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yesman169

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What it entails
Okay i have been working on a game design for some time now and i have created one. Not only is this a fps but a rts, worked into a multiplayer online game.

Game Idea
Its a zombie based game, online multiplayer that allows players to take part in defending each other's forts, going on quests to save the inhabitants from destruction or for those who want complete power of the world, to command and conquer the domain and be the leader of many, against the walking dead.
There is a single player and multiplayer game mode.
Single Player
The single player aspect of it entails, that the user can either go through a campaign to get to "safety" or can barricade up, sit tight and help fellow survivors on a endless onslaught of zombie warfare.
Multiplayer
The multiplayer part is the more interesting to those gamers of games like left4dead, dead rising, i know what you are thinking reading this, it does copy everything, every zombie game has came out with. This is where you are wrong.

What makes it unique
In every other zombie killing game, you are either trapped in a building fighting to defend it, moving around to reach one goal, can only use objects that are given to you, blah blah blah, they are boring, what would be more interesting is the part i left out about my game. It allows every object to be used, period. If you pick up a piece of wood, you can hammer it to your barricade. if you find a rpg, you can mount it on your fort where ever. anything is possible. now your thinking well thats not that interesting, now think, you start off with nothing a lonely wander, you can either build a camp, from scratch, building a lean too, or you can find more survivors, build onto existing structures, or build your own. Using materials that are found in the game, wood off houses, trees that you cut down, anything is usable that is my pitch i have a site up and running right now, i have some people already signing up to join in, all i need is a engine that would fit my game and the thought from others that this is a viable game.

well i have changed the idea to a more simple game, when i get more widespread support i shall be on my way to the world of multiplayer online gaming! here is the new idea.
Game Concept



What’s the game about



The basic concept of the game is a run a gun, free roam zombie killing mayhem. four players start out in a the main part of the map; if the map is a baseball arena, the players will start out near the gates. The players do not have to pay for anything, just survive, getting highest score, the most time survived, or just plain getting the heck out of there.



Rounds



There is no set time that a round will end, instead it is totally based on how great you are with that shotgun, or any other weapon you choose, and getting the set amount of kills. After the round ends the player is transported to a screen that has the player info and stats, the player from there can level up certain ability, use blueprints to obtain special items or weapons, get some kick ass customization done to your clothes or your weapon and get right back to the action. This little siesta will allow players to take a break from the game and get a drink, quick bathroom break, go outside, or defend themselves from zombie mayhem of their own.



Items/Weapons



The item and weapon category will start out very miniscule. Items may only startout with basic clothing, but will later lead to being able to wear, kevlar, leather jackets, and other heavy apparel protecting you from the undead. Guns may only start out with two or three options, but as the game progresses, so does the complexity, and use of these weapons. The weapons range from a standard pistol, to a make shift bazooka, obtaining any of these weapons, will allow achievements to be unlocked and



Achievements



Achievements the moment that everyone has waited for to be mentioned. This game allows so many easy and difficult achievements, hand crafted from the smartest minds, these achievements will keep you playing this never ending zombie mayhem, each level holding its on deep dark secrets and every weapon expecting to be customized, the player will have the most outrageous time trying to complete them all.



Map packs and Weapons Galore



Maps and Weapons will be constantly modified and added to the game, the game will not alway have set locations for weapons making it difficult for the player to complete master the game. Weapons will be added due to the great minds that are the players, playing the game, everyones opinion matters and will be taken into account. Maps will be constantly added as well, there may be only a mall and a baseball arena, but just you wait, there will be tons more in store for everyone to be amazed with.

Sorry if this is either in the wrong section, wrote incorrectly or so on, i really wanted to get this pitch out to the dev community.

<gamedevzombies.blogspot.com>

[Edited by - yesman169 on December 21, 2010 7:56:36 AM]

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Quote:

It allows every object to be used, period. If you pick up a piece of wood, you can hammer it to your barricade. if you find a rpg, you can mount it on your fort where ever. anything is possible. now your thinking well thats not that interesting..

Well, this sounds really interesting. A game with this degree of freedom is often called sandbox game. The trouble with this kind of games is, that they are incredible difficult to create. When you analyse some of sandbox games you will see that the degree of freedom is quite limited. The degree of freedom depends a lot on visual quality of the game. Games like dwarven fortress, which have a very high degree of freedom, are in ascii, not because the game creators are lazy, but a similar game in a 3d visual stunning environment is currently not feasable (otherwise show me the proof :_) ). Other games like GTA IV have a quite high degree of freedom compared to a standard fps game, but is still far away from what you are planning to do.

Eventually the dilema is, go for visuals or go for freedom. Trying to combine both bears the risk to making an unfeasalbe game concept.


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Original post by yesman169
blah blah blah, they are boring.

