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cowsarenotevil

What Does Everyone Think About The New Site Layout?

487 posts in this topic

Maybe I overreacted a bit, but I still fell that gamedev now is just another forum with no personality.

Some suggestions:
[list][*]Maybe it's just me, but the font in the "reply editor" is smaller, that the font in the forums. Only one font size please! I'll get blind this way.[*]I don't know why is changing nicks is a good feature. It destroys the personal feel, people can post whatever they want with whatever nicks. Okay, I can report it, or check the profile, but hell, I like to see who I'm talking with.[*]Bring the old rating back. Everything is said already about this[*]Put the relevant info into one line at the posts' "titlebar".[*]Vertical space again. There should be 1 blank lines between the posts, like the old one. the titlebars are higher than should i think. The post rating widgets takes up vertical space too. Maybe it's just me, but I think the space between the lines could be smaller.[*]where are nested quotes?[*]Quote boxes are too big[/list]
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[quote name='szecs' timestamp='1294730610' post='4757130']
Maybe I overreacted a bit, but I still fell that gamedev now is just another forum with no personality.[/quote]
which it was before. the personality comes from us, the users. not from the forum, the page, the layout, anything.


[quote]I don't know why is changing nicks is a good feature. It destroys the personal feel, people can post whatever they want with whatever nicks. Okay, I can report it, or check the profile, but hell, I like to see who I'm talking with.[/quote]
because people might not be LeetH4ck0r 10 years after they registered it? maybe some people grew up?
[quote]Bring the old rating back. Everything is said already about this[/quote]
yes, enough ranting, hating and posting how bad it was during the years..


rest i can't comment on. i think it's okay, needs some getting used to.
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[quote name='davepermen' timestamp='1294738239' post='4757170']
which it was before. the personality comes from us, the users. not from the forum, the page, the layout, anything.



because people might not be LeetH4ck0r 10 years after they registered it? maybe some people grew up?

yes, enough ranting, hating and posting how bad it was during the years..


rest i can't comment on. i think it's okay, needs some getting used to.
[/quote]

I know the personality comes from us, but I'm talking about the site. Now it looks like any other forums, but okay, it's just my opinion. I never liked forums so much because of their layout. Maybe I'll get used to this one.

You could change nicks before too (by asking a stuff member). But not so easily from post to post. So if you grew up, you could change the nick anyway.
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I'm with the "no thanks GameDevBook" crowd; for all its faults, the old rating system was better than the new one (bring back downrating or kill off ratings/reputation entirely I say,) and all this social networking cruft is both annoying and a little confusing (though I guess it'll get less confusing with time.)

Quote notifications are a nice feature though. More focus on the forums, less on MyGameBookTweetSpace.

EDIT: is it just me, or is MyGameBookTweetSpace a tad slow at the moment?
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I enjoy the social networking stuff. Allows people that are not members to contribute without allowing anonymous. That's a huge plus. The rest is a why not for me. because, really, why not? There's no harm in having social features (i know how associal some of you might be, just don't use that part, then).

and the new rating system works very well, i know it from some other forii. your statement "the old works better than the new one" makes NO sense. the old one was critisized for years, the new one is two days old (here), and works without critisizm in other communities since years.


