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do i use to make games like ff7 etc. i know qbasic... and am a total beginner in VC++... if i should program in a different language then those to i will do so... thanks in advance! lots of woulda coulda shouldas sittin in the sun thinkin about things they woulda coulda shoulda done... but all the woulda coulda shouldas ran away and hid from one little did

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What language do you make FF7 in? I thought it was C++??

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

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Guest Anonymous Poster
Also DapQB, you are new to the game, so here are a few pointers..

I know what you are thinking, we all thunk it at one time or another. "G, this QB stuff is a cinch, i''ll just figure out what the pros used to make game XYZ and then i''ll learn about it and i can then do the same thing!" I dont want to burst your bubble, but it dont work that way!!!! I can hear you already, "AW MAN" "WHATEVER, I KNOW IM GOOD"

The name of the game for all professional computer games is simply this: DATA STRUCTURES.

What are they?

Data structures are theoretical concepts put into daily use by software developers. They are literally structures of data, and the algorithms that are used to manipulate them. What is an algorithm? Quite simply it is a procedure by wich something gets done. Such as an "algorithm" that draws a line from point A to point B.

Other data structures include: Linked Lists(normal, circular etc), Stacks, Queues,priorety queues etc., Search Trees and tree traversal algo''s(including binary, multiway,B-trees,AVL,RedBlack,this list goes on), Heaps, Graphs, sorting algos and this list goes on too..

The point is, before you get to involved with trying to figure out how to use directX, openGL and all that other stuff, try to build a solid foundation that has nothing to do with the current industry and all to do with how that industry was built in the first place. All of the above are taught using standard console applications. That is because graphics and games are built around managing your data. So first learn to MANAGE YOUR DATA, and then take the step up into the messy world of Microsoft API''s, windows, and graphics!!

Recommended books for you:
1)NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS, OR VISUAL C++ in 21 DAYS
2)Almost anything to do with "introduction to computer science"
3)Almost anything to do with "Data Structures"
4)At this point, nothing to do with Windows/DirectX/OpenGL

Things you need to know:
1)first, learn your way around the visual C++ compiler.
2)get a good feel for the standard library
3)get a book on beginning c++, not on using MFC, there is a difference.

The Microsoft Foundation classes are used to aid programmers in developing windows applications, exactly what you want to avoid at this point. Remember, you want to feel comfortable managing your DATA before you jump into windows, GUI''s, and graphics.

Learn about variables, functions, POINTERS, object and procedurally oriented programming, what a call stack, heap, statically and dynamically allocated memory is. Learn about strings and how to allocate them, copy and manipulate them, the differences between short, long, unsigned, const, static, and other such variable types including ints, char''s floats, doubles and how to input and output all and manipulate the output.

Learn how to use arrays, 2d arrays, classes, structures, file-I/O and the like. Once you have the basics down, and can efficiently make use of the standard library, then begin learning the different types of data structures. Once you get a good grasp on the most important and basic structures, then try and build more complicated programs using them. Such as a large multi-treed database search engine, with multiple menu options and situations such as adding, deleting, editing customers and their orders for instance. Include options such as searching via ID numbers, phone, or order numbers. Include options for printing customer information, and order information for each specific order, add product waitlists and customer remarks. Make sure that you store your data on disk. Also take note, if your database is 2gigs, but you only have 70 megs of ram, you need to figure out efficent methods of loading files or else you wont have any memory. The customer database is one of the most commonly used teachers in programming because it requires many concepts to be practiced.

The reason a lot of people get burned out on game programming is because much of it has to do with the above. Programmers spend most of their time MANAGING THEIR DATA, and not tinkering with cool special effects and other fun things. Why do people go to college and study computer science? Because in college they teach you to manage and optimize you data, without mentioning a single API, Operating System, or industry specific method of doing things. (until you take those specific senior courses!) Most of the time, you learn about data structures, analyizing them, and the mathmatical reasoning behind them. So learn to master your data, and build anything!! Learn an API or how to "use" C++, and struggle to keep up with the changes. Its your choice! C++ will be gone one day, but the chances that a solid foundation of mathmatically based knowledge will change are less likely, especially in your working lifetime.

