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changoo

Which genre of RPG is underperforming, and why?

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changoo    100
Pretty much as the title suggests, really. Which genre, in your opinion, has the least number of quality offerings compared to poor games? What, again in your opinion, is the major factor that's largely missing from that genre?

Just a curiosity question really. I'd love to write a new game based on this research, but at the moment I simply don't have the cash to make a good job of it so this is purely for the sake of an interesting discussion.

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fr0st2k    138
my obvious choice is JRPGS. they are incredibly stale with almost no innovation whatsoever.

I do like turnbased battle system allowing for some good strategy. I also don't mind linear stories. However...linear gameplay is unacceptable. I could digress into the utter stink that was FF13, but i'll skip that.

However, its the same with nearly all titles coming out of Japan, with the exception of the Wii.

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ICUP    140
Quote:
Original post by fr0st2k
However...linear gameplay is unacceptable.
However, its the same with nearly all titles coming out of Japan, with the exception of the Wii.


I think linear gameplay is fine. It doesn't always work well, but in some games it does. Half-Life, for example. Many other single-players shooters.

Sometimes, open-ended gameplay doesn't work well. Look at Elder Scrolls: Oblivion. Lots of open space, barely populated towns, portals that are pretty much identical.

But yes, I concur that JRPGs are pretty darn boring, especially if you're not into Asian culture (i.e. you don't read manga) or are more familiar with Asian themes in games.


To the OP:

As for which genre is most underutilized in RPGs, pretty much everything that is not fantasy, sci-fi and cyberpunk.

I have some idea sketches in my head about RPGs that I was interested in making. The genres that most interested me were: western horror and modern supernatural/mystery.

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phresnel    953
Quote:
Original post by mightypigeon
Wow. Does it bother you THAT much that they asked the same question on another forum?? "cross posting" means posting the same thread in multiple sections on the *same forum*


See this.

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AngleWyrm    554
Don't be jealous of other communities. If the questions are asked many times to many different people, maybe the answers will surface.

Haven't seen enough 4x space games lately, and the thing they do wrong most often is handle the production explosion badly. Primary cause is IMO the use of a central bank system, instead of having instantiated resources that are used locally.

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phresnel    953
Quote:
Original post by AngleWyrm
Don't be jealous of other communities. If the questions are asked many times to many different people, maybe the answers will surface.


Clicky. The person posting here on gd.net is simply not the original author of these postings. Modus oeprandi: Recycle strangerss post, salt them with spam.

Also look at the number of posts he made w.r.t. to the timespan they were posted in.

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Glass2099    157
I frequent many threads like this one, and while people's responses are agressive and entertaining they are unfortunately only these two things. Comments like "JRPGs are stagnant as a whole" or "linear gameplay is unacceptable" (only saying 'cause these are the two most common phrases on these types of threads) does not advance the conversation if this can even be a valid discussion.

My most pressing complaint with this argument is no one is willing to take their generalizations about genres down to a game by game feature by feature process. A few bad features (extreme glitchiness, jarring voice acting) in a few examples of games that may only be loosely held under a genre title (compare KOTOR and Oblivion, they feel totally different for both being WRPGs) does not ruin a "genre." Similarly, one cannot generalize about a genre (and capitalize on faults of the genre, universally acknowledged or perceived) without doing so with other genres.

Here's a brief rundown of some good and bad things for particular electronic rpgs:

KOTOR: Pros- a story that feels not of the everyday person in the Star Wars Galaxy, or otherwise awesome destiny is nigh omnipresent. The dialoge tree was superbly done with responses that anyway I chose made for a pretty engaging and sympathetic character. Its plot twist I sware was so awesome the force's power could not compare to it (you know, 'cause the "ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to..."). The final one-on-one battle and the dark-side ending cutscene.
Cons- the battles could be boring as it was basically a click on enemy to make your guy go over to attack it system in console menu form. There were some pretty annoying glitches when I would que combat options only to have them disappear just before executing them or when I had to take the reins of my AI party members because they were running into obstructions or blocking me from movement, or the number of chest glitches, or the epileptic shaking of my character in many cutscenes.