Indeed. The fan bases and communities of those games really suffer from the fact that they're all dull.

Quote:
Original post by yesman169
It allows every object to be used, period. If you pick up a piece of wood, you can hammer it to your barricade. if you find a rpg, you can mount it on your fort where ever. anything is possible.

I hope you don't plan on syncing lots and polygons representing individual wooden boards between many players.
But sure, the idea is great. I had it too, I just think some abstraction could help here.
For instance, how about having premade objects, blueprints for shelters that people could place.
Each blueprint would then require a set amount of materials, which players can supply. When the requirements have been met, a shelter spawns instead, and the blueprint disappears. That would make things a bit easier.
Then, sockets for upgrade blueprints such as turrets could exist different places on shelter blueprints and such. You could do this with standard game making tools of today.

Quote:
Original post by Ashaman73
but a similar game in a 3d visual stunning environment is currently not feasable

Actually i think yesman169 is being a bit vague about the technical specifications for his design.
Take for instance if he decided to create his game on the top of GarrysMod for Source. - It would definitely be possible, even with just a few players.
But having a vast world to do this in with state-of-the art graphics and physics would be more difficult. Much more, agreed.

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How about having 'blueprints' user created?
Have a grid based editor with various materials and items that you can put together, and when it's done it tells you the materials needed. this means the player structures are still designed and put together like the player wants, but there is no massive calculations to be done. Have a few readymade ones to, for the less creative types.

Think B&K: Nuts and Bolts or... well thats all I can think of really.

EDIT: For existing structures, office blocks and such, have them all selectable. Once selected the editor comes up etc... Maybe have barricades for windows and stuff 'auto placed'. Just click the 'barricade' button and then on the windows and doors you want. Gather materials, voila!

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Original post by JamesPenny
How about having 'blueprints' user created?
Have a grid based editor with various materials and items that you can put together, and when it's done it tells you the materials needed. this means the player structures are still designed and put together like the player wants, but there is no massive calculations to be done. Have a few readymade ones to, for the less creative types.

Think B&K: Nuts and Bolts or... well thats all I can think of really.

Exactly! All the precomputing and vertex buffer creation can be performed
the moment the user saves the blueprint. Also, the blueprints could be shared with friends and eventually teammates if they work well.

...All there's left to do is integrate an >easy-to-use< editor into the game. Kapow! Now the game will take twice the time to develop!
Okay, realism aside i really think that would be a nice solution if integrated properly. Just that user created content can be both good and bad...
It's all down to the limitations and features of that editor, then.
Just give the user a simple voxel editor, that's what I'll do in my survival game.

Now let's hope the users don't create lots of tiny, phallos-shaped blueprints and spawns a lot of them, destroying the multiplayer experience.

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You guys are literally living in my mind! i would love to have you guys aboard to be artistic designers and idea makers! haha god this game has so much potential i dont mean to brag, my 3D artist is amazing! she has great 3D models, my story board people are doing great, i would love for you guys to be a part of it, right now the site is what is listed above, soon it will be moved to a more permanent site, i would love for you guys to comment, email me,etc to sign up.

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I have been watching http://worldforge.org/games/mason for years looking forward to a time when simple engine construction is ready. (There are only what, five is it or seven basic types of machine, from inclined plane through pulley to whatever?)

Are you doing it from scratch in six months or using something that already has most of the sandbox construction of things already implemented in order to accomplish such a timeframe?

Which are you building first, everything but the physicals/mechanics construction set or the construction set?

I am lazy, I just check how Mason is coming along every few years figuring until it is working I might as well not plan on using its functionality for a while yet. (There isn't a lot I could do myself to move it along, I kind of basically agree it is not as easy as one might at first blush imagine.)

There seems to always be room for more zombiemania though! Who cares if it has physics or is in ascii art or whatever, if it is zombies that is good, right?

But wait... you're bored of zombies? No that can't be right. Its zombies! Wake up and smell the rotting flesh! Eat the brains! Mmmmmmm, braaaiiiiinnnnzzzzz!

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well i have changed the idea to a more simple game, when i get more widespread support i shall be on my way to the world of multiplayer online gaming! here is the new idea.
Game Concept



What’s the game about



The basic concept of the game is a run a gun, free roam zombie killing mayhem. four players start out in a the main part of the map; if the map is a baseball arena, the players will start out near the gates. The players do not have to pay for anything, just survive, getting highest score, the most time survived, or just plain getting the heck out of there.



Rounds



There is no set time that a round will end, instead it is totally based on how great you are with that shotgun, or any other weapon you choose, and getting the set amount of kills. After the round ends the player is transported to a screen that has the player info and stats, the player from there can level up certain ability, use blueprints to obtain special items or weapons, get some kick ass customization done to your clothes or your weapon and get right back to the action. This little siesta will allow players to take a break from the game and get a drink, quick bathroom break, go outside, or defend themselves from zombie mayhem of their own.



