• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

kirkd

Not game oriented!!

18 posts in this topic

OK, this is truly the wrong place to ask this, but I had to find some like minded folk to tell me I''m an idiot or I''m right. While listening one of those call in car shows on the radio, a lawyer asked the question, "Do daytime running lights cause my gas mileage to go down?" I agree completely - stupid question. Anyways, the answer from the hosts was that it could only cause such a negligible decrease that you would not even be able to compute it reliably. But, is this right? Would daytime running lights have ANY impact on MPG performance? My argument is that an increased expenditure of electricity does not translate into an increased load placed upon the alternator. Yes, the electricity produced by the alternator will be used to displace the drain on the battery by the running lights, but there is effectively zero increase in drag as induced by the alternator. I welcome all comments. Actually, I just want people to tell me I''m right. 8^) -Kirk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When you need useless information, go to the right place:

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mradiomileage.html

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the link!!

My mistake was to assume that an increase in demand for electricity increased the actual load on the alternator. I''m surprised to hear that it free-wheels in the absence of electrical demands.

-Kirk






0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by kirkd
OK, this is truly the wrong place to ask this, but I had to find some like minded folk to tell me I''m an idiot or I''m right.

While listening one of those call in car shows on the radio, a lawyer asked the question, "Do daytime running lights cause my gas mileage to go down?" I agree completely - stupid question.

Anyways, the answer from the hosts was that it could only cause such a negligible decrease that you would not even be able to compute it reliably.



If I am not wrong its a coil which takes care of the headlights and horn, not the petrol. If you start the car with the lights on, chances are you will burn the coil. It shouldn''t have any effect in gas usage. I doub''t anyone would design a vehicle to use gas to run the lights. IMHO that would be a very bad design.

Regarding work done - A flywheel stores energy which reduces the work done.

quote:
Original post by kirkd
But, is this right? Would daytime running lights have ANY impact on MPG performance? My argument is that an increased expenditure of electricity does not translate into an increased load placed upon the alternator. Yes, the electricity produced by the alternator will be used to displace the drain on the battery by the running lights, but there is effectively zero increase in drag as induced by the alternator.



Surely the battery has to recharged. From my understanding in my years of mechanical engineering the chances of battery of going down will increase if you start the engine without switching lights off.



Lot more is there to working of a car than whats there on that site :-).
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the true essence of the question is, "Does electrical drain while the car is running translate into increased gas usage." Again, if an increased electical demand leads to an increased physical load on the alternator, the answer is yes. I didn''t think it mattered. I assumed (wrongly, apparently) that the alternator had a constant load applied and the regulator controled whether the generated electricity was applied to the battery or wasted.

-Kirk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why should a regulator do that? Have you ever seen a huge cooler with a dummyload below your bonnet? This would only increase the danger of burning your car! Well, however, I can only guarantee that this isn''t the case in German cars, but however, American car technology is said to be inferior...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by kirkd
OK, this is truly the wrong place to ask this, but I had to find some like minded folk to tell me I''m an idiot or I''m right.

While listening one of those call in car shows on the radio, a lawyer asked the question, "Do daytime running lights cause my gas mileage to go down?" I agree completely - stupid question.

Anyways, the answer from the hosts was that it could only cause such a negligible decrease that you would not even be able to compute it reliably.

But, is this right? Would daytime running lights have ANY impact on MPG performance? My argument is that an increased expenditure of electricity does not translate into an increased load placed upon the alternator. Yes, the electricity produced by the alternator will be used to displace the drain on the battery by the running lights, but there is effectively zero increase in drag as induced by the alternator.

I welcome all comments. Actually, I just want people to tell me I''m right. 8^)

-Kirk


As long as the coil gets enough voltage to produce the spark need to burn the gas. I don''t see how daytime running light could effect gas miliage unless they draw an abnormal amount current.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I understand it, most cars are actually maxing out the alternator during the first 20 to 30 minutes of driving just to recharge drain caused by /starting/ the car. One of several reasons people should walk if they''re only going to be driving 3-5 miles.

