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aersixb9

Map Makers vs. Players

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aersixb9    57
I think a neat game would be one where players make game maps, possibly in 2D (i'm specifically thinking of the xna starter kit 'platformer 2d', although 3d would work too) where players build game maps using simple tools and some limitations, with the goal of making a challenging but winnable map. Players then automatically download new maps, and attempt to win at them, possibly with 1 life attempt and maps tending to be shorter. The player would get points for winning the map, and the map maker would get points for killing the player, and also possibly with an additional player rating system after the maps, something like 1-10 stars on map quality, although tracked seperately from difficulty. Players could potentially level up in both playing and mapmaking, with higher level players having cooler abilities, and higher level mapmakers having access to more map pieces, monsters, and maybe more AI subroutines and other logical options.

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Acharis    5979
Players do not want to make games/maps, they want to play them. It is very difficult to comprehend for us, since we love do such things. But we are rare spieces, in reality there are very few mapmakers and such.

Plenty of players enjoy creating stuff, but rarely in the same form we do.

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jbadams    25712
Quote:
Original post by Acharis
Players do not want to make games/maps, they want to play them. It is very difficult to comprehend for us, since we love do such things. But we are rare spieces, in reality there are very few mapmakers and such.

Plenty of players enjoy creating stuff, but rarely in the same form we do.
Dungeon Keeper (,it's sequel), Evil Genius and Dwarf Fortress would seem to suggest otherwise, although in these cases the experience is usually single-player rather than having your maps played by other players.

I think the concept has some merit if implemented correctly, although I'm not sure that the scoring system suggested in the original post would work out very well. People do like to plan things out/set things up and then see their plans come to fruition, and I think appealing to that instinct would be the way to make such a game succesful.

I would agree that most players probably wouldn't be overly interested in creating maps in anything resembling a traditional editor - the process of creating a map has to be turned into an entertaining experience in it's own right, with challenges and rewards presented to players during map construction.

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jbadams    25712
Quote:
Original post by aersixb9
Players could potentially level up in both playing and mapmaking, with higher level players having cooler abilities, and higher level mapmakers having access to more map pieces, monsters, and maybe more AI subroutines and other logical options.
I see a potential problem here: if map-makers start off with limited options available then their maps won't be very interesting - how do we get players to play them? We could force lower-level (or just all) players to play lower-level maps, but then the players will probably dismiss the game as boring and give it up, depriving the map-makers of a reason to create.

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sprite_hound    461
Sounds awesome. Personally I'd love to see this, especially with the online leader-boards and an ability to upload maps for other players to try and rate.

I'm not sure you do need to worry about giving rewards during map creation. I imagine that creating a highly rated and popular map would be good motivation for the map making. If you make the player complete their own map before they can upload it, that should verify that it works, and provide a base time (if you wanted to go for speed to complete, rather than percentage of objectives or something?)

What map types are you going for (mazes, puzzles, race, both)? what type of objectives would the player have to do to finish (collect things, get somewhere specific, either?) Would you allow two player (either cooperative, or race) maps?

(A fair amount of this post takes ideas from games I played years ago: Castle Harenae (link 1 link 2) and Super Snail)

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LorenzoGatti    4449
I think making maps and running them should be tied very closely, in order to avoid the split between map makers and proper players. Two ideas:

- A multiplayer combat game can be played on an improvised map, letting players experiment iteratively to find fun maps together. Naturally, the game must be quick and map making must be simple and even quicker.

I'm thinking of something like Bomberman: game length is right, map making is very simple (placing wall and corridor blocks in a grid), maps are small and almost any layout is valid, and there can even be some computer assistance (drawing the map automatically mirrored for fairness).

- An attack & defense game might simply let players spend the loot they earn attacking someone else's fortress on upgrading their own fortress.

For example, in a Dungeon Keeper-like multiplayer game a player could take his time to build a dungeon (containing a required minimum amount of treasure to steal) and publish it in the collective "dungeon directory", and control a party of adventurers raiding an instance of a dungeon of his choice to obtain money and equipment; adventurers can be disposable instances of standard teams of heroes.

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