Items/Weapons



The item and weapon category will start out very miniscule. Items may only startout with basic clothing, but will later lead to being able to wear, kevlar, leather jackets, and other heavy apparel protecting you from the undead. Guns may only start out with two or three options, but as the game progresses, so does the complexity, and use of these weapons. The weapons range from a standard pistol, to a make shift bazooka, obtaining any of these weapons, will allow achievements to be unlocked and



Achievements



Achievements the moment that everyone has waited for to be mentioned. This game allows so many easy and difficult achievements, hand crafted from the smartest minds, these achievements will keep you playing this never ending zombie mayhem, each level holding its on deep dark secrets and every weapon expecting to be customized, the player will have the most outrageous time trying to complete them all.



Map packs and Weapons Galore



Maps and Weapons will be constantly modified and added to the game, the game will not alway have set locations for weapons making it difficult for the player to complete master the game. Weapons will be added due to the great minds that are the players, playing the game, everyones opinion matters and will be taken into account. Maps will be constantly added as well, there may be only a mall and a baseball arena, but just you wait, there will be tons more in store for everyone to be amazed with.

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Sounds like something the DOOM or QUAKE engine was made for?

Maybe just hack the art to make it zombies instead of whatever monsters they have by default, then start hacking in more weapons and such and the achievements or whatever?

There might already be level editors and weapon creation editors and such already out there for something like that too.

Have you done level creation and weapon creation before, so as to have a real sense of how easy or hard such things are to do?

I really really do not like having to risk seeming discouraging but the reality tends to be that some people end up finding even really really simple stuff like making a Battle for Wesnoth scenario difficult to do let alone some of the much much more challenging things they'd like to do.

Maybe you could even plot and storyboard your game as a Battle for Wesnoth scenario to have an actual playable plotline and storyline storyboard first before worrying about getting cinematographers in to see about rendering it in ever more glorious gory detail?

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Original post by markm
Sounds like something the DOOM or QUAKE engine was made for?

Maybe just hack the art to make it zombies instead of whatever monsters they have by default, then start hacking in more weapons and such and the achievements or whatever?

There might already be level editors and weapon creation editors and such already out there for something like that too.

Have you done level creation and weapon creation before, so as to have a real sense of how easy or hard such things are to do?

I really really do not like having to risk seeming discouraging but the reality tends to be that some people end up finding even really really simple stuff like making a Battle for Wesnoth scenario difficult to do let alone some of the much much more challenging things they'd like to do.

Maybe you could even plot and storyboard your game as a Battle for Wesnoth scenario to have an actual playable plotline and storyline storyboard first before worrying about getting cinematographers in to see about rendering it in ever more glorious gory detail?


Yea i have done all of the above except work with that engine, i have made some small 2d games, never been uploaded, but yea i want to jump right into it, if anyone is willing to help, just pm and ill find something for you to do, beginner or not, i will find something. I would do the Battle for Wesnoth thing, but im really hopping to make something off this, and yea


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Wesnoth has plenty of zombiemania already, go ahead and use something different. :)

(Different from using Wesnoth I mean, not different from using zombies!)

And I only meant Wesnoth as storyboarding not as product. I'd believe in people's "ideas" for game storylines more if I saw a Wesnoth campaign of them than when they are just an idea post they haven't even enough faith in themselves to storyboard.

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Original post by markm
Wesnoth has plenty of zombiemania already, go ahead and use something different. :)

(Different from using Wesnoth I mean, not different from using zombies!)

And I only meant Wesnoth as storyboarding not as product. I'd believe in people's "ideas" for game storylines more if I saw a Wesnoth campaign of them than when they are just an idea post they haven't even enough faith in themselves to storyboard.


What would you suggest? i am using source sdk? is there anything that is that free? haha

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Re making money...

People are paying money for Wesnoth on one of the phone app store platforms.

The customers on such platforms are it seems predominantly more likely to blow a few bucks for a running game right now than they are to follow up the license notifications about what being GNU licensed gives them in the way of rights, such as the right to the source code of the port to that type of phone platform. The guy who did the port is making enough money that once he started giving some of it to the Wesnoth project hiring was able to be done to get some of the no fun to do stuff done that needed doing on the mainline project.

So it would technically be feasible to grab that source code, rename the entire program Battle for Brains (tm ;)) or whatever, gory up the GUI etc etc, toss in zombiemania campaigns, and sell it not as more campaigns for the Battle for Wesnoth engine they might (if into princes princesses dragons necromancers etc type fantasy genre) already have bought but, rather, as a whole new turn based strategy game for zombies and those who love them...

Not to mention no one has yet taken the cowboys (nor the ninjas as far as I know) from the "Internet Meme Era" and matched them up against zombies in a campaign...