So just remember this, Once you master your data, you can do anything!!

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Guest Anonymous Poster
was FF7 written in C++???
i thought it was first done for the PSX console before being ported to the PC

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quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
was FF7 written in C++???
i thought it was first done for the PSX console before being ported to the PC


What language do you think they used for PSX development... PSX++ ?

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I''d have to guess that FF7 was programmed in C++ on the PSX, and then modified to some extent for the port to PC. Not that they did a very good job of it...

Anyhow, let''s not get too far off course here. I''m responding to the post previous to this listing books that the author thought would be helpful. The problem is, no title was ever mentioned, so I thought I''d toss out at least one. "Thinking in C++" by Bruce Eckel. This has been my bible over the last few months. It''s downloadable free from www.bruceeckel.com, or you can buy it in most bookstores.

This book is a bit heavy for a brand-new programmer, but it''s written very clearly with fantastic code examples to illustrate the points.

Good luck!

Keep it snuggly!
~Subliminal Love~

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I''d have to guess that FF7 was programmed in C++ on the PSX, and then modified to some extent for the port to PC. Not that they did a very good job of it...

Anyhow, let''s not get too far off course here. I''m responding to the post previous to this listing books that the author thought would be helpful. The problem is, no title was ever mentioned, so I thought I''d toss out at least one. "Thinking in C++" by Bruce Eckel. This has been my bible over the last few months. It''s downloadable free from www.bruceeckel.com, or you can buy it in most bookstores.

This book is a bit heavy for a brand-new programmer, but it''s written very clearly with fantastic code examples to illustrate the points.

Good luck!

Keep it snuggly!
~Subliminal Love~

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i would be very surprised if FF7 for the PSX was written in C++.

i would assume that most of the game specifc code is C and the rest ( math routines, the final renderer,etc. ) is assembly.






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Don''t they create thier own "type" or "method" of doing C++? Thier own libraries and include files?

By the way, one person could''nt make FF7, not within a human life span, if you were and elf like me, especially a dark elf, maybe then you could do it. But you will need a team to make a game like that.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

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hmmmm .. do you know any links to "assembly" instructions for
the psx. ?? .. I didnt know you can do assembly on a psx.
I always thought you have to use the psx API ..



{ Stating the obvious never helped any situation !! }

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actually i plan on getting a team Mr. Dark Elf ... and i don''t intend on that being my first program(DUH!!!) but c++ is the language to use?

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The PSX is just a glorified MIPS processor, you can code in assembly on the PSX to your heart''s content.

Also, the C++ library for PSX that Sony shipped was horribly buggy, and 90% of games for PSX were written in C (also, most PSX developers are Japanese, and those guys are just crazy ). The PSX 2 C++ libraries are much better, so we should see more C++ developement on the PSX.

Outside the PC market, the majority of games are written in C.

Personally, I couldn''t write a large-ish program without my classes and virtual functions and templates


codeka.com - Just click it.

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Guest Anonymous Poster

yup. my past two projects, one n64 and one n64/dreamcast combo, were all c and assembly. but now that we''re onto a ps2/gamecube project and that the gnu c++ compiliers for these systems are to the point were they can actually produce code thats as fast as the c equivalent we are slowly starting the move to c++.

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I Respect what you said here AP and I agree . I''m a beginner too that needs alot of help


quote:
Original post by Anonymous Poster
Also DapQB, you are new to the game, so here are a few pointers..

I know what you are thinking, we all thunk it at one time or another. "G, this QB stuff is a cinch, i''ll just figure out what the pros used to make game XYZ and then i''ll learn about it and i can then do the same thing!" I dont want to burst your bubble, but it dont work that way!!!! I can hear you already, "AW MAN" "WHATEVER, I KNOW IM GOOD"

The name of the game for all professional computer games is simply this: DATA STRUCTURES.

What are they?

Data structures are theoretical concepts put into daily use by software developers. They are literally structures of data, and the algorithms that are used to manipulate them. What is an algorithm? Quite simply it is a procedure by wich something gets done. Such as an "algorithm" that draws a line from point A to point B.

Other data structures include: Linked Lists(normal, circular etc), Stacks, Queues,priorety queues etc., Search Trees and tree traversal algo''s(including binary, multiway,B-trees,AVL,RedBlack,this list goes on), Heaps, Graphs, sorting algos and this list goes on too..

The point is, before you get to involved with trying to figure out how to use directX, openGL and all that other stuff, try to build a solid foundation that has nothing to do with the current industry and all to do with how that industry was built in the first place. All of the above are taught using standard console applications. That is because graphics and games are built around managing your data. So first learn to MANAGE YOUR DATA, and then take the step up into the messy world of Microsoft API''s, windows, and graphics!!

Recommended books for you:
1)NOTHING TO DO WITH WINDOWS, OR VISUAL C++ in 21 DAYS
2)Almost anything to do with "introduction to computer science"
3)Almost anything to do with "Data Structures"
4)At this point, nothing to do with Windows/DirectX/OpenGL

Things you need to know:
1)first, learn your way around the visual C++ compiler.
2)get a good feel for the standard library
3)get a book on beginning c++, not on using MFC, there is a difference.

The Microsoft Foundation classes are used to aid programmers in developing windows applications, exactly what you want to avoid at this point. Remember, you want to feel comfortable managing your DATA before you jump into windows, GUI''s, and graphics.

Learn about variables, functions, POINTERS, object and procedurally oriented programming, what a call stack, heap, statically and dynamically allocated memory is. Learn about strings and how to allocate them, copy and manipulate them, the differences between short, long, unsigned, const, static, and other such variable types including ints, char''s floats, doubles and how to input and output all and manipulate the output.

Learn how to use arrays, 2d arrays, classes, structures, file-I/O and the like. Once you have the basics down, and can efficiently make use of the standard library, then begin learning the different types of data structures. Once you get a good grasp on the most important and basic structures, then try and build more complicated programs using them. Such as a large multi-treed database search engine, with multiple menu options and situations such as adding, deleting, editing customers and their orders for instance. Include options such as searching via ID numbers, phone, or order numbers. Include options for printing customer information, and order information for each specific order, add product waitlists and customer remarks. Make sure that you store your data on disk. Also take note, if your database is 2gigs, but you only have 70 megs of ram, you need to figure out efficent methods of loading files or else you wont have any memory. The customer database is one of the most commonly used teachers in programming because it requires many concepts to be practiced.

The reason a lot of people get burned out on game programming is because much of it has to do with the above. Programmers spend most of their time MANAGING THEIR DATA, and not tinkering with cool special effects and other fun things. Why do people go to college and study computer science? Because in college they teach you to manage and optimize you data, without mentioning a single API, Operating System, or industry specific method of doing things. (until you take those specific senior courses!) Most of the time, you learn about data structures, analyizing them, and the mathmatical reasoning behind them. So learn to master your data, and build anything!! Learn an API or how to "use" C++, and struggle to keep up with the changes. Its your choice! C++ will be gone one day, but the chances that a solid foundation of mathmatically based knowledge will change are less likely, especially in your working lifetime.

So just remember this, Once you master your data, you can do anything!!


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I was old that big companies like square use C++ to create a bunch of lbraries and include files, and practically a whole new language with C++ as its base, to create games. Rather than just using C++ in general, it seems a bit strange. I believe FF7 could be made in C++. Probably even C, since that was the big time language when FF7 was made right? How long do you think it took them.

Well, whether it was made in C++ or not, I suggest you learn C++ anyway, because all of the large companies nowadays require you know C++. So, good luck.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

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