you just have problems to cope with change.
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[size=2]Look and Feel is something weneed to get used to it, plus I am not a designer thus I won’t comment on it.But some usability issues arise from my point of view. Main two are the oneswho got most critics: "Recent Threads situation" is a concern, as itdoes not help users to [i]fast scout[/i] on forums, yet it GameDevdevelopers know more than anyone else how their website traffic flows I givethem a vote of confidence on this. IOTD is not an usability issue as thatfeature seems to be gone (or if it hasn't, it has been burrowed somewhere).[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]This was sent as feedback, butposting it here if anyone else wants to discuss/improve it:[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]All these are mainly usabilityissues that I've come into, please take into account that this is a firstglance on my thoughts, not a in deep analysis. Consider my setup as fullscreen navigation using google Chrome on a resolution of 1680x1050 under XP.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[b][size=2]Old website main ordered focuswere:[/size][/b][size=2] Latest articles/columns, Recent Threads(only forassiduous customers as it may be confused with side advertising), front Advertisings/Spotlight(Green isn't enough to draw full attention over advertising with that colorset), News and side advertisings. Reason News are taken into account as afocus , even if they were barely seen (with my setup), is the colorhightlight they suffered on daily basis (longest darker blue bar color withinthe main page, aside from GameDev title banner). Upcoming events and navigationmenus are within the range yet, they barely get any attention. Reason forUpcoming events to not be relevant is that user first glance tends to be rightside, due to spotlight green highlight ( this does not mean user is watching highlightedplace, this mean user notes it and so does his eye movement), In fact spotlightis so similar to front advertising that you consider both equal.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[b][size=2]New Website main ordered focusare: [/size][/b][size=2]Latest articles/columns-Front Advertising, FeaturedJournal/Spotlight/Careers, Events this week/Latest news. Once again Spotlightcolor scheme is not enough to draw attention. And global color scheme on titlesdoesn't offer the high contrast needed to draw user attention to a singleplace. Events this week draw too much attention, even if there might not be asingle event that current week, which seems to a issue to think about. Latestnews is not highlighted enough, so it seems to me that user will skip thatcontent. Most relevant issue here is by far Latest articles/columns-FrontAdvertising may be considered both as one. As their Look and Feel is toosimilar unfortunately. In fact the first time I saw the new layout I had toseek where Articles were at.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]In order to reach RecentThreads I need to scroll down, Pass Featured Book, Recent Articles (again), andRecent Threads.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]My main suggestions: [/size]

[size=2]1) Careers is not somethingI've personally ever wonder about on GameDev, if I want to seek a job I wouldgo to gamasutra way before coming here, personal taste. This is a place thatshould move down the main page, not one of the 3 main spots. This is suggestion depend on GameDev strategy.[/size]

[size=2]2) Swap advertising withcareers and swap careers with Recent Threads. This would have two interestingbenefits: Article focus regained and Recent Threads accessibility/focus.[/size]

[size=2]3) Latest news must be highlightedsomeway (Darker blue, longer bar, anything).[/size]

[size=2]4) Most calendar days arewasted, I would give a rethought.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]Hopefully this helps,[/size]

[size=2]Cheers.[/size]

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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1294750780' post='4757239']
The old rating might well have had it's complaints but you know what it did well? It made people accountable for how they acted over the site and gave the community the ability to show they disgreed with the way someone was conducting themselves. As soon as it was introduced the torrent of shit posts which had been becoming a problem over the forums dropped to a trickle as the effect kicked in.[/quote]
The largest problem with the old system is that people were using the ratings as a disagree button, as an indicator of helpfulness/technical knowledge, and as an attitude meter. Having three very loosely related things tied to a single number makes it impossible to know why someone has a low rating. If people were in some way held accountable for why they rated someone down then the rating system would be better.

I do agree that there should be ways to rate down posts at least for technical questions (bad advice can be worse than no advice at all), but I don't think it should have a lasting negative affect on the person's profile. Bad posters will end up having low scores and good posters will have very high scores. I don't see why we need to add more negativity

edit: MAN I LOVE THE BLACK THEME.
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Simply don't allow to rate in the lounge and on the profile. If someone is so desperate to rate down somebody to look up his/her posting history, then let him/her do it...
Or, (if the moderators are bored and have tons of time which I believe they have :P), downrating should have a reason, or a pointer to the thread that was the reason of downrating. Okay, lame idea...
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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1294750780' post='4757239']
Maybe it's not need on other sites, but frankly the other sites I've been to which use a rep system were basically opinion driven sites (so, gamer forums for the most part) with no requirement for technical correctness; on the flipside we have a forum which in large sections pretty much REQUIRES technical correctness and the inability to flag posts in such a manner reduces the usefulness.

In short; the new rating system is all well and good for flagging 'good' things but is lacking in the ability to make community driven corrective measures as well, which is a major oversight on a site like this.
[/quote]

i'm on a lot of technical other forums, where accuracy and correctness is needed. the only-plus rating system works very well.

and you can flag posts that are incorrect or inpolite. just report them. which i do on the other forums, too.

as said, it's a CHANGE. you can not YET say if it's for the better or the worse. but you could at least try it first, instead of going into attackmode. without trying it out for a while, we can't KNOW if it works, or not.
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[quote name='zer0wolf' timestamp='1294703185' post='4756955']
Actually, now that I think about it, why am I getting ads when I'm a paying GDnet+ member? :blink:
[/quote]
You might see some if they are newly added, like the post separator ad was. If you see anything besides the leaderboard, box and forum-topper ads let us know if it goes on for a few days
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[quote name='Daaark' timestamp='1294755783' post='4757272']
I really miss the active topics button. It was my bookmark to GDNet.
[/quote]

