Hello,

I have a question about the elements used in RPG's. I want the community's opinion how a system wich wil use a number of elements that are used in magic attack's and there strength's and weaknesses to eachother

Now some info for the game i am planning to design

It wil be much like the anime serie's Naruto where there are charchers that use Magic attacks and sword combat and it is pretty fast paced. Also there can be made combination of magik attack for example Earth + Water = mud or Water + wind = Ice

My system does not need's to be balanced I want it to represent reality as much as possible. The most used system i know is this one

Usually games use four elements.

Fire, Water, Wind and Earth.

Water > Fire > Wind > Earth > Water

Also i am unsure wich elements wil be in it i would like to see electricity

Know my problem with this system is that i want it to be logical

I could say fire beats water it evaporates it.
I could say water beats fire it extinguishe's it

Could you guys make a system with elements that is logical it doesnt have to be balanced so a fire mage could have a advantage over all the other mages


Sorry for my ingelish i dont have the enlish language installed on this school computer

Quote:Original post by Kahiko
I want it to represent reality as much as possible

Then you should go with 118 elements and start with Hydrogen!
No, really! -Much less cliché. ;)

I have thought about that but it would not make the gameplay fun. it also requires a realiy complex game engine and i think that we do not have discovered all the elements so the game wil be work in progress as long as reality exists altough i dont know this for certain so i dont think i wil be using that system, thanks for your reply.

Firstly, forget realism to a degree. Believability is more important, IMHO.

Is your combat going to be turn-based like the Final Fantasies, or twitch-based, like Zelda? If it's the former, you could use a system where you apply the elements in different amounts ( see Bayonettas item creation system for an example of this ). Not sure how you might go about it in real-time combat.

As for strengths and weaknesses, you can't really say that one is stronger than another. As you've already pointed out, fire can evaporate water, just as water can douse fire. You often find buckets of sand at camp sites, which are used for the same purpose, and have you tried keeping a match lit on a windy day? I think the problem with all of these is the amounts. Any element ( when talking about the four magical/greek elements ) can neutralize any of the others as long as there is more of it.

If you use the system above, you could create electricity by, say, combining an amount of fire with an amount of air. You could create some sort of steam attack by combining fire and water, create lava by combining fire and earth, and so on. How you implement this is up to you, but I hope this at least helps get those creative juices flowing

Hmm the game would not be turne based more like WOW. I want it to be strategical thats the first priority. i am realy confused about this idea whenever i think about it i just stop thinking and my mind stops

Mud = Water + earth

Wood = Water + earth

Steam = Water + Fire

Ice = Water + Wind

Metal = Earth + Fire

Magnetic = Metal + electric

the list can go on for ever... i wil need to think realy good about this because it is like the base of the game

I was thinking of mayby instead using fire water etc... making Coldness Heat Solid's Liquid's Gasse's So they can manipulate the objects not control them example

So basicly first you wil can choose betwean

COLD

HEAT

Then you can choose between

SOID'S

LIQUID'S

GASSE'S

An example scenario could be a Charcher named BOB

BOB uses COLD LIQUIDS

He carrys water and trows it over his enemt than using his power he freezes it so his enemy cant move. then he stabs his opponent to death while not breaking a sweat because the opponent cant move

BOB 2 USES HEAT AND SOLID'S (i am no creative with names

BOB Freezes BOB2 using the above technique. if BOB would use HEAT LIQUIDS he cant unfreeze himself because the liqoud water just turned into SOLID ICE so he unfreezes himself

this idea presents some bizare outcomes to wich make it inpraticle but it can be used to creating something like it

What you need to do is abstract the system. Don't apply lables to them, like Earth, Wind, Water or Fire yet. Just give the lables like A, B C and D. Later on you can give them whatever lable you want.

One reason for this is called "Combinatorics" (yes it is a real word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorics ).

It is easier to think in terms of Combinatorics when using abstract lables.

Once you have use Combinatorics to work out how many conbinations there realy are you can then apply labels to each combination.

Quote:Could you guys make a system with elements that is logical it doesnt have to be balanced so a fire mage could have a advantage over all the other mages

The problem with systems like this is that only fire mages will be played. No other mage type will be played by the players. This means that all your work in making the other mage types will be wasted. This wasted time and effort will take away from the time and effort you could have spent in making the things your players actually use even more fun.

So, if a choice is going to be always worse than another choice, then players will not choose it. If a choice is always better than other choices, then players will always choose it.

If something is in your game that the player will never use, then it is a waste of your time, and the time of the player to disciver it is useless.

Fire

Water

Electricity

Rock

Wind

- Fire

Fire vs Water Equal eachother the fire exstinguishe's and the water evaportes and turns into steam

Fire vs selectricity because the electricity can pass trough it with greater speeds than slow moving fire
This causes the electricity to hit sooner and make the opponent lose focus of his spell

Fire vs The rock passes trough the fire resulting in the rock hitting the target and the fire hitting the caster

Fire vs Wind the wind will provide the flame with oxygen to make it burn even more

- Electricty

Electricity vs water See 1 and 2
1.Pure Water doesnt conduct electricity making the water user capable of blocking electric attacks
2.Water containing salt conducts electricity making the electricty pass trough the attack to the caster and causing
it to lose focus of the spell

Water vs Fire Equal eachother the fire exstinguishe's and the water evaportes and turns into steam

Rock vs Electricity the Rock does not conduct electricty well enoughf to pass trough it and wil block the lightning

Electricity vs Wind They will not affect eachother because the both pass trough eachother The lightning wil hit first

- Water

water vs Electricity See 1 and 2
1.Pure Water doesnt conduct electricity making the water user capable of blocking electric attacks trough attack
2.Water containing salt conducts electricity making the electricty pass trough the attack to the caster and causing
it to lose focus of the spell

Water vs Fire Equal eachother the fire exstinguishe's and the water evaportes and turns into steam

Rock vs Water The rock wil be stopped by the water

Wind vs Water the water wil collide with the Water

- Rock

Rock vs Water The rock wil be stopped by the water

Rock vs Electricity the Rock does not conduct electricty well enoughf to pass trough it and wil block the lightning

Fire vs The rock passes trough the fire resulting in the rock hitting the target and the fire hitting the caster

The wind will colide with the rock


This is the closest i can come to realistic outcomes and this basicly makes the power of the spell the factor to winning the clash of the spells

Hi,

so you found out, that your system doesn't work as simple as you wanted it to do.
Instead of "fixing" it by discarding logic and building some random circluar stuff, I d suggest you think more about how the elements interact.

Fire can beat water and water can beat fire, it depends on what is stronger. Simple as that.
Wind can beat fire, but fire wont beat wind. Here I think if the wind is stronger, the fire dies, but if the fire is stronger, its power will get amplyfied by the wind.

By thinking that way you can model a "realistic magic system" much more easily.