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Re making money...

People are paying money for Wesnoth on one of the phone app store platforms.

The customers on such platforms are it seems predominantly more likely to blow a few bucks for a running game right now than they are to follow up the license notifications about what being GNU licensed gives them in the way of rights, such as the right to the source code of the port to that type of phone platform. The guy who did the port is making enough money that once he started giving some of it to the Wesnoth project hiring was able to be done to get some of the no fun to do stuff done that needed doing on the mainline project.

So it would technically be feasible to grab that source code, rename the entire program Battle for Brains (tm ;)) or whatever, gory up the GUI etc etc, toss in zombiemania campaigns, and sell it not as more campaigns for the Battle for Wesnoth engine they might (if into princes princesses dragons necromancers etc type fantasy genre) already have bought but, rather, as a whole new turn based strategy game for zombies and those who love them...

Not to mention no one has yet taken the cowboys (nor the ninjas as far as I know) from the "Internet Meme Era" and matched them up against zombies in a campaign...


I reallly like that idea, would you be willing to join the cause??

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I have (being zombie myself hahaha???) been up I don't know how many hours, so although I know some things that should be done as fast as possible (since some unscrupoulous commercial operator has probably already starting running with our idea between my last post and yours (if unscrupulous operators around here are as on the ball as they are on adult website developer forums, anyway)) I am kind of in ought to be sleeping mode not much competent for actually doing practical things until sleep has happened.

We need to know which phone platform Wesnoth was ported to so as to plug that into a Help Wanted template and also to compare it against the phone platform one of today's Help wanted posters wants people to develop for and can do the whole getting licensed with the app store thing as well as obtain any development kits doing phone platform compiling and such might require.

We need the compiling for that phone platform capability, however one usually does that. (Cross-platform compiler? Or what? How does one compile for that platform? Is there a free open source compiler that can do it?)

Because it is a good enough idea that programmers capable for porting Wesnoth to more different phone platforms might also be interested we want to dicker with that aforementioned poster anyway even if the current platform Wesnoth is already ported to isn't the one he is posting about, in case he might find the idea of doing the whole licensing thing with more different phone platforms something his skills suit him to and that interests him.

The Battle for Brains need not be the only genre skin we could make for the Wesnoth engine, so in luring artists into doing GNU licensed art assets such as skins we can wave carrot genre skin possibilities as possibly in the future too. (What's up, wabbit? Hahahah not quite but whatever is to stick for the artist as carrot is to wabbits, kind of idea. ("Wanna do a your favourite genre one if this works?")

More doubtless, but time is of the essence if the competition is already running with our idea... Guess I'll try on Wesnoth forums to track down what phone system that port was to... I think maybe Wesnoth was iPhone and Freeciv's port in progress is, I do recall, Android.

We need to know how much of a hack the port actually amounts to, for example did the guy have to change all the art assets to fit better on a tiny screen?

Pixel art tends to degrade badly if shrunk, so I am hoping he didn't have to do that, it'd really properly need having artists re-do them for the new size in many cases or result in shoddy sprites.

Lets remember his does sell though, so whatever he did, customers did find it buyable.

Skins for phone version though might need to be separate from those for PC (and Mac if its on the list which it likely is) version.

I do recall though that the guy did *something* to the campaigns he ported, otherwise they would not have been "ported", they would have simply run, just like on desktop/laptop machines. So we need to figure out what adjustments have to be made when moving a campaign between computer and phone type platforms.

(Someone might need to buy his port to find where he put its source, but maybe it is out in the open someplace not needing buying his app to get the source. Comparison of the campaigns in his source should show us what kinds of changes were done.)


Goal of Help Wanted will maybe be not only the direct goal of we need this this and this but also more general goal of we want to assimilate into our team anyone who otherwise might go build the same wheels in a different shop:

-------------------------------------------------------------
The Battle for YOUR genre
-------------------------------------------------------------

Name of project = The Battle for YOUR genre.

Name of team = The Battle for YOUR GENRE team.

Initial sub-project: The Battle for Brains.

The Battle for Brains is a multi-platform turn-based zombiemanic strategy game and storyboarding engine, etc, FOR _____ APP STORE phone platform, PCs running PC operating systems (the usual suspects), [and Macs? can't recall offhand].

Initial game / storyboard: Rebirth Community.

Rebirth community is a campaign for the Battle for Brains engine, the initial showcase mainline story, etc...

Team:

Engine core: The Battle for Wesnoth team, http://www.wesnoth.org/

Optional planetary engine core: The Freeciv team, http://www.freeciv.org/

(Rebirth Community is located on a planet, correct?)

Engine core port to _____: guy who ported Wesnoth to phone platform.

Gory skin for program: maybe YOU if YOU are the artist we need!

