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cowsarenotevil

What Does Everyone Think About The New Site Layout?

487 posts in this topic

Alrighty, we are at 125% line-height right now. When I refreshed the page it did roll up a bit. Still seems readable to me, but we'll see if anyone notices or finds it worse.

[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294822431' post='4757623']
you've currently got:

ipb_styles.css:2678
[code].post_body {
margin-left: 235px;
line-height: 100%;
}

.post_block.no_sidebar .post_body {
margin-left: 0px;
}

.post_body .post {
margin-top: 3px;
padding: 10px;
line-height: 150%; /* <--- chrome says this is being matched, and it looks bloody ugly */
}
[/code]
[/quote]
Hey MaulingMonkey why does the CSS styling you posted list the margin-left property as 235px? We've since edited that down to 185px
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[quote name='Mike.Popoloski' timestamp='1294756437' post='4757279']
I'm not sure as to the origins of this sentiment that discussing problems with the new site is somehow equivalent to whining or attacking the developers, but it's patently ridiculous. When you support a software product, you don't consider users submitting feedback and bug reports as personal attacks, do you? I know for me, user feedback is ALWAYS appreciated, even if we don't always end up making the change the user wanted. So much so, in fact, that both at work as well as in my hobbyist projects I continually reach out to users to cajole them into giving feedback. Trying to put a damper on that here seems absolutely mind boggling.[/quote]
it's a typical behaviour that when something changes, people start to cry omg it's all bad. seen it often enough. feedback is appreciated, of course. but overreaction is not.

[quote]
As for the rating system, it's not hard to look at the new system and determine logically what the outcome of its effects will be. You don't always have to run an experiment to know the outcome of a process. Trying to dump off the role previously filled by the rating system onto the moderators, who already have enough work to do, doesn't sound like a brilliant move to me. It's not really their job to try to run posts through the constantly fluctuating filter of community standards, and even if it were I don't think they could do it with any degree of success.[/quote]
well, as said, i know it works very well in .. well, about any other forum. so yes, looking at the outcome means one thing: it should work very well here, too.


[quote]
Where would they draw the line? Profanity? How about if I just call you a stupid moron? What if I followed you around and after every single one of your posts, I also posted a followup "I think everything he just said is wrong."? I bet that would get me an even higher rating, since a few people might find it funny to rate those posts up, and anyone who finds it annoying won't have any recourse but to bug the moderators to censor me when the actual content of my posts isn't breaking any rules.[/quote]
I think everything he just said is wrong.


sorry, had to :) but that's about exactly my point: always this negativity, always this "that could go wrong in so many ways!!" how about trying and see if it does? so far, in other fories, it did not go wrong. why should this be different? are we such a bad community?
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[quote name='Gaiiden' timestamp='1294827415' post='4757651']
Alrighty, we are at 125% line-height right now. When I refreshed the page it did roll up a bit. Still seems readable to me, but we'll see if anyone notices or finds it worse.[/quote]
Looks good to me.
[quote]Hey MaulingMonkey why does the CSS styling you posted list the margin-left property as 235px? We've since edited that down to 185px[/quote]
[s]Doesn't now. Must've changed while I was preparing my post? Although superpig was ranting about server-side caching in IRC earlier... clarifying right after I cleared my client-side caching testing the black theme at time :D
[/s]
EDIT: You've got multiple copies of ipb_styles.css, and that was from the black theme.

URLS:
white theme: http://www.gamedev.net/public/style_css/css_4/ipb_styles.css
black theme: http://www.gamedev.net/public/style_css/css_8/ipb_styles.css

[quote name='davepermen' timestamp='1294827549' post='4757652']
sorry, had to :) but that's about exactly my point: always this negativity, always this "that could go wrong in so many ways!!" how about trying and see if it does? so far, in other fories, it did not go wrong. why should this be different? are we such a bad community?
[/quote]
But did it go [b]right[/b] in other forums? I can't think of a single forum I frequently read anymore that has rating up without rating down of any sort. Especially if we're de-emphasizing the per-user aspect of ratings in favor of the actual post contents. But I guess I'm just another negative nancy ;)
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All this new stuff is overwhelming. I feel lost.

