!!)
- Endless meetings (discussing why you think your idea is better than your boss's and trying not to have him fire you)

If those all sound like things you'd be willing to do, then you could have a shot at being a designer.


You can also give your ideas away, but the chances of a company actually making the game you propose is EXTREMELY small. So small that you'd have to be an Incanter to have any reasonable chance of it occurring at all.

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Original post by xdj1nn
1. my wish is to become a Game Designer. I know that most only hire veteran programmers or art-workers for that job,
2. I still think its unfortunate and that people like me should get a chance.
3. I just wanted to ask if someone could help me through contacting companies to give away ideas, even to be tested as a GD or something,

1. Wrong. Anybody with game industry experience can become a game designer. Read Frequently Asked Questions #1, 4, 7, and 14, at http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html
2. YOU make your OWN chances. Nobody is going to give you one.
3. Read Frequently Asked Questions #1 and 11.

BTW... moved to Breaking In (almost moved it to Game Design, decided against that). You should scroll up and click the blue "View Forum FAQ" link.

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Well thanks anyway, still all that have being said I have said already on my post... Still, I am not a random guy into the area, I actually studied 3 years already, I know how the market rolls and I know how things work, I was just trying a shot, if no one can help me through this, then whatever...

The Moderator has being quite aggressive and disrespectful with his reply, and I am sorry if you feel angry about me asking for help...

Still, I know the odds are low to kick in, but I can complete a project, just need the opportunity for such, currently I am in a Marketing School, so I do not depend on this for anything, but I still like the area and if possible I will make at least one project...

Finishing projects depend much more on the funds for it and the programmers then the Game Designers, this strategy does not seem logical to me.

And yes, I mess up with everything a bit, but I am no ace at any of the areas despite writing stories and developing the game systems, I have made several board games and some text based games, that I can present for companies, but it is impossible for me to make a digital game demo since I do not have the time neither the resources for such.

EDIT: I just remembered to say that I do not intend to kick in as a Head Designer, my will is to become some sort of Junior GD, much more like an apprentice that gets his hands dirty and learn from the more experienced ones, of course...

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Original post by xdj1nn
The Moderator has being quite aggressive and disrespectful with his reply, and I am sorry if you feel angry about me asking for help...

Still, I know the odds are low to kick in, but I can complete a project, just need the opportunity for such, currently I am in a Marketing School, so I do not depend on this for anything, but I still like the area and if possible I will make at least one project...

Finishing projects depend much more on the funds for it and the programmers then the Game Designers, this strategy does not seem logical to me.


Tom Sloper is not being aggresive towards you - he is simply trying to help you. The question(s) you are asking are extremely common and I have seen Tom give the same advice multiple times.

I would really really strongly advise you to go to Tom' site and read every article multiple times. It really is the most straight-talking advice I have ever seen for any one who wants to break into the Gmaes Industry as a designer.

Quote:
I know that most only hire veteran programmers or art-workers for that job, I still think its unfortunate and that people like me should get a chance.


Yes you are correct - why should a great experienced loyal employee be given the role of game designer when you've "had it hard". This may sound harsh but the reality is, in life, if you want something, you need to work for it. Designing a GDD does show passion and interest in the area but is not enough to get you a job as a game designer.

Quote:
EDIT: I just remembered to say that I do not intend to kick in as a Head Designer, my will is to become some sort of Junior GD, much more like an apprentice that gets his hands dirty and learn from the more experienced ones, of course...


It is highly unlikely you will be hired at any company as a game designer straight away. It's not impossible, but to maximise your chances of getting to the position of game designer you should accept that it probably won't happen.

If you really really really want this you need to look for any job you can get in the games industry. Testing is a very common way in for many people and teaches you an amazing amount about the industry as you get tastes of every area.

You also mentioned you are studying marketing! Great! Games need Marketing! Perhaps another way into the industry for you is to go into marketing. Who knows... once you have some experience in that area - perhaps you can branch out into other areas and work towards being a designer. It's by no means a direct or easy route from marketing to designing but it is a route!

Finally, I want to finish by saying don't take any comments given to you here personally. We don't KNOW you. You might be the greatest games designer to come out of Brazil ever! But we don't know that and more importantly the GAMES INDUSTRY does not know that!