Anyways, a friend of mine has a digital miles-per-gallon display in his car that updates every second or so. Turning the headlights on and off didn''t produce any measurable change.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WTF does it matter man?

This topic is a waste of time, money, bandwidth, energy, power, disk space, ...
even this reply isn''t even worth it!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually, if your alternator is in good condition, it only takes 3-5 minutes to recharge a cold cranked battery. I drive nearly EVERYWHERE because where I live it is 110 degrees(F) a huge chunk of the year.

Technically, using your lights DOES lower milage due to the extra load from the engine turning the alternator. But it is so miniscule that it really does not matter. Using your Air Conditioning dwarfs headlight power consumption - shut off your AC first...

My bits,
Landsknecht

PS - Inferior auto technology??? Come on - we burn dinosaurs just as good as you...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yupp, but you need twice as much dinosaurs to run your cars...

Beside it I definitively agree to what you were saying Landsknecht!

BTW, ''Landsknecht doesn''t sound very english...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An alternator is a generator. It takes rotational mechanical energy produced by the engine, and turns a set of magnets that induce an electrical current in a coil of wires. The electrical current is potential energy, which can be used for a number of things. The primary reason for an alternator is to recharge the battery (which stores this electrical energy in the form of a chemical reaction). Now, if the battery is fully charged, then this potential energy goes to waste as heat. If the lights are on, then it will go to the lights, and some of the potential energy will be sent through a high-ohm resistor that heats up and emits light, draining some of this potential energy. If the amount of potential energy consumed by the lights is less than the amount of potential energy being produced by the alternator, then there is no increased load, and therefore no extra fuel consumed because of conservation of energy. If instead the air conditioner is on, which consumes more potential energy than is usually supplied by the alternator, then you have an increased load, and more fuel is consumed.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My input on this is:


Screw that, drive a bike. I dont know how you guys like to debate on car energy, but I have enough trouble debating my 12 times tables. So I will just get the heck outta here.

"I''''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''''Urden
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TANSTAAFL,

So we''re back to the original question. Does increased electrical demand lead to increased load on the alternator? That is the fundamental quesion. Obviously the air conditioner has other issues including running the compressor unit which imposes a significant load and decreases fuel efficiency. But, something as simple as the radio, the lights, etc - is there any increased load?

TM: Not interested? Don''t read.


-Kirk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TANSTAAFL, this is true for the old DC alternators, but nowadays, maybe not in the USA , cars have a three-phase current alternator that uses several static coils and one rotating anchor to produce electricity. This way you don''t need any permanent magnets and the control can regulate the power output from zero to max power. This way you don''t need any resistor burning your energy overproduction, cause there is none.
BTW such a resistor would emit very little to no light, but mostly heat (yea you could call this also light...).
And yes, switching on the lights will drain more power from your cars power net -> regulator increases alternators power-production -> alternator needs more mechanical energy -> motor needs more gas in order to keep its RPM/speed.
Hope this was understandable

Yesterday we still stood at the verge of the abyss,
today we''re a step onward!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by kirkd
TANSTAAFL,

So we're back to the original question. Does increased electrical demand lead to increased load on the alternator? That is the fundamental quesion. Obviously the air conditioner has other issues including running the compressor unit which imposes a significant load and decreases fuel efficiency. But, something as simple as the radio, the lights, etc - is there any increased load?

TM: Not interested? Don't read.


-Kirk


Well being able to switch on the headlight without running the engine answer this question ??

This is tough to explain - In my car I can put in the key and give a turn. That puts a light on - then i can switch on any lights. When I turn the key a little more the actual ignition take place. So headlights and gas don't come into the contact at all. Its always the battery and headlight. So there is no load from the headlight on the motor I suppose thats how its to be said so there should be literally no effect on mileage due to headlights.





Edited by - flame_warrior on August 30, 2001 4:30:12 PM
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And where is the power from the battery from? Yes right from the alternator which is attached to the motor!
And what difference does it make when the lights are directly attached to the battery? The alternator is attached to the battery too, so it DOES affect the load on the alternator and by this also the milage!


Yesterday we still stood at the verge of the abyss,
today we''re a step onward!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites