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staticVoid2

Proof God doesn't exist?

402 posts in this topic

I refuse to think we are the highest being present in this universe, so there has to be in essence a "God". However, the premise the Bible is based off of may be right or wrong. I can say the Bible is full of fictional tales and it doesn't take a Scientist to know that. Read about Samson, or read about Abraham's sacrifice, these tales don't depict real life but mystical powers in fact Samson is something that should be in Greek mythology and Abrahams tell doesn't show a merciful "God" that the same book talks claims he is.

I also tend to find it hard to believe that 1 billion Budapest are wrong and going to hell, or people who believe in Hinduism. All beliefes are based around the same premise "There is a God", yes it would make perfect sense that anything in the universe that could be considered a higher being is essentially a "God" to us. As big as the universe is, how can we be the only intelligent beings out there? I actually grew up going to a Christian church and to be honest it took to the age of 15 before I realized that something wasn't right about this function. Someone reading to me a book I can do so myself and telling me how he thinks I should live my life, people telling me I'm going to hell because I'm not this or that. What is the saying "You're damned if you do and damned if you don't" pick a religion and to at least 10 other religions you are wrong.

Those are my two pennies, how you enjoyed my point of view.
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[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1295631801' post='4762525']
Because some religious people tend to adopt(and want to force on others) the most outrageous interpretations of their religions.
[/quote]
it was a rhetorical why designed to get people to realize that extremists are not the best representation of a religion.

The Ghandi quote, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ," somewhat highlights the issue. It should be every christian's goal to strive to be like christ. Evil people who have been linked to the church have no bearing on my faith as my faith is based on Christ.

I also like the Angels and Demons quote, "Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed."
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295631186' post='4762518']
[quote name='EricRRichards' timestamp='1295626480' post='4762483']
I struggle to understand how people can truly believe in their religions, if they spend any time studying the history of them.
[/quote]

Why?
[/quote]

I would say it is because religions are created by men. For instance, the Church selected what documents regarding the life of Jesus are accepted as canon. Do you think it was in the Church's best interest to select those most favorable to their existence? The whole new testament was not divinely inspired, but selected and edited by a Church with it's own agenda. Therefore, even if Jesus was real and the true son of God, what is in the bible does not necessarily represent his life and message.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295633584' post='4762536']
I also like the Angels and Demons quote, "Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed."
[/quote]

I very much like that too.

If religions is the history of mankind trying to understand God and act accordingly, then of course they're "flawed" since we're not there yet. Which is great, because it gives us something to strive for.

Things are simple. But of course it's our nature to sit down and talk and talk and talk instead of doing. I'm a prime example of this, actually, but working on it.
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[quote name='SteveDeFacto' timestamp='1295571442' post='4762153']
You are trying to rationalize something that is obviously fiction but this is just going to lead you back to where you started. Embrace the truth and forget the lies you were taught as a child because they will lead you no where. A large majority of the people on the internet are atheist because it is the most logical assumption when you have access to an infinite source of information like the internet. The only people who believe in god are those who have been taught it from a very young age and who do not have the information to realize the truth.

If I told you that I had an invisible pink hippo living in my apartment you would think me crazy because it is an outrageous claim. If I showed you strong evidence such as a bag full of invisible hippo poop you would have to accept it as truth. God is a magic man in the sky which is an extremely outrageous claim and should require strong evidence but there is none...
[/quote]

Infinite source of information on the internet?
1) [i]If [/i]God exists, 1 property of God [i]has[/i] to be omniscience. Otherwise He's no longer God now is He?
2) Since every word about God in this thread is likely (though admittedly not guaranteed) to be examined with a fine tooth comb, may I point out that you just made the internet a God of sorts?
2.5) We all have God(s). We all believe in and worship [i]something[/i]. [i]If [/i]there is a God with the characteristics He would have, no wonder He's not thrilled that we choose other stuff instead of Him as our God...
3) There is [i]not[/i] infinite source of information on the internet. Only what we have put on it up to any given point in time...
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[quote name='tstrimple' timestamp='1295633681' post='4762538']
I would say it is because religions are created by men. For instance, the Church selected what documents regarding the life of Jesus are accepted as canon. Do you think it was in the Church's best interest to select those most favorable to their existence? The whole new testament was not divinely inspired, but selected and edited by a Church with it's own agenda. Therefore, even if Jesus was real and the true son of God, what is in the bible does not necessarily represent his life and message.
[/quote]
this is actually very very wrong.

