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Zeypher

iPad2


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What's good and what's bad with the new iPad? I'm thinking of getting one, but is it worth my money?
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What exactly are you going to use it for ?

Personally i see very little reason to buy any tablet, portable movieplayers are cheaper, e-book readers are easier to read on, and a netbook/laptop is far better for doing real work.

If you do have something you need/want to do that a tablet would be really good for ask yourself this:
is the Ipad2 better for this than equally priced or cheaper competing products ? (and if it is better, do you really need it to be better ?)
is this thing i need/want to do important enough to motivate the cost ?
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[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1301911981' post='4794133']
What exactly are you going to use it for ?
[/quote]

Good question! I honestly don't know... I like the look and features that it come with. But other than that, I hearing so much hype about it and I don't understand how or why... o_O
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Pros: you can use it to watch movies while lying face down in bed.
Cons: it's far worse than a device you either already own or can obtain for a fraction of the price of an iPad for any other task.

Every single iPad I've seen has been used either as a digital photo frame or as an unwieldy way to play games everyone else got bored with in the early 1990s. (Seriously, [i]Angry Birds[/i] is the biggest name on the platform, for crying out loud!)
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There are a lot of cheaper (arguably better) tablets released since CES. The Asus EEE ep121 is an AWESOME one, and comes with a wireless keyboard so you can, in theory, use it like a normal laptop. Not sure how well their stand dealie guy would work on an airplane, but it looks like it would work fine at home.
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[quote name='Zeypher' timestamp='1301912137' post='4794136']
[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1301911981' post='4794133']
What exactly are you going to use it for ?
[/quote]

Good question! I honestly don't know...
[/quote]
This means you shouldn't get one. [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.gif[/img]
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Does the IPad 2 have proper support for multitasking, so I can keep something actually running in the back ground while I flip to another program to read while I wait for the first to finish?

If not, it is an overly expensive paperweight that likely doesn't even do a great job at that.
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[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1301918940' post='4794169']
Cons: it's far worse than a device you either already own or can obtain for a fraction of the price of an iPad for any other task.
[/quote]Quite a large fraction, like 80% here in the UK. Far worse is also a difficult position to support since it depends what you think is important. For portability, battery life and weight, it beats even netbooks. But since you are talking about "a device you already own" you probably mean a laptop, which totally sucks on [i]those[/i] metrics. Comparing a laptop with an iPad is like comparing a laptop with a desktop.
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or[quote name='d000hg' timestamp='1301929828' post='4794231']
[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1301918940' post='4794169']
Cons: it's far worse than a device you either already own or can obtain for a fraction of the price of an iPad for any other task.
[/quote]Quite a large fraction, like 80% here in the UK. Far worse is also a difficult position to support since it depends what you think is important. For portability, battery life and weight, it beats even netbooks. But since you are talking about "a device you already own" you probably mean a laptop, which totally sucks on [i]those[/i] metrics. Comparing a laptop with an iPad is like comparing a laptop with a desktop.
[/quote]

laptops are more powerful than I think you think they are now. Many laptops get better battery life than an ipad if used in a battery conducive way also (edit: this is a pretty recent development with new processors. 2 years ago this was certainly not the case). Comparing a laptop with an iPad these days is like comparing a desktop with an iPad more than a desktop with a laptop.
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[quote name='d000hg' timestamp='1301929828' post='4794231']
[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1301918940' post='4794169']
Cons: it's far worse than a device you either already own or can obtain for a fraction of the price of an iPad for any other task.
[/quote]Quite a large fraction, like 80% here in the UK. Far worse is also a difficult position to support since it depends what you think is important. For portability, battery life and weight, it beats even netbooks. But since you are talking about "a device you already own" you probably mean a laptop, which totally sucks on [i]those[/i] metrics. Comparing a laptop with an iPad is like comparing a laptop with a desktop.
[/quote]That's great, you can carry it around. However, most people likely already own an object that's great for carrying around, be it a cell phone, a teddy bear or a nicely shaped rock of just the right size. The question is, why would you [i]want[/i] to carry it around?