Everything we say here is with the aim of helping you reach your goal and to instill a sense if realism too.

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Techically you really still are some random guy in the field. You have no experience or any degree proving you are capable of completing something to show otherwise. The topic of "I have this awesome game idea! Why doesn't anybody want to pay me to make it?" comes up all the time here so you have to forgive people if some answers sound kind of trite.

Not to be mean but ideas are pretty worthless and a complete GDD isn't much better. Its the implemention of ideas that mean anything. I could throw together a 200 page GDD for a game that couldn't be made. Commerical games are about making money so it makes sense they give game design jobs to people who prove they can get things done. If you think about it logically are you going to pick a guy with a "cool idea" or a guy that has worked on X games from start to finish? There is a very good chance that "cool idea" guy wants to have features because they are "cool" and not because they are feasible. Maybe that does't sound fair but what have you done to show you deserve a chance?

Get involved as a designer for some indie games. If you get a few good ones under your belt commerical companies will be more inclined to look at you. Or may even contact you. The bottom line is if all you have a GDD and nothing else no commerical company is going to look at you.

To actually answer your question, most companies don't take game ideas from outside the company. Most companies won't even look at idea submitted from outside. There are to many potential legal issues to deal with using a submitted idea as a game. Not to mention that most companies probably got dozens of other possible games created from inside they could be working on.

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As I have said already, I just want to get contact with them and came here to ask for that, if you are not willing to at least point me some ways for such then I am wasting my time here.

I do not need it, neither dream about that like a fanatic lunatic, just got some good material, and a little experience, I wont work as a programmer or an artist, dont like the jobs, so I wont do it. Still, if I was willing to move into art, Game Industry is not an option, I would much rather work for Publicity Industry or just mess with photo editing for magazines, pays better, has larger deadlines and I have pretty good contacts within the area inside Brazil, so I would never have to move to much muscle to go after it, besides I am not that talented on such and I really hate it haha

Someone there mentioned testing, well, if you can point me some companies that might hire outside from EU and USA I would appreciate such.

About indie projects, if you find me or point me people willing to work on such, then it would be helpful, I have already tried to build up such *teams*, but Brazilians tend to be way too lazy, and it never gets out from the paper project + a few bad-modeled models, or an ugly HUD...

Well, I shouldnt, but thanks for the *support*

EDIT: I have plenty mini-projects for Indie Games, none finished, all made by me, I still can take them out of my old-useless folders and start working on it again...
And I am talking business here, not a random idea from a 15 year old dreamer, specially because I left the area for a reason, and the reason is exactly this locked up policy for newcomers. Seriously, if you take a look at my projects you might find some of them good.

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Original post by xdj1nn
Perhaps many would like this project of mine, I want to present it so I could kick into some company to start working with that, or just to sell it for someone.
...
Well, enough with the explanations, I just wanted to ask if someone could help me through contacting companies to give away ideas, even to be tested as a GD or something, I am really looking forward to it.
...
As I have said already, I just want to get contact with them and came here to ask for that, if you are not willing to at least point me some ways for such then I am wasting my time here.

I'm going to point you back to Tom's post Faq #1: So you have an Idea?. The thing of it is, companies don't care, and no one can help you contact them, because the companies don't want to be contacted. Firstly, ideas and designs are a dime a dozen and so most companies have plenty of material coming from the inside (Tom's faq mentions one way to get YOUR ideas made is to work at a company first, and get the game made second). Secondly, game companies are only half the equation. You have to sell your idea to a publisher, or fund the game yourself. That means, many a good idea will get radically transformed by a publisher based on marketing and legal research (most commonly, female leads have been forced to become male leads. Real locations and events have been forced to become fake or cut).

Quote:

I do not need it, neither dream about that like a fanatic lunatic, just got some good material, and a little experience, I wont work as a programmer or an artist, dont like the jobs, so I wont do it. Still, if I was willing to move into art, Game Industry is not an option, I would much rather work for Publicity Industry or just mess with photo editing for magazines, pays better, has larger deadlines and I have pretty good contacts within the area inside Brazil, so I would never have to move to much muscle to go after it, besides I am not that talented on such and I really hate it haha

Read this. You're going to have to figure out where you fit in, and change your attitude from "i'm not that talented" to "i'm an expert", because you are going up against all the currently unemployed game developers who already can claim "i'm an expert".