YOUR GENRE skin for program: maybe YOU if YOU are the artist we need!

EVEN MORE AWESOME gory and hapless protagonist and victim sprites than the ones we already have: maybe YOU if YOU are a sprite-artist whose work is good enough to mix with our gorgeous existing arsenal of sprites!

YOUR GENRE sprites: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

ZOMBILICIOUS STORYTELLING IMAGE PANES: maybe YOU if your art can cut the rotting flesh, uh I mean the mustard.

YOUR GENRE campaigns and storyboards: maybe YOU if you have what it takes!

ZOMBIELICIOUS, HAPLESS, HELPLESS and HEROIC portraits: maybe YOU if your art is up to the job!

YOUR GENRE portraits: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

BRAIN-EATING, soulful and soulless, haunting and rousing, etc etc music and sounds: maybe YOU if YOU can demonstrate what zombielicious sounds like!

YOUR GENRE music and sounds: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

Etc...

Rebirth Community, initially conceived as a First Person Shooter, will be storyboarded using the Battle for Brains engine, resulting in a fully playable Battle for Brains campaign.

If Rebirth Community goes onward onto an FPS engine from there, as originally conceived, then maybe YOUR GENRE campaign will be able to make that leap too if YOU have what it takes...

-------------------------------------------------------------

...Something like that, but fixed up to match template.

The actual campaign probably ought not mention the engine directly, so it can be run on any Battle for [genre] engine without something said inside the campaign referring to some differently skinned version of the engine.

Thus it can be developed as a Battle for Wesnoth campaign using normal Battle for Wesnoth tools, then run through whatever the porting of a campaign to the phone entails once it is ready.


If it does make money, a portion of the proceeds should probably be given toward the mainline Battle for Wesnoth development. Similarly quite likely a portion should be earmarked for building up the Battle for Brains arsenal of stuff useful for a fan community to build their own scenarios and campaigns for Battle for Brains. Possibly this would include forums, an add-ons server specifically for Battle for Brains add-ons, whatever.

By the way I remembered that although not precisely the actual Internet Meme cowboys since I made some adjustments such as removing their knock-back special and I did not use the entire "faction", there is a scenario featuring Blighty (as in Captain Bligh ;)) faction riflemen marines etc facing zombies in the "Mutiny in 1626" add-on.

It happened because there were no units representing brainwashed cultists running around converting people to their cult so I simply used zombies, which already naturally in Wesnoth turn what they kill into zombies, to represent the cultists running around converting people.

There are any number of people on the Wesnoth forums writing campaigns for Wesnoth who would probably drool at the prospect of publishing their campaign as an iPhone app, and the current port of Wesnoth guy hasn't even included all the "mainline" campaigns in his offering yet let alone even hinted at providing an outlet for all that enthusiasm.

So there might well be, just from the Wesnoth forums, plenty of demand for publish their campaign on a phone platform services.

Naturally, "some" (hahahaha) of them won't have a budget... ;) :)

But hey, who knows, maybe some of them will...

Most of them tend to be writing for the Wesnoth world, "Irdya", even if their stories of Irdya never get adopted into the "mainline" timeline of Irdya.

It would probably be good to flesh out more about the "mainline" campaign(s) of Battle for Brains. For example would a campaign featuring a necromancer who conjures zombies fit? How about if it also featured knights and a princess?

Etc., because the hope of getting their campaign onto the iPhone by getting it included in the Battle for Brains' mainline might attract people who might not be looking to write stuff that more obviously fits into the same universe let alone the same timeline as Rebirth Community.

A lure toward setting up a budget and paying people to do stuff could be that of becoming the mainline campaign of a whole new genre in the Battle for [genre] series, so anything that doesn't fit Battle for Brains we can suggest "they" try to find someone interested in putting together a budget and having the Battle for YOUR GENRE team set them up as mainline in yet another Battle for [genre] engine... not just any someone mind you, but someone who, once being the mainline campaign of the "new" engine, will be willing to accept "their" campaign as also being "mainline" in that [genre].

***Note check whether the current port lets people play "multiplayer" via the existing Wesnoth multiplayer server. Suppose it turns out that people are buying his for that capability not for the campaigns?!?! We'd have to run a multiplayer server. Who would pay hosting and bandwidth for that and why would they do so?



[Edited by - markm on December 20, 2010 9:33:19 PM]

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Original post by markm
I have (being zombie myself hahaha???) been up I don't know how many hours, so although I know some things that should be done as fast as possible (since some unscrupoulous commercial operator has probably already starting running with our idea between my last post and yours (if unscrupulous operators around here are as on the ball as they are on adult website developer forums, anyway)) I am kind of in ought to be sleeping mode not much competent for actually doing practical things until sleep has happened.