[quote]Does the IPad 2 have proper support for multitasking, so I can keep something actually running in the back ground while I flip to another program to read while I wait for the first to finish?[/quote]Nope.
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[quote name='Zeypher' timestamp='1301912137' post='4794136']
[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1301911981' post='4794133']
What exactly are you going to use it for ?
[/quote]

Good question! I honestly don't know... I like the look and features that it come with. But other than that, I hearing so much hype about it and I don't understand how or why... o_O
[/quote]

This is why I bought my Xoom from Costco. They have a 90 day return policy for any reason. I kept the Xoom for about three weeks, and after the first week it barely got any use. It's a fantastic piece of hardware and if I had a train or bus commute or if I traveled more, I'd get another in a second. As it is now, I'm always near a much more powerful device.

Tim.
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[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1301931047' post='4794240']
[quote name='d000hg' timestamp='1301929828' post='4794231']
[quote name='valderman' timestamp='1301918940' post='4794169']
Cons: it's far worse than a device you either already own or can obtain for a fraction of the price of an iPad for any other task.
[/quote]Quite a large fraction, like 80% here in the UK. Far worse is also a difficult position to support since it depends what you think is important. For portability, battery life and weight, it beats even netbooks. But since you are talking about "a device you already own" you probably mean a laptop, which totally sucks on [i]those[/i] metrics. Comparing a laptop with an iPad is like comparing a laptop with a desktop.
[/quote]That's great, you can carry it around. However, most people likely already own an object that's great for carrying around, be it a cell phone, a teddy bear or a nicely shaped rock of just the right size.[/quote]Now come on, even you know what functionality tablets provide? Maybe you just have a feud with Apple and argue for the sake of it like FF fanbois against any story with IE in the title... personally I don't really have a need for a tablet, but denying they meet [i]any [/i]use case because of my personal situation would be superbly and foolishly arrogant. If I went on a lot of public transport, it would be quite perfect for web/video/email.

I have not see any reviews for laptops which will give similar battery life to a tablet with similar use patterns. Closer with the newer CPUs but those are not the machines which are comparable on price. I have a pretty modern standard-level laptop and it won't let me use it all day without plugging in. For the cost of an entry-level (crap) laptop or a netbook I can get something which outperforms them both on [i]certain criteria[/i]. The key point is that different people have things they consider most important. Some think the only important thing is the raw CPU/RAM/GPU spec, and paying more to get something weighing under 12lb is 'form over function'. Others need something they can hold in one hand to take notes in the field, raw power is inconsequential.


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I see tons of iPads around where I go. I personally think it's more of a status statement, or fashion accessory to most of them. [i]"Look! I got an iPad and you don't!" "iPads are cool, so since I have one, I'm cool also!"[/i]
Most of the people seem to have gotten along fine without it, and everything I see them doing with it they were also doing previously, just using other (less expensive) devices or objects.

[b]Pros:[/b] You get to look cool, cutting edge, and smart.
[b]Cons:[/b] You are out $500, and an additional $500 or more over the course of the year.

Losing money is definiately not cool, and losing money just to look cool is definitely not smart, and you're not cutting edge at all, since the edge of my 4 year old desktop can cut your unneeded iPad in two.

Quick money lesson here: Don't look at an object and ask yourself, "Do I need that?", because you'll convince yourself that you do.
Instead, a year from now, as your going about your daily life, when you encounter a problem that the iPad would solve, ask yourself whether it's worth the investment.

Remember, it doesn't cost you $500. It costs a *minimum* of $500 for the *cheapest version*, which is WiFi only.
[list][*]Want more than 16gb storage? Extra $100 to $200.[*]Want the 3G mobile one? Additional $130, plus the extra data costs on your phone bill ($480 over one year)[*]Ofcourse, now that you have one... you need apps for it right? Ofcourse you do! You want a popular device to look cool, so you need the popular apps that everyone's talking about. Another $200 in spontaneous buys over 1 year.[/list]
The sticker price is not the real cost of ownership. You are throwing away $1200 or more on something you absolutely 100% [b][i]DO NOT NEED[/i][/b].

Is the iPad useful? Definitely. Do you [b]need [/b]it? Absolutely not. So should you get one? No.

Instead of buying something that'll cost you $1200 over the next year, why don't you invest the money, to [i]make you[/i] $1200 over the next year. Do you need more money? Yes. Having money is cool. Making/saving money? Now [i]that's[/i] cutting edge and smart.

