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[web] So... flash or javascript?

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No doubt both are very amazing, but I'm stuck in a dilemma on which should I build my new game on?

I know flash is very good for animations and with ActionScript3, the programtical side of flash games have become a lot better as well. But the problem being that it is horrible for accessibility users, and the change in different flash versions I heard is also a bad issue.

javascript on the other hand, is very accessible and doesn't depend on anything but the browser (+ javascript being on). It is also really fast in the majority of browsers (excluding IE < 8). And when based off a library like jQuery, it has a pretty damn good chance of working the same on most browsers. But the problem with JS is that it is much easier to find and exploit bugs, "cracked", (especially with editing JS on the fly) + not the best for various animations (ex: random smoke).

So as you may see by now, they both have pros and cons, but I don't know which one will cause more problems in the future.

I'm going to be a building an isometric game, the basic concept will be: building blocks, various objects moving across the grid, and several animations.

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Nice :) But your engine doesn't work as expected in Chrome... + I want to create an isometric screen

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if you are talking about HTML5 canvas then it is only available in modern browsers.
If you are animating using pure javascript vs flash it is like comparing a software renderer vs a hardware renderer.

even HTML5 canvas is still buggy on some browsers.

with flash AS3 you can pick it up and deliver something in less time.

the drawback is that you cannot have anything that can run on ipad/iphone

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seriously, what game can you do in javascript ?
Flash is not horrible for accessibility users.

If we believe what Adobe say : 98% of penetration for Flash Player 10.

So, just make your game in Flash 7,8 or 9 to be sure to have the max possible accessibility.

I don't understand why change in different Flash version is a bad issue.
With the latest Flash player you can still read content of the older versions...

Maybe the only weakness of Flash right now is mobile device, smart phones etc.
Other than that, i will recommend you Flash !

But also depends on your skills on both languages ?

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IMHO HTML5 is not ready for prime time just yet for GAMES. Market saturation is still quite slow. In many cases people are more hesitant to upgrade their browsers then upgrade flash. However, anyone who plays games online is going to have flash. Or frankly they are not going to be playing games online in the first place. The primary rule of business is to cater to your demographic. Your demographic in this case is more likely to have flash than it is to have HTML5 support (at least for now).

In addition to this, javascript (in the browser) like you stated is slow or buggy for many things. Sure, with some of the cross platform high performance extension libraries available, you COULD build a game in it. However you can build the same game just as easily in flash AS3 (AS3 is based on a draft spec of what was going to be the next incarnation of javascript, you can even find versions of jQuery and such for it!). Your animations will run smoother. You can take full advantage of opacity. You have a wide range of media support, etc

And just to remove some of the hesitation caused by the (most likely unintentional) deceptive explanation by earlier posters, flash (10+) will perform loads better than javascript on two of the largest smartphone operating systems(iOS, android). While some will argue that flash does not exist on the iOS, and that is partially true, flash actually has the ability to compile directly down and run natively on the iphone, ipad, etc. So the point is mute.

And nothing is stopping you from using both either (mind you, you will then be increasing the lowest common denominator, though I would gather not by much). Many flash apps I have written for clients communicate with the host page via ordinary javascript. I use this quite often for integrating micro transaction systems for social apps, various ajax overlays, and allowing my apps on various domains to communicate with eachother (using cross-domain javascript)

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Quote:
Original post by jujunosuke
seriously, what game can you do in javascript ?
Flash is not horrible for accessibility users.


the biggest problem with javascript/Canvas development is InternetExplorer. if you ignore it, you can do everything in JS you can do in Flash (probably more).

e.g., http://www.phoboslab.org/biolab/

but JS development is free and flash developer costs.. how much?

also a good place to pimp my framework :) http://gamejs.org

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Quote:
Original post by PaulCesar
flash actually has the ability to compile directly down and run natively on the iphone, ipad, etc. So the point is mute.


?? how is this done. afaik this kind of thing is now forbidden by apple. see:

http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler

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@ simono your link is outdated. flash apps are supported now 100% on iphone.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/logged_in/abansod_iphone.html

the only problem is that I did some tests and it is as slow as hell even for basic animations on a 3GS.

For flash vs JS, flash is easier to maintain, and you can develop for free (check flashdevelop and flex SDK).

In terms of animations, you would be re-inventing the wheel if you go with JS. You have a large set of 2D and 3D libraries for flash.

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Quote:
Original post by simono

but JS development is free and flash developer costs.. how much?


If you use Adobe Flex SDK as the main codebase and use FlashDevelop (Windows only) as the IDE, which you can code, compile, debug and build your Flash application without the need for the full Adobe Flash suite for FREE. As long as you are happy to code everything, you cannot go wrong with both tools. HTML5 is a great technology (especailly when WebGL is fully implemented), but it is at its infancy. And not all game players will be warm with HTML5+javascript, as they are so used to playing Flash games. Remember think like an typical non-technical game developer. Are they really going to break their sweat to update to the latest web browser (in some cases beta). I have to admit, using the Free Flash tools i mentioned with Papervision3D and Jiglibflash is a good start, as I enjoy writing games in these technologies. I am also starting a HTML5+javascript project. I tried some case studies, and some browsers (firefox, safari, chrome, opera) have differing qualities in render. Some browsers render faster than others, so writing games in HTML5+JS is a shot in the dark at this current stage. Warning as well, JQuery is excellent for nice interfaces, but DONT try it to build games, it is so slow and cumbersome in performance, as remember it is another abstraction layer, which will slow down, or even crash your game if you go over-ambitious.

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