We need to know which phone platform Wesnoth was ported to so as to plug that into a Help Wanted template and also to compare it against the phone platform one of today's Help wanted posters wants people to develop for and can do the whole getting licensed with the app store thing as well as obtain any development kits doing phone platform compiling and such might require.

We need the compiling for that phone platform capability, however one usually does that. (Cross-platform compiler? Or what? How does one compile for that platform? Is there a free open source compiler that can do it?)

Because it is a good enough idea that programmers capable for porting Wesnoth to more different phone platforms might also be interested we want to dicker with that aforementioned poster anyway even if the current platform Wesnoth is already ported to isn't the one he is posting about, in case he might find the idea of doing the whole licensing thing with more different phone platforms something his skills suit him to and that interests him.

The Battle for Brains need not be the only genre skin we could make for the Wesnoth engine, so in luring artists into doing GNU licensed art assets such as skins we can wave carrot genre skin possibilities as possibly in the future too. (What's up, wabbit? Hahahah not quite but whatever is to stick for the artist as carrot is to wabbits, kind of idea. ("Wanna do a your favourite genre one if this works?")

More doubtless, but time is of the essence if the competition is already running with our idea... Guess I'll try on Wesnoth forums to track down what phone system that port was to... I think maybe Wesnoth was iPhone and Freeciv's port in progress is, I do recall, Android.

We need to know how much of a hack the port actually amounts to, for example did the guy have to change all the art assets to fit better on a tiny screen?

Pixel art tends to degrade badly if shrunk, so I am hoping he didn't have to do that, it'd really properly need having artists re-do them for the new size in many cases or result in shoddy sprites.

Lets remember his does sell though, so whatever he did, customers did find it buyable.

Skins for phone version though might need to be separate from those for PC (and Mac if its on the list which it likely is) version.

I do recall though that the guy did *something* to the campaigns he ported, otherwise they would not have been "ported", they would have simply run, just like on desktop/laptop machines. So we need to figure out what adjustments have to be made when moving a campaign between computer and phone type platforms.

(Someone might need to buy his port to find where he put its source, but maybe it is out in the open someplace not needing buying his app to get the source. Comparison of the campaigns in his source should show us what kinds of changes were done.)


Goal of Help Wanted will maybe be not only the direct goal of we need this this and this but also more general goal of we want to assimilate into our team anyone who otherwise might go build the same wheels in a different shop:

-------------------------------------------------------------
The Battle for YOUR genre
-------------------------------------------------------------

Name of project = The Battle for YOUR genre.

Name of team = The Battle for YOUR GENRE team.

Initial sub-project: The Battle for Brains.

The Battle for Brains is a multi-platform turn-based zombiemanic strategy game and storyboarding engine, etc, FOR _____ APP STORE phone platform, PCs running PC operating systems (the usual suspects), [and Macs? can't recall offhand].

Initial game / storyboard: Rebirth Community.

Rebirth community is a campaign for the Battle for Brains engine, the initial showcase mainline story, etc...

Team:

Engine core: The Battle for Wesnoth team, http://www.wesnoth.org/

Optional planetary engine core: The Freeciv team, http://www.freeciv.org/

(Rebirth Community is located on a planet, correct?)

Engine core port to _____: guy who ported Wesnoth to phone platform.

Gory skin for program: maybe YOU if YOU are the artist we need!

YOUR GENRE skin for program: maybe YOU if YOU are the artist we need!

EVEN MORE AWESOME gory and hapless protagonist and victim sprites than the ones we already have: maybe YOU if YOU are a sprite-artist whose work is good enough to mix with our gorgeous existing arsenal of sprites!

YOUR GENRE sprites: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

ZOMBILICIOUS STORYTELLING IMAGE PANES: maybe YOU if your art can cut the rotting flesh, uh I mean the mustard.

YOUR GENRE campaigns and storyboards: maybe YOU if you have what it takes!

ZOMBIELICIOUS, HAPLESS, HELPLESS and HEROIC portraits: maybe YOU if your art is up to the job!

YOUR GENRE portraits: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

BRAIN-EATING, soulful and soulless, haunting and rousing, etc etc music and sounds: maybe YOU if YOU can demonstrate what zombielicious sounds like!

YOUR GENRE music and sounds: maybe YOU if YOU have what it takes!

Etc...

Rebirth Community, initially conceived as a First Person Shooter, will be storyboarded using the Battle for Brains engine, resulting in a fully playable Battle for Brains campaign.

If Rebirth Community goes onward onto an FPS engine from there, as originally conceived, then maybe YOUR GENRE campaign will be able to make that leap too if YOU have what it takes...

-------------------------------------------------------------

...Something like that, but fixed up to match template.

The actual campaign probably ought not mention the engine directly, so it can be run on any Battle for [genre] engine without something said inside the campaign referring to some differently skinned version of the engine.