Quote:

Someone there mentioned testing, well, if you can point me some companies that might hire outside from EU and USA I would appreciate such.

You may have to move to where the buisness is. Some companies will hire from out of country, but it tends to be a big hassle. Given similar qualifications, most companies would choose to hire locally.

Quote:

About indie projects, if you find me or point me people willing to work on such, then it would be helpful, I have already tried to build up such *teams*, but Brazilians tend to be way too lazy, and it never gets out from the paper project + a few bad-modeled models, or an ugly HUD...

EDIT: I have plenty mini-projects for Indie Games, none finished, all made by me, I still can take them out of my old-useless folders and start working on it again...
And I am talking business here, not a random idea from a 15 year old dreamer, specially because I left the area for a reason, and the reason is exactly this locked up policy for newcomers. Seriously, if you take a look at my projects you might find some of them good.

Yeah. Indy development can be a hard road. You need good leadership, good management, and a willingness to treat the project like a job. And you don't need everyone on board at once either. Many projects fail because it takes too long to lay the groundwork on which everyone can see where their work is going. Some of the best games start out with grey boxes bouncing around in a room because once you can prove that is fun, you can convince people to make better models and hud (for instance DeadSpace did a tone of grey-box prototyping to get "fun" down).


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Original post by KulSeran
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I do not need it, neither dream about that like a fanatic lunatic, just got some good material, and a little experience, I wont work as a programmer or an artist, dont like the jobs, so I wont do it. Still, if I was willing to move into art, Game Industry is not an option, I would much rather work for Publicity Industry or just mess with photo editing for magazines, pays better, has larger deadlines and I have pretty good contacts within the area inside Brazil, so I would never have to move to much muscle to go after it, besides I am not that talented on such and I really hate it haha

Read this. You're going to have to figure out where you fit in, and change your attitude from "i'm not that talented" to "i'm an expert", because you are going up against all the currently unemployed game developers who already can claim "i'm an expert".

I am not THAT talented into art, and I will repeat myself, I hate artwork or programming, simple scripting is okay, like a quest scripting or similar, but I still dont like it.

Why to you think I have changed to Marketing? My best talent is creation and:
Quote:
Original post by Nypyren
- Scripting, which is like simplified programming.
- Level design, which is like simplified 3D modelling.
- Data entry (spreadsheets, databases, text files, custom tools).
- Document writing (so programmers and artists know what you want).
- Problem solving (figuring out which of your cool ideas are technically feasible and which are not)
- Debugging (figuring out why your cool ideas just AREN'T WORKING!!)
- Endless meetings (discussing why you think your idea is better than your boss's and trying not to have him fire you)


From the list above I should just exclude the Level Design, I have no patience to train it for no reason, would only dedicate my time on that if I had a shot to kick in or just being inside already...

Publicity ends up into creation areas, just like Games, and equally, you need to get your hands dirt first, but getting the hands dirt is way more interesting and less boring for me then programming or art or whatever, and that is the main reason for my life choices, I wont fuck myself up just because some bureaucratic shit, still I have my incomplete GDDs here, the one I have quoted before almost complete, a small portfolio and some experience within Game Development, just wanted to try a shot.

Quote:

Quote:

Someone there mentioned testing, well, if you can point me some companies that might hire outside from EU and USA I would appreciate such.

You may have to move to where the buisness is. Some companies will hire from out of country, but it tends to be a big hassle. Given similar qualifications, most companies would choose to hire locally.


Wish ti was that easy, have you ever tried to get yourself a open visa to work specially if you come from Brazil? Besides, with their reasons(I really agree with them at most), many people just treat Brazilians as crap, and I wont get my head down for no reason...
Testing games isnt something you must be at the company to do, and I am looking for a half-time job so I can keep studying...

