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reason i love my wife

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[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298833323' post='4779759']
Furthermore, specifying a specific python version in the shebang is really quite crude, especially since he supports multiple python versions. There's no way to exclude particular versions in the shebang.[/quote]

[quote]There's no guarantee people have that version, so you're artificially limiting the usefulness of your code, which is just plain retarded.[/quote]In fact, there is such a guarantee. I don't know how they do it in RPM land, but on Debian with derivatives all you need to do if you want a particular Python version is to have your package depend on it - 2.4, 2.6 and 3.1 are all in the official repos.
Apparently Python 2.6 features were so crucial he had to get rid of Python if he couldn't have them, so I don't see what's retarded about making that dependency official.

[quote]And even further, you're doing it wrong. You're not guaranteed to find a python executable at /usr/bin/ so we've been forced to use #!/usr/bin/env python for a while now, because *nix is a clusterfuck with regard to where things might actually be.[/quote]Are there any actual distros that put Python anywhere but /usr/bin?

[quote]He could easily however, do something like this:

[code]
import sys
if sys.version_info.major == 2 and sys.version_info.minor < 6:
print "Oh noes!"
exit()
[/code]
[/quote]Well, my main point wasn't "shebang line saves the day" but "state your dependencies properly and perhaps add a version check, and you've solved the problem." :)

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So the wife and I got a new mexican last weekend. It has been 5 years since we got a new one, so the specs seemed off the charts compared to the one we had. We had mayonnaise in the old one before she died.

So we bring this mexican home. I boot her up, its got a penis. I am thinking to myself, she used penis before and liked it...

Err maybe I should have chose different words...[img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]

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With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.

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[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298835631' post='4779782']
With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]I don't know what world you live in, but where I live, responding to someone sharing an anecdote and a couple of reasons why they prefer a certain operating system over another with "good thing your wife is as dumb as you are, or she'd leave you in a heartbeat" would usually earn you a broken nose, and with good reason.

But then again, the lounge is just 4chan plus "like"-buttons after all, so I guess being the Internet tough guy is the cool thing to do, eh?

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[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298835631' post='4779782']
With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]

So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?

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[quote name='Aardvajk' timestamp='1298836691' post='4779792']
[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298835631' post='4779782']
With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]

So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?
[/quote]

There's really no reason to be so upset, if people are being unhelpful or unfriendly, you can always rate down those posts. This community can police itself. Just imagine if one could only be voted up... say goodbye to the need to be polite and not engage in personal attacks.

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[quote name='speciesUnknown' timestamp='1298837238' post='4779796']
There's really no reason to be so upset, if people are being unhelpful or unfriendly, you can always rate down those posts. This community can police itself. Just imagine if one could only be voted up... say goodbye to the need to be polite and not engage in personal attacks.
[/quote]

Well, irony understood. In the absence of rate down, I guess we just have to speak up when things are unfair/clearly wrong/trolling and rely on public debate rather than a silly little number at the bottom of our posts.

My biggest problem with the site overhaul is that lounge posts now show up in the Community list. Nobodies fault but my own for getting dragged in, but I never even used to [i]see[/i] this rubbish on the old site.

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Personally I think trolls and haters are actually good for the internet and internet communities. They cause new and childish people on the internet to emotionally mature and accept criticism without bating an eye. I've had people berate me and make a fool of me for minor mistakes. I honestly think it has made me a better person because it helped me see that other's opinions of me are just that opinions. I think comments like the one Mike made are nothing more than constructive criticism and I see nothing wrong with what he said even though it may have been a bit personal but that's something everyone on the internet should learn to take with a grain of salt.

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[quote name='SteveDeFacto' timestamp='1298837492' post='4779804']
Personally I think trolls and haters are actually good for the internet and internet communities. They cause new and childish people on the internet to emotionally mature and accept criticism without bating an eye. I've had people berate me and make a fool of me for minor mistakes. I honestly think it has made me a better person because it helped me see that other's opinions of me are just that opinions. I think comments like the one Mike made are nothing more than constructive criticism and I see nothing wrong with what he said even though it may have been a bit personal but that's something everyone on the internet should learn to take with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

I agree with most of that. I've also been bashed to hell and back and it has certainly made me a lot more considerate about what I post.

However, I equally reserve the right, since this is a public forum, to call out something that I think is unreasonable. I was doing exactly this in Mike's journal in his favour not more than a few weeks ago.

From my point of view, the presence or absence of a rating system is completely irrelevant in this. If you want to act like a kid, there are plenty of other sites that will appreciate it. I'd rather GDNet stayed mature personally and I'd say the same whether there was a rate-down button or not.

