Jump to content
  • Advertisement

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Red Ant

Memory question

This topic is 6106 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I''m currently trying to write an application whose aim is to record some of the data produced by another application (namely Talonsoft''s The Operational Art of War ). Now here''s what I wanna do. In TOAW the player has the ability to open a window and see how many pieces of what equipment are available/have been lost/are replaced per turn. The problem is these numbers are the sums of all losses/replacements from the beginning of the game ''till the current turn. I want to find out in which section of the memory the program stores this information so I can have my application access the same memory and record the data turn for turn so I can later create some tables and graphs from this data to allow a much more thorough analysis of the losses taken by both sides. I''ve been messing with MS VC++ 6.0''s debugger to find out where in the memory the game puts the numbers I need but to no avail (I guess I haven''t really learnt how to use this tool effectively yet). Can you guys maybe give me a few hints how you''d go about this? Thanks in advance. Best regards, Markus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
Let me just set the record strait ... you are on a game development site ... asking how to hack someone elses program?

What you want to do is obviously valuable to the player ... and player community .. IF that''s something talonsoft has in mind for their game ... BUT .. they have the copyright, which means they have exclusive rights to create the type of add-on you are suggeting. Also, their EULA almost definately prohibits what you are attempting (usually banned as reverse engineering of the product, or creating cheats and player aids).

What you want to do ... if it really is just for documentation / summary purposes ... sounds great ... but there is only one correct way to do it - Get permission from Talonsoft.

This is usually a lot easier than you think ... IF they like what you''re suggesting. Simply write to them describing you proposed add-on ... and tell them what information about the game you need ... They then have 4 options:

1. They tell you ... no way.
2. They give you permission to do it, but do not offer information or assistance ... due to lack of monetary compensation.
3. They decide to assist you, giving you the information they have available.
4. They decide to release publicly that / or some set of information ... for the purpose of creating add-ons ...This is highly unlikely ... BUT they could wrap it in a simple API to release ...

What you were originally suggesting is to be told how to reverse engineer game operation by analyzing data changes ... no-one is going to help you on this ... not because it isn''t a great technique or technically interesting ... but because it is too powerfull and dangerous ... everyone would rather the number of people with the skill you seek is kept to a minimum - because it is EXACTLY the skill which allowed Diablo to be hacked so sucessfully, and Everquest to be hacked AND have forbidden game aids released .... There''s a fine line between game aids and cheats ... in fact the line is this: if the game creator desires it - it''s an aid ... otherwise it''s a cheat.

Good Luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Trying to "intercept" some of the data from an application is considered hacking it??? Look I''m not even trying to modify the game itself at all. I merely seek to write an application that somehow interacts with it. Is that really illegal??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Xai
This is usually a lot easier than you think ... IF they like what you're suggesting. Simply write to them describing you proposed add-on ...


Oh and by the way, so far I have never succeeded in getting a reply out of Talonsoft. They don't even f***ing answer the questions in their own damn support forum.



Edited by - Red Ant on September 5, 2001 3:54:24 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SoftICE is one of the common tools that is used to look into what programs are doing, but all you get is assembly. Typically, you search memory for patterns matching what you see on the screen. However, most games nowadays at least use XOR masking, if not more clever methods, to discourage this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
First of all, just my opinion that we should be able to do whatever we want with software, its on our system, its our random series of bits!

and this doesnt seem like anykind of a hack at all.

lastly, about the XOR masking of values and all that.. they do that??? isnt that unneeded bloating?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Absolutely. I refer you to the incredibly interesting article on Gamasutra:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20000724/pritchard_01.htm
"How to Hurt the Hackers: The Scoop on Internet Cheating and How You Can Combat It"

Specifically, Page 3 talks about XOR masking and never referring to a variable from a globally fixed memory position.

It''s a great read, I highly recommend it.

PS: I agree with your opinions about doing whatever you want with the software that uses your system. Just as long as you don''t try to make any profit from anyone else''s IP, you should be able to do whatever you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great article! Thanks for posting the link. I will somehow make this work, and if it''s the last thing I do! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Advertisement
×

Important Information

By using GameDev.net, you agree to our community Guidelines, Terms of Use, and Privacy Policy.

Participate in the game development conversation and more when you create an account on GameDev.net!

Sign me up!