Quote:

Quote:

About indie projects, if you find me or point me people willing to work on such, then it would be helpful, I have already tried to build up such *teams*, but Brazilians tend to be way too lazy, and it never gets out from the paper project + a few bad-modeled models, or an ugly HUD...

EDIT: I have plenty mini-projects for Indie Games, none finished, all made by me, I still can take them out of my old-useless folders and start working on it again...
And I am talking business here, not a random idea from a 15 year old dreamer, specially because I left the area for a reason, and the reason is exactly this locked up policy for newcomers. Seriously, if you take a look at my projects you might find some of them good.

Yeah. Indy development can be a hard road. You need good leadership, good management, and a willingness to treat the project like a job. And you don't need everyone on board at once either. Many projects fail because it takes too long to lay the groundwork on which everyone can see where their work is going. Some of the best games start out with grey boxes bouncing around in a room because once you can prove that is fun, you can convince people to make better models and hud (for instance DeadSpace did a tone of grey-box prototyping to get "fun" down).


Management and leadership arent problems, the real problem is getting people to help you out with your project, or taking it seriously, here in Brazil people tend to simply leave it with no reason or just keep bullshitting you with excuses, and that gives you only headaches and ends up like all my projects did so far...

I understand your point, but I have heard all this bullshit before, and I see that even trying to ask for help isnt a functional path, specially trying to talk some reason into Game Companies, most Mainstream Games released on the past few years are a freaking crap, those does not worth the money that players are spending on them, many companies started to get this DLC policy to explore even more the consumers, and I am afraid that, and I hope it does not happen, the game industry is going into a hole... Probably the main reason for all these bad games are the QAs and those expert programmers/artists GDs that are incompetent to create good games... Getting the job done way of choosing employees isnt what you need to get a good end product, and worse, the great majority of games are being released before they are even finished, I mean, what the fuck?
I just want to drag some attention into this: If they are releasing unfinished games, how the hell you have to balls to tell me that they only hire people who can get the job done? It isnt a job done, it is a incomplete job, and a crap end product... Think about it.

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Original post by xdj1nn
1. I just want to get contact with them... at least point me some ways for such
2. Someone there mentioned testing, well, if you can point me some companies that might hire outside from EU and USA I would appreciate such.

1. My article 21 tells you how to do that. http://www.sloperama.com/advice/lesson21.htm - and you can use Wikipedia to look up video game publishers.
2. Use Wikipedia to look up video game publishers and developers, use GameDevMap and GameIndustryMap to find out where they're located. You have to live near the company before they will hire you or even interview you. Read my articles 27 and 24 and 5.

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Original post by xdj1nn
I am not THAT talented into art, and I will repeat myself, I hate artwork or programming, simple scripting is okay, like a quest scripting or similar, but I still dont like it.

Why to you think I have changed to Marketing? My best talent is creation and:
...
From the list above I should just exclude the Level Design, I have no patience to train it for no reason, would only dedicate my time on that if I had a shot to kick in or just being inside already...
...
Publicity ends up into creation areas, just like Games, and equally, you need to get your hands dirt first, but getting the hands dirt is way more interesting and less boring for me then programming or art or whatever, and that is the main reason for my life choices, I wont fuck myself up just because some bureaucratic shit, still I have my incomplete GDDs here, the one I have quoted before almost complete, a small portfolio and some experience within Game Development, just wanted to try a shot.

All I was saying is that places aren't going to hire you unless you make yourself look like an expert at something.

Quote:

Wish ti was that easy, have you ever tried to get yourself a open visa to work specially if you come from Brazil? Besides, with their reasons(I really agree with them at most), many people just treat Brazilians as crap, and I wont get my head down for no reason...

Yeah. Exactly. I worked with someone who got to our company through a work visa from Australia. It was a pain in the ass for him, and us. He eventually quit and went to work someplace else, but the work visa got invalidated in the process, and he couldn't actually work. It helps to just be a citizen of the country where you are trying to get the job. If you can't find something in Brazil, you're going to either have to get the work visa, or move and get citizenship somewhere else.

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Testing games isnt something you must be at the company to do, and I am looking for a half-time job so I can keep studying...