In this new design, where do I go to eat fondue while sipping Gato Negro and listening to Vaya Con Dios?
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And yes, [i]I have zero friends.[/i] Why does everyone need to know that? [img]http://archive.gamedev.net/community/forums/images/smileys/depressed.gif[/img]
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Hi, just wondering is it normal for all the drop down menus to pop open while the page is loading?? I am on Chrome and every time I go to a new page, all the drop down menu will pop open until the whole page finish loading and then it pops back. The drop down menus I am referring to is like the one on the top left when you click on your nick/name and it appears the "My Profile, My Settings etc" menu.

I really love the ability to now read on mobile devices. Kudos to it. I often read GameDev website on the go. The only nitpick that I would say is to have a faster way to get to the forums especially on a mobile device, because it does take awhile to load pages on the iphone4 :D But it is just a small issue

regards
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[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294828229' post='4757656']
But did it go [b]right[/b] in other forums? I can't think of a single forum I frequently read anymore that has rating up without rating down of any sort. Especially if we're de-emphasizing the per-user aspect of ratings in favor of the actual post contents. But I guess I'm just another negative nancy ;)
[/quote]

yes, sir, as i stated repeatedly, it works just fine everywhere. notebookreview.com has a forum i'm frequently on as an example. others exist.
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[quote name='littlekid' timestamp='1294838651' post='4757702']
Hi, just wondering is it normal for all the drop down menus to pop open while the page is loading?? I am on Chrome and every time I go to a new page, all the drop down menu will pop open until the whole page finish loading and then it pops back. The drop down menus I am referring to is like the one on the top left when you click on your nick/name and it appears the "My Profile, My Settings etc" menu.
[/quote]

Yeah, happens for me too. [url="http://www.gamedev.net/tracker/issue-109-profile-drop-down-menu-visible-on-page-load/"]I reported it as a bug[/url].
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[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294828229' post='4757656']
But did it go [b]right[/b] in other forums? I can't think of a single forum I frequently read anymore that has rating up without rating down of any sort. Especially if we're de-emphasizing the per-user aspect of ratings in favor of the actual post contents. But I guess I'm just another negative nancy ;)
[/quote]

I think the reason up and down works in other forums is either that the down votes just pertain to posts and don't affect overall profile ratings (stack overflow as far as I know is like this), which I think we should have, or they tie in negative consequences with being downvoted, which we never had outside of a number. Having read Dr. Seuss's Sneetches, I really couldn't care if a number of mine was high or low unless it were related to my bank account.

As it was, it was just a really arbitrary number. Really it was. People got rated down for so many reasons that the number lost pretty much all meaning for me. At least now I can look at a rating and think, "well this guy at least was agreed with or helped X people," as opposed to before where I would think, "Well this guy must rarely post in the lounge."

I still find ratings to be pretty arbitrary in the new system and think that communities where the people in them care enough to tell people when they are being stupid and moderators are willing to back them up don't need ratings.
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[quote name='Kevin Hawkins' timestamp='1294666414' post='4756635']
Developer journals no longer have their own sub-forum. To access what I think you're looking for, go to the menu at the top and click on Community -> Developer Journals. This is a hub page for the journals. From there, you can see the latest updates, filter by most popular, most commented, highest rated blogs, etc.[/quote]Yes, thank you very much but I also see 'external' blogs being replicated here. Such as Leadwerk's. Was it there before? Maybe I didn't pay attention and maybe it always have been there but... perhaps there should be some sort of separation? I don't know.
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[quote name='Gaiiden' timestamp='1294827415' post='4757651']
Alrighty, we are at 125% line-height right now. When I refreshed the page it did roll up a bit. Still seems readable to me, but we'll see if anyone notices or finds it worse.

[/quote]


It feels better... but I can't tell if its my eyes adusting, or if its because i'm on my laptop and not my desktop.... or if its just really better.


