It seems like most graphics technology and shaders and such are only used to achieve more realism, and sometimes nice cartoony effects. I think we as graphics programmers should also use this technology more to create unique and weird things, experiment with them! So I made a graphical argument about that:

The endless possibilities of art styles

I'd like to hear how you think about this!

Some parts of the presentation:

This is mostly an art issue, not a tech issue. As a graphics programmer I don't come up with a bunch of shaders, bestow them upon the artists, and say "here is what you must use to achieve your artistic vision!". Instead I create frameworks and tools which the artists can use achieve the look they want, and also implement new features based on their requests. I mean if you're a creative, artsy sort of guy and you want to find new ways to use tech to realize your artistic vision then go for it! But myself and most other programmers I know are engineers, not artists. They work at solving tech problems, not art problems. So I'd imagine that you're talking to the wrong audience here. [wink]

he's not talking to the wrong audience. because art only exists with the right tech behind it. if all the programmers strive to implement crysis, then the artists get bumpapped shiny surfaces and nice oceans even if they might not want it.

but mostly, he talks about not constraining yourself to the typical thing: copying the existing things. try new stuff. best: together with your artist.

Quote:Original post by davepermen
he's not talking to the wrong audience. because art only exists with the right tech behind it. if all the programmers strive to implement crysis, then the artists get bumpapped shiny surfaces and nice oceans even if they might not want it.

If a programmer implements some useless water tech and the artists wanted something else, then that's a communications/management problem. Programmer workload should be driven by artist/designer feature requests, not the other way around. I don't know where you work, but I don't just sit around implementing whatever I think is cool because I saw it in Crysis.

Quote:Original post by dehebo
I agree, wrong audience.

Art Leads and the like further up the chain decide on what look they want

No no no! If the graphics programmer says that something cannot be done, than the art lead will look for something different. Like the Dufy slide below, most people I show this to immediately say this is not possible in 3D. But it is: I have come up with a way to do this, and that way is a combination of shaders and post effects and thus very technical. An artist wouldn't be able to find that solution and most graphics programmers would just say it isn't possible!

I found your blog entry quite interesting. However, I think you are asking a somewhat obvious question - the reason that people aren't trying these styles out is that they aren't really readily available. It is kind of like saying "why didn't I think of that" after seeing a genius invention - because it takes someone special to find something truly unique and implement it.

With that said, there is also some negative commercial points to doing things like this as well. When you consider how many people 'get' and enjoy modern art, and then take the intersection of that set of people with those that play games, then you are limiting your audience quite a bit... That can be bad for business, even if you are developing a niche product.

Don't get me wrong - I would love to see more games with unique visual styles. However, it takes someone with an artistic background in addition to a technical background to really make some progress on this type of work. Those are not usual qualities for one person to have... Perhaps you can be the first of the renaissance graphics programmers [grin]!

Though not a "new" style, the ink art in SFIV was very impressive. Lots of people wanted a good part of the game to have that style. Whether or not it would work is another story. However, I think people are very open to different artistic styles as along as they are presented properly.

Quote:Original post by Oogst

No no no! If the graphics programmer says that something cannot be done, than the art lead will look for something different. Like the Dufy slide below, most people I show this to immediately say this is not possible in 3D. But it is: I have come up with a way to do this, and that way is a combination of shaders and post effects and thus very technical. An artist wouldn't be able to find that solution and most graphics programmers would just say it isn't possible!

If we were in pre-production for a project and our head artist came over with that picture and said that was the look they were going for, I would do the necessary research, prototyping, and legwork to figure how close we could get to the visual target. Then we would sit down, and work out the logistics regarding how long it would take to get it fully implemented, how much tools work would be needed, how long it would take the artists trained in the new tools, etc. Then we would weigh all of that against the need for the new tech, and how much time it would take away from other important tasks. I would do all of that because well...that's my job. I don't know where you get the idea that "most graphics programmers" wouldn't follow the same procedure that I just outlined.

Quote:Original post by MJP

Quote:Original post by davepermen
he's not talking to the wrong audience. because art only exists with the right tech behind it. if all the programmers strive to implement crysis, then the artists get bumpapped shiny surfaces and nice oceans even if they might not want it.

If a programmer implements some useless water tech and the artists wanted something else, then that's a communications/management problem. Programmer workload should be driven by artist/designer feature requests, not the other way around. I don't know where you work, but I don't just sit around implementing whatever I think is cool because I saw it in Crysis.

artists can only put to use what programmers create for them. if they just implement the next crysis, then that's what the art will look like.

and if i look around in these forums, and see how most games look, developers mostly implement "crysis".