I think that's about the same as clicking "View Latest Content" at the top of it-looks-like-every-page, and then clicking the "Forums" tab.
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[quote name='Daaark' timestamp='1294755783' post='4757272']
I really miss the active topics button. It was my bookmark to GDNet.
[/quote]
As has been mentioned a couple times in this thread already, the equivalent in the new forum seems to be the [url=http://www.gamedev.net/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=active]Active content[/url] page.
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[quote name='Mike.Popoloski' timestamp='1294756437' post='4757279']
As for the rating system, it's not hard to look at the new system and determine logically what the outcome of its effects will be. You don't always have to run an experiment to know the outcome of a process. Trying to dump off the role previously filled by the rating system onto the moderators, who already have enough work to do, doesn't sound like a brilliant move to me. It's not really their job to try to run posts through the constantly fluctuating filter of community standards, and even if it were I don't think they could do it with any degree of success.

Where would they draw the line? Profanity? How about if I just call you a stupid moron? What if I followed you around and after every single one of your posts, I also posted a followup "I think everything he just said is wrong."? I bet that would get me an even higher rating, since a few people might find it funny to rate those posts up, and anyone who finds it annoying won't have any recourse but to bug the moderators to censor me when the actual content of my posts isn't breaking any rules.
[/quote]

That would get you banned, I suspect. And how is this different from the previous system? If users found harassment and trolling funny, they could rate it up in the old forums too. It's also still possible to ignore users if you dislike their posts that much.

I guess the moderators responsibilities include moving threads around and maintaining specific FAQs and probably other things; I can't find an FAQ that details the moderators job description. However, to a large extent I think applying certain standards IS part of their job (at least, that's always been my impression) e.g. closing threads which become abusive or contrary to the gamedev rules / terms and conditions, as well as dealing with users who break those. This happened in the old forums.

I feel that some things could be better about the new user rating system: ratings could perhaps be more visible, and individual posts could have down voting. However, I think it's rather extreme to say that because users lack down-voting, standards of posting will suddenly drop. If you want to maintain standards then make useful posts, and encourage others to do the same. If users are motivated to do this by a number, that's great, but if they're not I don't see why they would care any more about down-voting than up-voting.
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[quote name='Mike.Popoloski' timestamp='1294756437' post='4757279']
As for the rating system, it's not hard to look at the new system and determine logically what the outcome of its effects will be. You don't always have to run an experiment to know the outcome of a process. Trying to dump off the role previously filled by the rating system onto the moderators, who already have enough work to do, doesn't sound like a brilliant move to me.
[/quote]
But you ignore the problem with the old system. That a rating specifically designated to indicate helpfulness and technical knowledge could and was (no need to experiment there) lost for things unrelated at all to helpfulness or technical knowledge. It also had the problem of not being on the same page as the posts themselves, which has it's own bag of side effects.

The system as is now will see the cream rise to the top eventually. I think people are just upset that their ratings got lost, even though they were pretty arbitrary.

I do agree that flagging individual posts as unhelpful is important, but I don't think it should affect the user's profile negatively as they were just trying to help or voicing an opinion. As far as I know this is the same way stack overflow works but slightly less complicated?

If a person is conducting themselves in a way that hurts the community, then yes it should be the moderators job to step in. That's a large portion of their responsibility; to moderate. Entirely self moderated communities are usually trash because the community very rarely holds itself as accountable as a moderator holds themselves

Szecs suggestion might help some, but the new system is already implemented and will probably have the same effect.
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[quote name='Mike.Popoloski' timestamp='1294756437' post='4757279']
As for the rating system, it's not hard to look at the new system and determine logically what the outcome of its effects will be. You don't always have to run an experiment to know the outcome of a process. Trying to dump off the role previously filled by the rating system onto the moderators, who already have enough work to do, doesn't sound like a brilliant move to me. It's not really their job to try to run posts through the constantly fluctuating filter of community standards, and even if it were I don't think they could do it with any degree of success.
[/quote]


[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1294771626' post='4757332']
But you ignore the problem with the old system. That a rating specifically designated to indicate helpfulness and technical knowledge could and was (no need to experiment there) lost for things unrelated at all to helpfulness or technical knowledge. It also had the problem of not being on the same page as the posts themselves, which has it's own bag of side effects.