The bible is actually one of the most accurate historic documents to it's original text around. Compared to other historical texts it's accuracy to it's original copies from around a couple hundred years AD to now is pretty solid.

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=909
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[quote name='tstrimple' timestamp='1295637208' post='4762569']
So you're saying that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha"]Apocrypha[/url] don't exist and that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon"]construction of the bible[/url] was not a long, drawn out political process? I'm not saying the existing gospels aren't accurate compared to their original document, I'm saying that the Church picked the gospels that most supported them while leaving out dozens of other texts that were just as "accurate" as those included in the bible.
[/quote]

You are jumping to a conclusion that is not entirely accurate. Books are added or left out of different versions of the Bible for similar reasons that a basic chemistry book doesn't contain sections on astro-physics. The Bible is meant to be the divinely inspired word of God written by man. It makes sense that only the books that are believed to be divinely inspired be in there. You are more than welcome to compile your own version of the bible with every gospel and every scripture ever written
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295618678' post='4762393']
[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295605249' post='4762305']
Religion is the clever explanation of WHY everything turns into misery in your life. The fact that it is spread by morons doesn't take the truth away from it. The best thing the devil did was convincing everyone that the truth can only be found in one place.
[/quote]

I am sorry you feel that way, but clearly you have never studied Christianity or Buddhism.
[/quote]

Excuse me sherlock, how did you come to that conclusion based on what I said? The sermon of the mountain accounts pretty much for my first statement. The amount of pedophile priests for the second in relation to the first. And the third is just a personal appreciation.
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295640580' post='4762610']
Excuse me sherlock, how did you come to that conclusion based on what I said? The sermon of the mountain accounts pretty much for my first statement. The amount of pedophile priests for the second in relation to the first. And the third is just a personal appreciation.
[/quote]

In what way does the sermon on the mount tell you why your life is miserable?
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295641287' post='4762617']
[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295640580' post='4762610']
Excuse me sherlock, how did you come to that conclusion based on what I said? The sermon of the mountain accounts pretty much for my first statement. The amount of pedophile priests for the second in relation to the first. And the third is just a personal appreciation.
[/quote]

In what way does the sermon on the mount tell you why your life is miserable?
[/quote]

Which part of the sermon on the mount doesn't sound like a beautiful (yet possibly utopic) advice to you?
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295638901' post='4762587']
[quote name='tstrimple' timestamp='1295637208' post='4762569']
So you're saying that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha"]Apocrypha[/url] don't exist and that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon"]construction of the bible[/url] was not a long, drawn out political process? I'm not saying the existing gospels aren't accurate compared to their original document, I'm saying that the Church picked the gospels that most supported them while leaving out dozens of other texts that were just as "accurate" as those included in the bible.
[/quote]

You are jumping to a conclusion that is not entirely accurate. Books are added or left out of different versions of the Bible for similar reasons that a basic chemistry book doesn't contain sections on astro-physics. The Bible is meant to be the divinely inspired word of God written by man. It makes sense that only the books that are believed to be divinely inspired be in there. You are more than welcome to compile your own version of the bible with every gospel and every scripture ever written
[/quote]

The bible is really a political construction of its integration as the state religion of the Roman Empire after Constantine. Ever wonder why Christmas is in December, yet his birth was supposed to be contemporaneous with lambings? Chalk that one up to Saturnalia.
And damn near every major religion is like that. Confucianism and Buddhism were likewise constantly edited, recompiled and reinterpreted in China
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295641888' post='4762622']
Which part of the sermon on the mount doesn't sound like a beautiful (yet possibly utopic) advice to you?
[/quote]
how does that correlate to telling you why you are miserable?
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295643112' post='4762631']
[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295641888' post='4762622']
Which part of the sermon on the mount doesn't sound like a beautiful (yet possibly utopic) advice to you?
[/quote]
how does that correlate to telling you why you are miserable?
[/quote]

According to Jebus, worring about what you'll eat and what you will wear tomorrow is an incesesary concern. Pretty much the kind of concern that make most of us miserable.
How does that not correlates to what I was saying? Or more importantly, why didn't you see the relation?
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295644181' post='4762640']
According to Jebus, worring about what you'll eat and what you will wear tomorrow is an incesesary concern. Pretty much the kind of concern that make most of us miserable.
How does that not correlates to what I was saying? Or more importantly, why didn't you see the relation?
[/quote]
telling someone something that will make them less miserable is not the same as telling them why they are miserable.
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[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1295621661' post='4762422']
[quote]
"good" by what standards and who gets to say that standard is valid/correct? That's the thing and I never will understand this argument.
[/quote]