My other thoughts:

The feedback tab on the right needs to go.... its pretty lame.
Also, I do not need to know how many post a user has (located under group). If I wanted to know this, I could look it up. I'd rather save the vertical space.
Can we move the 'vote this post up' botton to the 'footer' of the comment/post? Again, less white space in the vertical would be a good thing. Though, there is a chance if this is changed that it may not look as good as I think it would.

Overall... Good Job with the changes... especially the response to user comments you've had so far.

Edit: One more thing. With some people, the 'joined' date under their name in the forums doesn't have enough space and gets kicked down to the next line. You may need to abbreviate Months to make this fit correctly, or widen the right column/div and push everything left.
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Well, whatever my quota is for upvotes, it appears I'm [i]still[/i] maxed out, even though today is ostensibly a new day. As for how many it was, well, my best guess is around a dozen, but I'm entirely sure.
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[quote name='davepermen' timestamp='1294839463' post='4757707']
[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294828229' post='4757656']
But did it go [b]right[/b] in other forums? I can't think of a single forum I frequently read anymore that has rating up without rating down of any sort. Especially if we're de-emphasizing the per-user aspect of ratings in favor of the actual post contents. But I guess I'm just another negative nancy ;)
[/quote]
yes, sir, as i stated repeatedly, it works just fine everywhere. notebookreview.com has a forum i'm frequently on as an example. others exist.
[/quote]
That communities manage to survive, and sometimes even thrive without downvoting doesn't surprise me - I have seen them, after all - but it doesn't work "just fine everywhere", not in my books by any stretch. More to the point: Did those communities succeed in spite of the lack of negative rating options or because of that lack? Some can get by on the quality of their moderators, others by their elaborate systems of warnings, points, suspensions and bans. We tend to forget those that fail: we don't stick around.

And we know well what gdnet was like before the ratings system. Do you seriously believe introducing only the positive ratings would've improved the quality of posting? We could have the moderators issue more suspensions and bans at the expense of their time, but how is that an improvement?

[quote name='d000hg' timestamp='1294841264' post='4757723'][quote name='phantom' timestamp='1294750780' post='4757239']The biggest problem I have with the current system is that there is no negative feedback ability to either a) make people correct their attitude[/quote]How about, you know, [i]telling [/i]people you don't like what they've said rather than making a cowardly down-vote where they can't even see what they did wrong?[/quote]
Yeah, because that's totally effective on it's own, since everyone who even thinks about rating someone down is a coward that hasn't already voiced their distaste and gone blithely ignored.

Is there no place for a middle ground between simply ignored words and moderator action?

Being able to point out an erroneous post, at the very least, seems something worthwhile. You can hope everyone reads the thread in whole, but some threads drag long, and in my experience, not even in on the best of forums will everyone read every page. If protecting precious egos from scary negative signs is that big an issue, make it bloody opt in like help wanted.
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[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294848043' post='4757764']
Is there no place for a middle ground between simply ignored words and moderator action?
[/quote]
The middle ground being a simply ignored number?
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1294849013' post='4757769']
[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294848043' post='4757764']
Is there no place for a middle ground between simply ignored words and moderator action?
[/quote]
The middle ground being a simply ignored number?
[/quote]

Except that in general the number WASNT ignored and the introduction of the rating system was a POSITIVE step for the overall post content of this site.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1294849013' post='4757769']
[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294848043' post='4757764']
Is there no place for a middle ground between simply ignored words and moderator action?
[/quote]
The middle ground being a simply ignored number?
[/quote]
That followed you. That number was an awesome stalker, man. Did the job of 10 men!
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I find the layout cluttered. Too many boxes in too many places with too many icons and too many badges. Also, the moderation tools in forum listings cause things to [i]move around[/i] due to changes to the size of the containing div. Nothing is worse in UI than things arbitrarily moving around.

I don't like that i have to click the drop-downs to activate them (Safari 5.0.3, OS X 10.6.6). Drop downs on the web should drop on hover, close on mouse-out.

I think the social tools were chosen a little indiscriminately (throw everything in). I think Twitter and Facebook were all that were needed; what use is a StumbleUpon badge on a GDNet forum thread?