Final Fantasy VI: Pros- 2-d art that captured my imagination. A villain that is just as synonymous with the lust for the power of god-hood as any other villain of any media I have ever heard of, and he is never dull or much for gloating so much cracking jokes about killing everything and in the end a deeply disturbing lament on life's futility (when I first read about FF6, hearing about Kefka gradually incorporating more and more Esper magic into his form and then going all out with absorbing the power of three gods at once and beginning armegeddon just sounded so much more diabolicle than anything I had ever heard of). Battles flow nicely with at least one unique and useful ability for each character and and tons of neat effects can be applied early on with the equiping of relic items. Like KOTOR, the characters were sympathetic and knew how to make me smile every now and then. Getting all the magic spells for each of my characters is fairly attainable, so grinding did not feel as monotonous with a few new spells every 100 AP and an awesome summon for each of my party members.
Cons: Sometimes battles feel lacking with enemies only being still pictures. Though I did not mind the game being a mild challenge, the Quick and Ultima magics are way too exploitable and overpowered. Sometimes, I wish there wasn't a normal attack, as it tends to become a duty-free crutch that make battles feel less exciting.

On Morrowind and Oblivion: I see the merrits of having a do anything world with deep lore-filled history books. What kept me from getting far in Morrowind was maybe just knit-picky stuff like wooden walking, database-like talking, the drab color scheme, awkward combat animations, and no idea what my character's purpose was for the game (I could not keep up my enthusiasm when my character couldn't move smoothly in the world (the wall of stats didn't help either), and I am not enough into fantasy to appreciate fictional lore in lengthly historical form. Oblivion was much better with smooth charcter action, but I still had a disconnect from the characters and high medieval fantasy in general. Also, watching my brother play these two games didn't make me want to play any farther, either.

Right now I am playing a "JRPG" called "Live-A-Live" that got purely because I thought the plot twist was so "out of nowhere awesome" that I had to play to see its execution myself. So far, the little chapters the game is divided into, like Mega Man levels, are fun as each is a different era and theme of time (old west, caveman, ninja, homage to Katsuhiro Otomo's epic "Akira," homage to "2001: A Space Oddysey," etc.) with a certain game-genre twist to the game's consistent turn and grid-based battles (eg. having your game world be a fighting game oponent selection screen, the medieval era chapter is the only one with traditional rpg random encounters, etc.) The game is undeniably simple with HP being the only stat that really matters and no limit on combat options other than status effects,charge time, and what parts of the grid the attcks target, which makes the game plenty challenging. Por use of SNES graphics, adult themes and language, and the fact that you must download it with a translation patch may keep many from this game.

If you manage to pick up on this after the wall of text, my core message is that we, the game-design interested community, should urge greater inrospection for individual games without generalization that distorts perceptions of game experiences and keeps many on the track of improve, improve, improve or "we can't take risks with commercial success, esspecially in this economy" mentalities that are often accompanied by disheartening atisocialism and apathy (at least in the case of forum threads and press releases). Let us talk about creating increased personal enjoyment in each individual new game coming out (or maybe ones that we just recently came across) instead of us essentially making games into a eugenics game of genres.

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phresnel    953
Quote:
Original post by Glass2099
...


Quote:
Original post by phresnel
Quote:
Original post by AngleWyrm
Don't be jealous of other communities. If the questions are asked many times to many different people, maybe the answers will surface.


Clicky. The person posting here on gd.net is simply not the original author of these postings. Modus oeprandi: Recycle strangerss post, salt them with spam.

Also look at the number of posts he made w.r.t. to the timespan they were posted in.


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jbadams    25712
Quote:
Original post by phresnel
[...]


You know, in spite of the fact that the OP in this thread was plagiarised and only posted in order to spread spam links, the original post was on topic for this forum, and some of the proceeding replies were the makings on an interesting discussion - we left these posts open rather than closing or deleting them when we banned the spammer for a reason.

It's getting a little too messy now though, so topic closed. Anyone who wants to continue the on-topic discussion please start a new thread referencing this one.

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