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[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1298836524' post='4779789']
I don't know what world you live in, but where I live, responding to someone sharing an anecdote and a couple of reasons why they prefer a certain operating system over another with "good thing your wife is as dumb as you are, or she'd leave you in a heartbeat" would usually earn you a broken nose, and with good reason.

But then again, the lounge is just 4chan plus "like"-buttons after all, so I guess being the Internet tough guy is the cool thing to do, eh?
[/quote]
There are no broken noses on the internet. Your white knightery is amusing.

[quote name='Aardvajk' timestamp='1298836691' post='4779792']
So you think it is valid to start throwing mud at the integrity of the relationship of a married couple due to a preference over operating systems?

We're not talking about the internet, we are talking about GDNet (albeit the lounge) and I'd hope most of us would expect better. But perhaps that is just me being an idealist or something.

I'm quite sure that "honest commentary that was implicitly asked for and was delivered" did not include making slights about the OP's relationship with his wife. Are you married, AndrewBC?
[/quote]

I'm not sure I would use the term "valid", because that terminology suggests that you and I share the same views on social behavior in all regards. We don't; No one does. When you say something in a public place, however, people could respond with anything. The very act of saying something in a public place, therefore, is an implicit invitation to commentary. Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.

I'm not interested in acting like your ideals, because nothing is really sacred no matter how many people stick their heads in the sand. If you can't handle someone saying something offensive to you, feel free to plug up your ears or find a censorship dictator to coerce everyone around you.

And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that. :)

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[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298838592' post='4779812']
Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.
[/quote]

I'm not outraged at all. I was just calmly raising an objection to a post I felt was unfair. I'm confused as to how you would consider my comment to be of the "omg you shutup" variety since I think I actually made my point more clearly than that.

You seem to have stepped in on Mike's behalf. I should make it clear that I have an enormous amount of respect for Mike both as a professional and a person and would far rather be debating this issue with him rather than you. I suspect that the debate would be far less reactionary.

[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298838592' post='4779812']
I'm not interested in acting like your ideals, because nothing is really sacred no matter how many people stick their heads in the sand. If you can't handle someone saying something offensive to you, feel free to plug up your ears or find a censorship dictator to coerce everyone around you.
[/quote]

I'm quite happy to have offensive things said to me. I just reserve the right to riposte.

[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298838592' post='4779812']
And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that. :)
[/quote]

Snarky comments aren't really my style. I was just wondering whether you understood what it would feel like.

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[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298835631' post='4779782']
With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]

Oh come on. "Maybe she wouldn't [b]bother sticking around"[/b] was an "honest commentary"? Whatever. That's trolling of the highest degree. All because he made a like-Ubunty thread?

The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.

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[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1298839150' post='4779819']
The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.
[/quote]

Yeah, I somewhat doubt that's going to be the case...

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[quote name='Aardvajk' timestamp='1298839013' post='4779817']
[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298838592' post='4779812']
Just because you're outraged on his behalf doesn't mean suddenly no one will or can't say something bad about it, or about you, or about someone's reply to you (like mine). The only tactic this particular subset of society has now to express aligned social interest or disinterest is either "omg you shutup" comments, or mods coming in and censoring people. Downvoting no longer available makes this obviously ridiculous, and thus I ridicule. Hah. Hah hah.
[/quote]

I'm not outraged at all. I was just calmly raising an objection to a post I felt was unfair. I'm confused as to how you would consider my comment to be of the "omg you shutup" variety since I think I actually made my point more clearly than that.

You seem to have stepped in on Mike's behalf. I should make it clear that I have an enormous amount of respect for Mike both as a professional and a person and would far rather be debating this issue with him rather than you. I suspect that the debate would be far less reactionary.
[/quote]
I did not intend for you to read into my "omg you shutup" line as if I were saying that your posts were of that style. That was just an example to point out that there is either conversational discourse as a recourse, or the other example I mentioned. Outraged is another bit of colorful overemphasis added, you clearly care to some degree or we wouldn't be talking.

I also think that you thought I was saying stepping in on someone's behalf in a derogatory sense. I wasn't, but nice try on making me eat my own actions. :)


[quote name='Aardvajk' timestamp='1298839013' post='4779817']
[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298838592' post='4779812']
And no, I'm not married. Feel free to make snarky comments about that. :)
[/quote]

Snarky comments aren't really my style. I was just wondering whether you understood what it would feel like.
[/quote]


I've had much worse said about me for choices I didn't make that also had no possibility to be true. So fucking what?