Thus it can be developed as a Battle for Wesnoth campaign using normal Battle for Wesnoth tools, then run through whatever the porting of a campaign to the phone entails once it is ready.


If it does make money, a portion of the proceeds should probably be given toward the mainline Battle for Wesnoth development. Similarly quite likely a portion should be earmarked for building up the Battle for Brains arsenal of stuff useful for a fan community to build their own scenarios and campaigns for Battle for Brains. Possibly this would include forums, an add-ons server specifically for Battle for Brains add-ons, whatever.

By the way I remembered that although not precisely the actual Internet Meme cowboys since I made some adjustments such as removing their knock-back special and I did not use the entire "faction", there is a scenario featuring Blighty (as in Captain Bligh ;)) faction riflemen marines etc facing zombies in the "Mutiny in 1626" add-on.

It happened because there were no units representing brainwashed cultists running around converting people to their cult so I simply used zombies, which already naturally in Wesnoth turn what they kill into zombies, to represent the cultists running around converting people.

There are any number of people on the Wesnoth forums writing campaigns for Wesnoth who would probably drool at the prospect of publishing their campaign as an iPhone app, and the current port of Wesnoth guy hasn't even included all the "mainline" campaigns in his offering yet let alone even hinted at providing an outlet for all that enthusiasm.

So there might well be, just from the Wesnoth forums, plenty of demand for publish their campaign on a phone platform services.

Naturally, "some" (hahahaha) of them won't have a budget... ;) :)

But hey, who knows, maybe some of them will...

Most of them tend to be writing for the Wesnoth world, "Irdya", even if their stories of Irdya never get adopted into the "mainline" timeline of Irdya.

It would probably be good to flesh out more about the "mainline" campaign(s) of Battle for Brains. For example would a campaign featuring a necromancer who conjures zombies fit? How about if it also featured knights and a princess?

Etc., because the hope of getting their campaign onto the iPhone by getting it included in the Battle for Brains' mainline might attract people who might not be looking to write stuff that more obviously fits into the same universe let alone the same timeline as Rebirth Community.

A lure toward setting up a budget and paying people to do stuff could be that of becoming the mainline campaign of a whole new genre in the Battle for [genre] series, so anything that doesn't fit Battle for Brains we can suggest "they" try to find someone interested in putting together a budget and having the Battle for YOUR GENRE team set them up as mainline in yet another Battle for [genre] engine... not just any someone mind you, but someone who, once being the mainline campaign of the "new" engine, will be willing to accept "their" campaign as also being "mainline" in that [genre].

***Note check whether the current port lets people play "multiplayer" via the existing Wesnoth multiplayer server. Suppose it turns out that people are buying his for that capability not for the campaigns?!?! We'd have to run a multiplayer server. Who would pay hosting and bandwidth for that and why would they do so?



Mark,i am currently taking all of this in, and am really loving this feedback, if you could, email me so we could set up a more real time conversations to get things moving on the ball, i really like the wesnoth idea, there is a pixel artist that is free on the help forums we could get, and i know how to code in mostly every language in some form or another. So i would really love your take on the idea, we could really his this off, when you read this, try to make this forum on the dll so no one will be taking our idea, mostly yours influenced by me. So yea, any time im free for 3 weeks so i could really get a lot done, email me at Yesman538@gmail.com from there we can really make this pan out to be a very interesting development.

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I really live free civ as an engine, it seems that battle for wesnoth might be a little sketchy since there is someone already producing something off the game, as in story boarding, the game is a run and gun type game, so making a storyline for a multiplayer run and gun would be hard with a turn based as wesnoth or anything else. Am i correct or ? again i have made some 2d games, but nothing 3d that is what i was working toward. So story boarding might gain support and help with the developing for it which would be great, just need to know what i should start sketching out so i can put up some inquires?
Like i said i have 3 web developers, that can help make my website; once they see something developing that is.
2 story board people, which would help with the overall story board i guess.
1 developer, which is yours truly so with knowing this, what should i start doing and looking for?


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Come to think of it mark, this would be an amazing 2d side scroller. I have read your other posts and see that you are into the simplistic engines, and how ingenious they tend to be. Well this as a side scroller would be so simple and would allow a clear representation to what the game is meant to be, if you agree, please comment back.

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That sounds really nice and retro.

I had been about to write that I am not even sure what a run and gun is but whatever it you should find out what engines are available to do it.

I was concerned though with how do you kust kind of draw a game in something like that? An artist could, sure, the UDK artist wrote at lesat one whole game for the UDK just using graphical scripting language. But he can draw, I saw pictures of cool townscapes he did and such.

I do townscapes in "Gridarta for Crossfire" map-editor, dropping which house sprite I want onto which square of the map I want it on.