We have been through this again, haven't we? :P

Ok, example...Say person A is a "good Christian".Behaves *exactly* like a good Christian would do. That is, pray to God the "correct way"(whatever that means), respect his family and others, try to help whenever others ask for his help, use his talents to help other people and himself of course. Of course he/she will make mistakes too. Now, imagine the same person, doing the exact same things, but not caring about religion, that is, not go out of his way to "convert" people into atheists, but just doesn't show interest in the whole "God" thing either. According to your religtion, how do you classify that person? Is it even possible that this person has already been given the "grace" by God and doesn't know it, because religion in their eyes seems a bit monolithic? I'm only asking this time, I know you feel strongly about your religion and I'm just interested to hear the answer on this.[/quote]
Scripture is very clear on the subject. A person is not condemned because of their behavior. They're condemned because of their rejection of God and his gift of salvation to cover their sin.

[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1295621661' post='4762422']
[quote]
If you believe God as stated in the Bible is real, then believing what you've stated here is silly because the Bible says your belief is invalid. You can't have it both ways.
[/quote]

The Bible does mention people that have "the Law written in their hearts", doesn't it Machaira?
[/quote]
Yes, but in context those people are Christians.

[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1295621661' post='4762422']
Let's not kid ourselves. Religion and words written in books cannot make you "experience" God. They can only confirm what you already feel, and of course that's a big thing, but it's a means, not the end. And the choise of religion is most times cultural and based in your upbringing. It would be *much* better if some people tried to find where the 3 great monotheistic religions(Islam, Judaism, Christianism) converge, instead of the other way around. Jesus specifically mentioned those that are able to reconcile great past differences as "blessed" and "children of God". [/quote]
Source and context?

[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1295621661' post='4762422']
Of course, Jesus is arguably the most irrelevant character in most Christian doctrine today
[/quote]
If a church's doctrine doesn't talk about Jesus, I'd question their "Christianity". [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]

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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295644984' post='4762651']
[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295644181' post='4762640']
According to Jebus, worring about what you'll eat and what you will wear tomorrow is an incesesary concern. Pretty much the kind of concern that make most of us miserable.
How does that not correlates to what I was saying? Or more importantly, why didn't you see the relation?
[/quote]
telling someone something that will make them less miserable is not the same as telling them why they are miserable.
[/quote]


If I told you [i]"do not catch yourself on fire"[/i] in order to avoid being miserable, wouldn't you consider [i]"catching yourself on fire"[/i] the reason of being miserable?


Maybe for nitpickers like you it should be worded a little clearer like: "If you don't want to be miserable do not catch yourself on fire. Because catching yourself on fire is the reason why you feel miserable". Just to be safe that everyone will get it.

That makes sense for you now uh? :)
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295638901' post='4762587']
[quote name='tstrimple' timestamp='1295637208' post='4762569']
So you're saying that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha"]Apocrypha[/url] don't exist and that the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_New_Testament_canon"]construction of the bible[/url] was not a long, drawn out political process? I'm not saying the existing gospels aren't accurate compared to their original document, I'm saying that the Church picked the gospels that most supported them while leaving out dozens of other texts that were just as "accurate" as those included in the bible.
[/quote]

You are jumping to a conclusion that is not entirely accurate. Books are added or left out of different versions of the Bible for similar reasons that a basic chemistry book doesn't contain sections on astro-physics. The Bible is meant to be the divinely inspired word of God written by man. It makes sense that only the books that are believed to be divinely inspired be in there. You are more than welcome to compile your own version of the bible with every gospel and every scripture ever written
[/quote]

And it's men with an agenda who determine what is divinely inspired. Never mind the fact that there were many factions of the Christian faith that all had their own views on what was divinely inspired and what wasn't. What you read as the bible today is just the version the winners decided on, nothing else. If you're secure enough in your beliefs to do some research on the subject, you should really read about some of the work that biblical scholars have done.
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295645794' post='4762662']
If I told you [i]"do not catch yourself on fire"[/i] in order to avoid being miserable, wouldn't you consider [i]"catching yourself on fire"[/i] the reason of being miserable?
[/quote]
not if I'm drowning. The advice "do not catch yourself on fire" is a good lesson for a drowning person on how to make their life better, but being on fire is in no way their problem.
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[quote name='tstrimple' timestamp='1295648144' post='4762672']
And it's men with an agenda who determine what is divinely inspired. Never mind the fact that there were many factions of the Christian faith that all had their own views on what was divinely inspired and what wasn't. What you read as the bible today is just the version the winners decided on, nothing else. If you're secure enough in your beliefs to do some research on the subject, you should really read about some of the work that biblical scholars have done.
[/quote]

it's people with agendas that do everything. People with agendas do theoretical physics, run wallstreet, rule the world, write music, dig ditches, enforce the law, break the law, cook food, teach others, and even make games.