Almost totally incorrect. Any console game is going to have to be tested on site, or at the publisher's testing facilities. The test kits for the games are owned by the different console manufactures and their associated publisher, testing facilities, and licensed developers. As far as a PC game, you'd have a slightly better chance cause anyone could run the game, but you would still likely have the same restrictions due to legal paperwork. Companies protect their IPs, and thus the software will be restricted to only the people who need to run it. That again means only the publisher, publisher's testers, and the game company itself. Some PC games do release their games on open beta testing and the like, but you aren't likely to get payed for that.

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I understand your point, but I have heard all this bullshit before, and I see that even trying to ask for help isnt a functional path, specially trying to talk some reason into Game Companies, most Mainstream Games released on the past few years are a freaking crap, those does not worth the money that players are spending on them

Doesn't really matter. The only way you can speak out is to not purchase the games. For every purchase they get, it validates that they went down the right path.

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many companies started to get this DLC policy to explore even more the consumers, and I am afraid that, and I hope it does not happen, the game industry is going into a hole...

Could be, but DLC is a huge market. People would rather spend 2$ here, and 4$ there for a total of 200$ a month than make a single 60$ purchase on a new title. It just comes down to the perception of value for the customer. I know tones of people who've spent more money on Rock Band dlc in the past two years than they have on regular music in the past ten years.

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Probably the main reason for all these bad games are the QAs and those expert programmers/artists GDs that are incompetent to create good games...

That's harsh! Sure, QA could be to blame for the massive number of bugs some games have. But look at console titles. Even with all their new-fangled patching the original releases are still 99% working because the QA on a console game requires it to be. As to the incompetence, there are an equally large number of skilled people in all those fields producing AAA tiles every year.

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Getting the job done way of choosing employees isnt what you need to get a good end product,

That goes for any field. But legendary experts are out of most company price ranges, as are just experts. But a few novices can pump out a lot of decent to good work on the cheap.

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and worse, the great majority of games are being released before they are even finished, I mean, what the fuck?
I just want to drag some attention into this: If they are releasing unfinished games, how the hell you have to balls to tell me that they only hire people who can get the job done? It isnt a job done, it is a incomplete job, and a crap end product... Think about it.

First off, what EXACTLY do you mean by "incomplete". One of the hardest jobs a game developer (or service/application/widget/etc. creator) has to face is figuring out how someone else will view their product. You may put something in the game only to find out that everyone outside the company finds it too hard / easy / confusing / objectionable. You may put stuff in the game you think is complete, but it leaves others with the feeling that you didn't quite put enough work into it. As far as "buggy" games, I'd agree, most games feature too many things to do and not enough testing of all the interactions the player might choose, leading to bugs and crashes.

Secondly, games are often released before they are finished because that is the only choice. You only have specific windows to release the game in. There are only a few places like Blizzard that can afford to release a game like Starcraft 2 whenever they feel like it. Most places get the choice to release just before christmas or have their company fold. So they polish up what they can and release their game in the best condition they can get it in the time they have.

Thirdly, the best condition you can release a game in isn't always the game you started out to make. There is a lot of iteration on what makes your game fun, challenging, and rewarding. And sometimes, you get the feedback for that really late in the process, leaving your precious little time to redo things to make it work.

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I loved to discuss this with ya, we might continue it, but I guess my question has being answered.

I can give you a few examples and you might understand what I mean: the recently released Mafia II - obvious case of wiping out at least 75% of the game content right before the release, maybe for DLC proposes, but the game costs $60.00 and is one of the shortest games I have ever seeing on the AAA market. Also the in-game dialogs and missions show up that something is missing in it, gives away that they just took out that content, also, all the advertising and promo videos have being showing a completely different game, and the only feed for costumers they gave was into their forums saying that they were just taking everything out from the game. Separated exclusive, but essential, features for specific platforms, and etcetera. In resume, I would never hire their GD for anything then cleaning my floor and bringing me some coffee, would never work for such company and would even break the jaws of the guys who got those ideas...