The system as is now will see the cream rise to the top eventually. I think people are just upset that their ratings got lost, even though they were pretty arbitrary.

I do agree that flagging individual posts as unhelpful is important, but I don't think it should affect the user's profile negatively as they were just trying to help or voicing an opinion. As far as I know this is the same way stack overflow works but slightly less complicated?

If a person is conducting themselves in a way that hurts the community, then yes it should be the moderators job to step in. That's a large portion of their responsibility; to moderate. Entirely self moderated communities are usually trash because the community very rarely holds itself as accountable as a moderator holds themselves

Szecs suggestion might help some, but the new system is already implemented and will probably have the same effect.
[/quote]

I've stated before that I personally feel the ratings in the Lounge wasn't a great idea. But at the time, one of the moderators came back and stated that even if you removed the ratings from the Lounge, what's to stop them from searching every non Lounge post (which I can agree with to an extent)?

I've never made it any secret that I've never cared for the ratings system. I prefer the only rate up approach, with reasons that way2lazy2care stated. If a person posts incorrect technical information in a post, they'll be corrected, and at the same time, probably won't have a good rating to begin with. If a person is being a jerk and obstructing the community, then yes, it's a moderators job.

Excluding areas where a moderator should get involved, the rate down feature seemed in my opinion to be most used in Lounge topics dealing with opinion. I personally don't see how opinion is unhelpful towards the overall community. But if we're talking something like politics, why should someone's personal belief harm their overall perception with their technical knowledge? Right now, you can rate the post, which is how it should be. Politics? Unhelpful and avoid. But at least this way, it won't be "You believe in XYZ? Then obviously I'm not going to trust you, nor should anyone trust you, when it comes to the following C++ question." The typical response in the previous forums was "Well, if you care about your rating that much, avoid answering questions in threads that people feel passionate about". What about people who are passionate about such threads and also care about their rating though?
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[quote name='Mike.Popoloski' timestamp='1294773334' post='4757345']
I think this is a common misconception; I don't think the old rating ever denoted only technical competence, nor was it meant to. It simply stood for your reputation in the community.
[/quote]
It said quite plainly in the "rate this user" dialogue what it meant. I am sorry that so many people don't read the dialogue before clicking it or assume that it means something that it isn't meant to.

edit: I think rating people down also makes people more likely to become apathetic to the rating, which makes them less likely to change their manner of posting. In the new way, they are still encouraged to help even if they might have a controversial personality.
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Let's all pause this conversation, [url="http://www.gamedev.net/blog/23/entry-2249112-48-hours-later-moving-forward/"]read my blog post[/url], and then come back.
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[quote name='Gaiiden' timestamp='1294781711' post='4757372']
Let's all pause this conversation, [url="http://www.gamedev.net/blog/23/entry-2249112-48-hours-later-moving-forward/"]read my blog post[/url], and then come back.
[/quote]

Well, I read your blog post, so...

I like the new site layout. The old one just looked old and clunky. This one appears far more organized and clean. I still would like to left click on a link and have it open in a new tab, but seeing as how that suggestion was so vehemently opposed...

I just noticed that I only have eight posts... That's not right...
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[quote name='Gaiiden' timestamp='1294781711' post='4757372']
Let's all pause this conversation, [url="http://www.gamedev.net/blog/23/entry-2249112-48-hours-later-moving-forward/"]read my blog post[/url], and then come back.
[/quote]

Hai! Good entry. It pretty much reflects what's been discussed. I have a comment:


The analog of Active Topics as pointed out by SiCrane is

Active Content
[url="http://www.gamedev.net/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=active"]http://www.gamedev.n...earch&do=active[/url]

not

Lastest Content
[url="http://www.gamedev.net/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=new_posts&search_app=forum"]http://www.gamedev.n...earch_app=forum[/url]

I thought it was important to mention that cause many user are asking about it.

I've enabled the Bookmarks Bar in my browser and added a link to Active Content there to have it at hand.
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1294783821' post='4757392']
The analog of Active Topics as pointed out by SiCrane is

Active Content
[/quote]
Oh right. That one is a little harder to find so I'll update the post with it
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