Now if one had the UDK head graphic artist dude's work to drag and drop the houses or something, great. But if the UDK doesn't come with "all the usual suspects" of sprite, oops.

Usual suspects for town I guess would be the ones you see on those "generate a town for an RPG" websites or, back in pencil and paper era, on the lists of which building you get when you roll what number on how many dice.

Usual suspects for monsters would be the original D&D monsters maybe plus what was added in Greyhawk, the first supplement. Then subtract all the Gygaxian ones that don't really exist in the literature outside of their copyright or trademark or whatever. And maybe correct some liberties they took like describing a Lammasu from an ancient bestiary and calling it a displacer beast then taking the label lhammasu and applying it to what prett much seemed to be a sphinx.

Its just nice, especially for prototyping, to have standard stuff right there. I dunno if professional graphic artists and designers use "Letraset" anymore but chances are they do use fonts. Its the same kind of idea, the standard vocabulary of the genres. (For romance you'd probably have standard swoon, gosh, oh gosh, etc emoticon images for depicting the standard emotions the genre runs on.

A nice thing with Freeciv is the ability the players have of choosing which of several tilesets they prefer, some quite abstract or symbolic others more toward realistic.

How do you do stuff like that in 3D ?

On the other hand, Google has an ever growing library somewhere of free models you can grab and use for anything. So maybe getting familiar with what is in that collection would be useful. Along with getting familiar with what 3D engines there are. *Game* engines. I know the DOOM engine was released as source code but not sure what else was so far.

I don't like the UDK because excluding people who use Indie (Indy? Makes me think Indy 500...) operating systems seems a bad way to appeal to Indie culture... Oh hi guys we are screwing a whole bunch of you from the get go, but we do hope you like our game...

There is a side-scroller campaign for Wesnoth amazingly, it wasn't very good last time I loked but it shows how one could go about doing it.

Still turn based though.

What side scroller engines are available. I guess googling "GNU side scroller" and "GNU run and gun" is in order...

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well currently i am modeling using 3ds max. The engine side of things im using the source SDK, which is a bitch with one person since im not really into the whole game programming. So if we do the side scroller, your saying turn based? and the UDK is nice dont get me wrong, there is even a side scroller implementation available, if that is what your referring too. For Map editors UDK has one, as well as source SDK, but come to think about it, it might also have a side scroller function..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=589TNuojtBw this is the type of game that i would want, lush, nice looking graphics, fun gameplay and well just a great game overall. I was thinking we would use Unity 3d, it uses C# which is generally easier then C++ and can help with the porting to Ipod touch. So now that we have that figured out, Recruiting the help for our cause, would you mind getting that figured out with me? via Email, or this forum not sure how much free time you have, but we can collaborate. Again email is yesman538@gmail.com i would like to talk in a more fast paced conversation so we could get more done. Thanks again for the input, really helping me a lot.

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I think I might have better luck finding the kind of thing I am looking for if I look for actual games, complete running games.

With Freeciv, Crossfire RPG and Battle for Wesnoth, I get not only the game engine but at least one actual game that the engine actually runs.

Complete games to use as plug and play modules, requiring very little compiled code change in order to be able to be used to represent different aspects of or scales of a single world or universe.

I am not looking to develop new compiled programs on the scale of any of those three examples, I am looking for a fourth such thing, one that can show people 3D views of the same things and places that they can be shown using these three.

Ideally one would even be able to import Freeciv and Crossfire maps instead of having to hand build maps from scratch trying to make them represent the same landscapes and interiors that I already have maps of in Freeciv and Crossfire formats.

Or another idea I suppose would be a 3D client for Crossfire. One that connects to a Crossfire server and, given what a normal 2D client is given, renders 3D scense for the player showing those things in the pretty way that players seem lately to insist upon.

Time spent looking for such tools is time taken away from completing the worlds themselves, scripts for creating maps of cities given the Freeciv specifications of them and all those existing chores that are needed anyway regardless of what clients players ultimately end up using to connect.

So maybe if you are going the 3D route instead of making a town or landscape or region or whatever that one could describe construct and display using either of these three tools I already have up and running, my interest becomes okay great that sounds nice, but it would be really nice if as you build it you keep in mind the idea of being able to plug it into other worlds other places and of being able to use it to run/display/play other worlds other places other monsters etc.

Maybe that comes down to "great game idea, is it going to be moddable, so people can tell it about their own town, their own zombie hordes or potential victims, even their own monsters or cities or civilisations or whatever?"

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i am totally with your idea, and am willing to use any of those engines, but if you could draw out what you mean, so i can see it in a better light. Right now im not grasping how turn based would help with the fps i have in mind?

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It probably wouldn't, unless it could bring in funds thus helping on the fundraising side or clarify plot backstory narrative or whatever (storyboard).

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http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=591005
that is the help forum i set up, and are you still wiling to work on the project??

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