Age of Conan - MMO, ok, usually MMOs are based mostly on patches, but I mean, they promised a Open World, made a lot of advertising showing a mostly complete MMO, having most of the required content by MMO Players, bumped a insanely heavy graphic and launched, a Instanced MMO(not open World), with all promised features that made ppl actually buy their pre-purchases not working properly, even the pvp system wasnt working at first, bugged graphics and obvious incomplete quests during the gameplay, besides lack of quests for certain in-game levels(mid-level characters would need to grind to lvl up). Granting the nickname Failcom for the games Company...

And the list continue, I can take a look at the last released games and criticize them here, also review some of the games I have actually played in the last few years, and most of them just fit into this classification of incomplete, but I guess I have given my point already, if you want I can try to explain it more precisely and giving some extra examples.

I dont know what make them fucked up their own projects, I just know that I am noting all the companies and GDs names into a list, so I can always remember who are the worst ones, the top one in my list is EA, they are so focused on making money that most of their games are a crap, still, they have a few great ones, maybe it is fault of the comapanys size.

Back into the topic: Thanks for the answers and the attention, I liked here I might stay and maybe someday search for some help with my indie projects, so far I have seeing that the Game Industry is a bureaucratic and a locked up area, so I guess I will have to content with Publicity and will just throw those GDDs of mine into the trash can ;)

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Original post by xdj1nn
Back into the topic: Thanks for the answers and the attention, I liked here I might stay and maybe someday search for some help with my indie projects, so far I have seeing that the Game Industry is a bureaucratic and a locked up area, so I guess I will have to content with Publicity and will just throw those GDDs of mine into the trash can ;)


If you really want to get a project off the ground then there is a Help Wanted section here on GameDev where plenty of people will want to work with you if your ideas are good enough. I think this is the most realistic way to get what you want:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/forum.asp?forum_id=8

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Original post by GesterX
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Original post by xdj1nn
Back into the topic: Thanks for the answers and the attention, I liked here I might stay and maybe someday search for some help with my indie projects, so far I have seeing that the Game Industry is a bureaucratic and a locked up area, so I guess I will have to content with Publicity and will just throw those GDDs of mine into the trash can ;)


If you really want to get a project off the ground then there is a Help Wanted section here on GameDev where plenty of people will want to work with you if your ideas are good enough. I think this is the most realistic way to get what you want:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/forum.asp?forum_id=8


I will try to apply to some projects there, but I wont be recruiting people until I am certain that I have got enough time for such! Thank you mate

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xdj1nn, in your future posts, please don't drop the f-bomb* anymore, okay? We prefer our conversations to be civil, and that means we don't need the profanity.

*"F-bomb" is slang for "the F word." I realize English is a second language for you, so you may not realize the impact some words can have on native speakers.

I hope this thread has been helpful for you. We haven't been trying to kill your dreams; we've just been trying to help you find a more realistic way of pursuing them.

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Original post by Tom Sloper
xdj1nn, in your future posts, please don't drop the f-bomb* anymore, okay? We prefer our conversations to be civil, and that means we don't need the profanity.

*"F-bomb" is slang for "the F word." I realize English is a second language for you, so you may not realize the impact some words can have on native speakers.

I hope this thread has been helpful for you. We haven't been trying to kill your dreams; we've just been trying to help you find a more realistic way of pursuing them.


if you could I would appreciate some tips on where I have sinned in my posts =)

One way or another I thank you for the help.

Is my English good btw? Have never received a real good critic about it before, so I would appreciate that either, despite not being your job or propose in here =)

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Original post by xdj1nn
I loved to discuss this with ya, we might continue it, but I guess my question has being answered.

I can give you a few examples and you might understand what I mean: the recently released Mafia II - obvious case of wiping out at least 75% of the game content right before the release, maybe for DLC proposes, but the game costs $60.00 and is one of the shortest games I have ever seeing on the AAA market. Also the in-game dialogs and missions show up that something is missing in it, gives away that they just took out that content, also, all the advertising and promo videos have being showing a completely different game, and the only feed for costumers they gave was into their forums saying that they were just taking everything out from the game. Separated exclusive, but essential, features for specific platforms, and etcetera. In resume, I would never hire their GD for anything then cleaning my floor and bringing me some coffee, would never work for such company and would even break the jaws of the guys who got those ideas...