I hate the quote boxes. They're hideous. :)

I dislike the new smiley tags. They complicate programmer-y stuff like enumerated lists or parenthetical expressions.

Formatting is problematic for me. Newlines in the edit box aren't properly converted into paragraphs plus vertical margin, so I have to append additional newlines.

Other than that, it's fine. It's a forum; it'll do just fine.
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[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1294848043' post='4757764']
Do you seriously believe introducing only the positive ratings would've improved the quality of posting?[/quote]
Yes I do seriously believe that. Why else would you think I'm supporting it, then?

The positive only rating system worked and works in many forums. It is quite popular. It's implemented on all major forum software, and used in a lot of different communities. So I consider it proven to be good enough.
The positive only rating system leads to better posts, as it is visible in other communities.

The negative rating system implemented here lead to a lot of hating and agressive postings and bans. Saying the positive only rating system would create that, does not make much sense. I've seen the original gamedev system create a lot of chaos, too. It was not perfect, no solution to that.

What both systems have in common, is, they're good enough. They're a bit different, but serve the purpose of promoting good content good enough. Both are not perfect.



Those who think that it will fail in THIS very community think this comunity to behave different than others. Which simply is not true. We have the same useless fights (this on included), the same Ego-wars, the same ranting, trolling, banning. There's nothing special in the way this community behaves.

And this is the reason i seriously believe, the positive only rating system is good enough. Not better, but not worse, than the negative rating system.

Happy now, MikeP? (not with the content, of course, just with the way I've written it)
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[quote name='davepermen' timestamp='1294851258' post='4757793']
the negative rating lead to a lot of hating and agressive postings and bans, too. it was no perfect thing, but a good enough thing. same as positive only rating.
[/quote]

[b]Nobody [/b]was ever banned due to having a negative rating. They were banned for what they posted, rating or no. I just want to make that clear.

EDIT: Except maybe nes8bit. But come on, he deserves it.
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[quote name='Josh Petrie' timestamp='1294852458' post='4757804']
[quote name='davepermen' timestamp='1294851258' post='4757793']
the negative rating lead to a lot of hating and agressive postings and bans, too. it was no perfect thing, but a good enough thing. same as positive only rating.
[/quote]

[b]Nobody [/b]was ever banned due to having a negative rating. They were banned for what they posted, rating or no. I just want to make that clear.

EDIT: Except maybe nes8bit. But come on, he deserves it.
[/quote]

And this is what matters, in the end. Bad behavior leads to bans, no matter what rating system. And yes, nes8bit deserved it.
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[quote name='kloffy' timestamp='1294590572' post='4756029']
First impression: I like it, very slick!

The only thing that's bothering me at the moment is that the "Recent Threads"-box is so far down the frontpage. For me, it is one of the most important elements of the site. I really liked being able to see the latest discussions at a glance.
[/quote]
Yeah this is the only thing I'm not keen about as well. It'd be nice if we could have the layout configurable in some fashion (although I'm not entirely sure how difficult this would be to pull off).
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Silly question. Rating up a single post doesn't do anything does it? I read over the small little numbers in the bottom right corner. I recommend adding a glow filter. B) As a post is rated up higher and higher have it begin to glow and overshadow anyone else's post.

[code]box-shadow: 0 0 50px rgba(0, 255, 0, 1);-webkit-box-shadow: 0 0 50px rgba(0, 255, 0, 1); -moz-box-shadow: 0 0 50px rgba(0, 255, 0, 1);[/code]
[img]http://assaultwars.com/pictures/awesome.png[/img]

On another note continue to lower the margin of everything. Still think the left part of the posts needs to be shoved up where the name is so it's all within the same section. There's enough room too. When I say lower the margins I mean on quote boxes and the bottom area separating posts. (The part above the separating bar). Also if you keep the avatars where they are at move them up further. There's like 10 pixels there. Same for the posted date and the area under it. I believe the quote boxes though could have a slimming. They have like a 15 pixel border around all the text. I'd prefer to easily be able to view tons of quotes and multiquotes within a single page. I believe that after a while with continual changes and a direct focus for minimalism that this site will become more readable.
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