Do you hold them at such a high standard? When you go to a steakhouse do you storm into the kitchens shouting, "HEY NOW CHEF GUY! What's your agenda putting this steak here in front of me like this? Are you trying to corrupt me in an attempt to take over the planet with delicious flavor? I have it on good authority that you use only certain cuts of beef on your menu. Why don't you include all the other parts of cow? Why not other animals? Do you have something against rabbits or various types of fowl? Where's the manager... I bet he's in on this. He's probably trying to put that nice sushi place down the road out of business. Speaking of! Why the hell don't you serve sushi so we can all decide for ourselves what we want to eat?! Fascists..."

Is it so hard to believe that people who dedicate their lives to spreading the word of God might just have the agenda to spread the word of God? Why search for something more complicated?
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295652344' post='4762712']
[quote name='owl' timestamp='1295645794' post='4762662']
If I told you [i]"do not catch yourself on fire"[/i] in order to avoid being miserable, wouldn't you consider [i]"catching yourself on fire"[/i] the reason of being miserable?
[/quote]
not if I'm drowning. The advice "do not catch yourself on fire" is a good lesson for a drowning person on how to make their life better, but being on fire is in no way their problem.
[/quote]

[img]http://uploads.gamedev5.net/1295491189/gallery_16415_98_14447.jpg[/img]
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A lot of you guys have false views of the Christian faith, and I would guess any other religion that was mentioned in this thread. For example, Paladine said that there was a point in time when Jesus wasn't God. This isn't true, according to the Bible Jesus always existed and always was part of the trinity. You don't have to believe that he exists in the first place, but if you are going to argue against his existance you should make sure you know the opposing side's claims.

Anyway, who cares? Just believe what you want to believe.
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I can't comprehend one thing.
Why the **** I read every Comment.
Real or not, Might as well thing somethings real, if there's nothing, Atheist cant make fun of you :D
or don't
Why make a conversation about something no one has proof to, nor can prove true or false.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1295653176' post='4762723']
it's people with agendas that do everything. People with agendas do theoretical physics, run wallstreet, rule the world, write music, dig ditches, enforce the law, break the law, cook food, teach others, and even make games.

Do you hold them at such a high standard? When you go to a steakhouse do you storm into the kitchens shouting, "HEY NOW CHEF GUY! What's your agenda putting this steak here in front of me like this? Are you trying to corrupt me in an attempt to take over the planet with delicious flavor? I have it on good authority that you use only certain cuts of beef on your menu. Why don't you include all the other parts of cow? Why not other animals? Do you have something against rabbits or various types of fowl? Where's the manager... I bet he's in on this. He's probably trying to put that nice sushi place down the road out of business. Speaking of! Why the hell don't you serve sushi so we can all decide for ourselves what we want to eat?! Fascists..."

Is it so hard to believe that people who dedicate their lives to spreading the word of God might just have the agenda to spread the word of God? Why search for something more complicated?
[/quote]

I'll respond even though you're starting to sound like a troll...

It's ignorant to believe the Church's sole or even primary agenda is to spread the word of God. [b]Especially [/b]during the time the gospels were being chosen for the bible. Their agenda was control and self perpetuation and any honest look at the Church's history will reveal that. It was in the Church's best interest to choose the gospels they did while excluding others that could have undermined their authority.
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The 700 club had a $350,000 challenge on TV last night. They claim "do not worry about money, God watches over the poor" - but give us money to give to the poor, and we'll probably keep some of it.

I've seen people selling "holy bread" and "holy water" for great amounts of money, promising that if they eat the bread and drink the water, and then pray, whatever you pray for will come true. This is on national television.

These types of things are sanctioned by churches. Big churches.

So tell me again that religion hasn't been used as leverage - it's happening as we speak. And not small factions - hundreds of thousands of people involved.
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