[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1298839150' post='4779819']
[quote name='AndrewBC' timestamp='1298835631' post='4779782']
With regard to the people calling MikeP's post harsh:
Boy it must suck to live in a world where honest commentary that was implicitly asked for was delivered. Does it make you sad to know that people probably hate you for no reason, and some probably hate you for a reason, and some of those people and reasons might actually be valid? Welcome to the internet.
[/quote]

Oh come on. "Maybe she wouldn't [b]bother sticking around"[/b] was an "honest commentary"? Whatever. That's trolling of the highest degree. All because he made a like-Ubunty thread?

The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.
[/quote]
Oh you think he's being disingenuous? I disagree, sir, I am fairly certain MikeP actually did think up his [b]conjecture[/b] all on his own.

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[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1298824753' post='4779698']
[quote name='MaulingMonkey' timestamp='1298788719' post='4779554']
Funny you should mention [url="http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1285063820.html"]python[/url]
[/quote]Disregarding the irony of a developer depending on Python 2.x complaining about distros are shipping old versions, why not simply put Python 2.6 as a dependency and explicitly specify #!/usr/bin/python2.6 rather than #!/usr/bin/python as the first line of any executable script?[/quote]
Oh, sure, you can hand pick a specific dependency revision and add the ability to compile it into your toolchain -- maybe even check it into your main repository for outright OCD levels of control.

That this kind of thing is necessary, however, defeats much of the purpose of having a central repository in the first place I'd argue, however, and certainly any convenience advantages of repositories over "downloading from websites". Don't get me wrong, the idea is great -- it's just that depending on a horde of (unpaid?) volunteers to keep all the relevant packages up to date and working cleanly, including for the "less common use cases" (such as multiple versions side by side), can add... significant delays and more.


[quote](Also, complaining about incompatible "broken" Python versions when your application is written in Ruby, a language with no official specification, seems... odd.)[/quote]
Not too odd when you think about it. Python's been a bit more willing to aggressively improve (and in doing so, break backwards comparability) in their language. Just because Ruby lacks a spec doesn't mean it's less stable -- which is the main compounding factor for these matters, making version picking more important.

[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1298835382' post='4779777']In fact, there is such a guarantee. I don't know how they do it in RPM land[/quote]
Presumably using mechanisms such as "alternatives" as mentioned in the article, which according to TFA horribly breaks itself when upgrading python on a number of systems?

Don't get me wrong, Linux is a pretty cool guy, eh powers servers and doesn't afraid of anything -- and I guess the OP might be able to better lock it down so his wife can't install the latest round of facebook trojans since it "[url="http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2008/06/at-least-we-dont-have-any-viruses.html"]doesn't have viruses[/url]" (heh). And I guess it works as one method to [s]install[/s] [b]uninstall[/b] OEM crap (conveniently ignoring that installing windows properly does this too).

Even some of the linux users can be insightful. Unfortunately, this thread doesn't seem to be -- you're seriously trying to argue for linux on backwards compatibility grounds? Try fiddling with window's comparability options next time. Meanwhile, WineHQ calls [url="http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=3507"]this atrocious counter strike comparability[/url] "platinum". When it crashes and makes entire program features unusable, that's "silver". Hilarious.

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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1298839754' post='4779821']
[quote name='mikeman' timestamp='1298839150' post='4779819']
The funny thing about people like MikeP is that they genuinely think they're intelligent. Sucks to be them in a decade or so, when they realize they're actually not.
[/quote]

Yeah, I somewhat doubt that's going to be the case...
[/quote]

You're right I guess. Some people like to delude themselves. Oh well...

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Interesting. I vouch the opinion to a respected member of this site that something he posted was, in my humble opinion, "a bit harsh" and a bunch of lounge lizards who, from their posting history, don't actually seem to be doing anything productive, wade in on the behalf of someone who really doesn't require their input and help the topic descend into purile nonsense.

Do you not have anything better to do? Like actually doing some programming or something? Man, the fricking lounge.

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This thread was purile nonsense from the very beginning.

And no, it's the weekend, I'm sitting here in a house with no furniture at all, barely working internet over a tethered cellphone, and no comfortable position in which to focus long enough to code, no tech/hobby related meetups this weekend, and no friends free to go do something with. I quite literally have nothing better to do. Do you have something else to entertain you up on that vaporous high horse?

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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1298841057' post='4779834']
You can tell how productive someone is via their posting history? wut? o.O
[/quote]

Well, call me old fashioned for caring about GDNet but posting history used to be a good indication of actual contribution to GDNet rather that lizard-level rambling. Clearly I'm out of date.

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