Age of Conan - MMO, ok, usually MMOs are based mostly on patches, but I mean, they promised a Open World, made a lot of advertising showing a mostly complete MMO, having most of the required content by MMO Players, bumped a insanely heavy graphic and launched, a Instanced MMO(not open World), with all promised features that made ppl actually buy their pre-purchases not working properly, even the pvp system wasnt working at first, bugged graphics and obvious incomplete quests during the gameplay, besides lack of quests for certain in-game levels(mid-level characters would need to grind to lvl up). Granting the nickname Failcom for the games Company...

And the list continue, I can take a look at the last released games and criticize them here, also review some of the games I have actually played in the last few years, and most of them just fit into this classification of incomplete, but I guess I have given my point already, if you want I can try to explain it more precisely and giving some extra examples.

I dont know what make them fucked up their own projects, I just know that I am noting all the companies and GDs names into a list, so I can always remember who are the worst ones, the top one in my list is EA, they are so focused on making money that most of their games are a crap, still, they have a few great ones, maybe it is fault of the comapanys size.

Back into the topic: Thanks for the answers and the attention, I liked here I might stay and maybe someday search for some help with my indie projects, so far I have seeing that the Game Industry is a bureaucratic and a locked up area, so I guess I will have to content with Publicity and will just throw those GDDs of mine into the trash can ;)


This whole post shows how naive you are to how the process works. You seem to have the impression that the game designer is lord and master of every thing they see. Which is quite hardly the case. The publishers are the ones that have the final say on every thing. Mafia 2 may be the best game in history on paper but most publishers are worried about making enough money to pay the staff and make sure the CEO gets a bonus. Currently that means selling a bunch of DLC packs to "complete" a game. Why do you think there are so many FPS sequels? Its not because designers are lazy and can't think of anything. They sell millions of copies.

To be blunt, unless your name is Will Wright or Peter Molyneux there is very little chance a AAA game will be made exactly to your design. Heck its even possible The Sims have had things changed based on publisher input. If pure game design is what you want then sticking to self published indie games is probably where you are going to find the best luck.

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but a good GD should have enough convincing skills to change publishers minds, besides, have you seen the flame flood 2k is getting in their forums for what they have done?

It isnt being naive its being realistic, you need to have people skills at any job to do the best you can, except for custom products or those aimed for the richest people, not games case though...

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Original post by xdj1nn
but a good GD should have enough convincing skills to change publishers minds

Sorry, but no. An idea (a GDD) is not enough. Read, read, read. Start with this forum's FAQ (the small blue "View Forum FAQ" atop this page).

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To sum it up in one sentence:

No company looks for outside game designs.

It just does not happen in this industry -- When companies begin, they have an idea in mind that turns into their first product, otherwise they would not have started a game company in the first place. They either fail and go to dust, or succeed and tap into one of the other ideas they have internally. If they continue their success they staff up and eventually hire designers, but its essentially unheard of that they would seek out designs.

You're simply not going to get your game made from the outside no matter how good it sounds on paper. If you want to break into the inner circle where getting your ideas taken seriously is possible, then you're going to have to work hard at it, not just guffaw at the fact that things don't work the way you thing they should.

Pick something you're really good at -- a tangible skill related to design, say level/campagn design or "gameplay" design (gameplay features and systems, not overall game design) and try to work your way up. Doing so will display that you are organized, driven, capable, and that you understand "fun", "challenge" and "balance" in these contexts, and as all design is collaborative will allow your work to influence the overall game experience. That is how you convince a game studio that they can give you the reigns to a larger part of the game(keeping in mind that most large games have many designers -- Character design, game design, single-player design, multi-player design, sound designers, writers, etc).

Even to get your foot in the door you may have to display your skills through independent work, and that work has to be tangible -- ideas and GDDs, no matter how detailed, are not tangible. You need to be making levels or mods to existing games, or creating small scale games on your own or with a group. This in turn means that you might have to pick up some programming skills and/or graphics skills (though there are some tools which make the bar pretty low, as long as you can be reasonably technical -- I'm talking about things like Flash, modable game engines, RPGMaker-type programs, and XNA).

If you aren't willing or able to do those things to demonstrate your worth, then you will find that the game industry is going to be closed off to you.

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