[url="http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/8335/calvinfooled.jpg"][size="4"][color="#0000FF"]Or, to phrase it another way...[/color][/size][/url]
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[quote name='Zeypher' timestamp='1301912137' post='4794136']
[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1301911981' post='4794133']
What exactly are you going to use it for ?
[/quote]

Good question! I honestly don't know... I like the look and features that it come with. But other than that, I hearing so much hype about it and I don't understand how or why... o_O
[/quote]

That is really scary.

Unfortunately it tends to work.

"Hey Doctor! I just saw an ad for (some drug). I don't know what it is or what it does, but I really want it!"
"Mom, I want you to buy this because I saw it on TV!"
"Ohhhhh, something shiny! Must buy it on credit."


Which leads directly to a related thread going on in the Lounge regarding the ethics of extreme consumer debt.
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TBH, the mine reason for the iPad is the app store. If you see apps/programs/games/software that you like and want to use, you buy the device that it is targeted at. I used to have a a laptop and iPad and eventually got rid of the laptop to buy a more powerful desktop (a 27 inch iMac :P) because the iPad handled 90% of what use my laptop for. It also doesn't become another PC I have to maintain.

It is also a lot easier to handle in a social setting. For example, if I see a webpage I like, passing the device to a friend is much easier with an iPad then a laptop.
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[quote name='yaustar' timestamp='1302005909' post='4794601']
It is also a lot easier to handle in a social setting. For example, if I see a webpage I like, passing the device to a friend is much easier with an iPad then a laptop.
[/quote]

I've never had an issue handing around my EeePC. And I can play flash games on it.
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[quote name='Luckless' timestamp='1302011188' post='4794623']
I've never had an issue handing around my EeePC. And I can play flash games on it.
[/quote]
Which one do you have? I've been drooling over the EP121, but haven't bought one yet.
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[quote name='Luckless' timestamp='1302011188' post='4794623']I've never had an issue handing around my EeePC. [/quote]
Its more of the case that the iPad gets handled more like a magazine or book. Let's say I want to hand to some to behind me, I pass it over my head without putting it on standby or whatever, it just gets passed over. With a laptop (granted, netbooks are a bit easier here), it is more clumbersome as you either have to maneuver it with the screen open or have it in a closed state which usually puts it in standby.
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[quote name='yaustar' timestamp='1302013574' post='4794637']
[quote name='Luckless' timestamp='1302011188' post='4794623']I've never had an issue handing around my EeePC. [/quote]
Its more of the case that the iPad gets handled more like a magazine or book. Let's say I want to hand to some to behind me, I pass it over my head without putting it on standby or whatever, it just gets passed over. With a laptop (granted, netbooks are a bit easier here), it is more clumbersome as you either have to maneuver it with the screen open or have it in a closed state which usually puts it in standby.
[/quote]

not all the eee pcs are laptop or netbooks. Here is the ep121:
[img]http://milandesignweek2011.asus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/PR-ASUS-Eee-Slate-EP121-1.jpg[/img]
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[quote name='yaustar' timestamp='1302013574' post='4794637']
[quote name='Luckless' timestamp='1302011188' post='4794623']I've never had an issue handing around my EeePC. [/quote]
Its more of the case that the iPad gets handled more like a magazine or book. Let's say I want to hand to some to behind me, I pass it over my head without putting it on standby or whatever, it just gets passed over. With a laptop (granted, netbooks are a bit easier here), it is more clumbersome as you either have to maneuver it with the screen open or have it in a closed state which usually puts it in standby.
[/quote]

Even with my ancient EeePC 900, I've never noticed it was "cumbersome" to pass around, opened or closed. It is super light, easily held by an edge in one hand without feeling like you are going to drop it. The lack of the super glossy surfaces also seems to remove some of the feeling of "Oh crap, this is expensive and I'm going to break it" that I've found in people (including myself) when handling someone else's IPad.
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[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1301946287' post='4794338']
I see tons of iPads around where I go. I personally think it's more of a status statement, or fashion accessory to most of them. [i]"Look! I got an iPad and you don't!" "iPads are cool, so since I have one, I'm cool also!"[/i][/quote]This is true. That doesn't mean to the discerning customer it isn't useful though. Posers also get fancy laptops.

[quote]Most of the people seem to have gotten along fine without it, and everything I see them doing with it they were also doing previously, just using other (less expensive) devices or objects.[/quote]Say the same for smartphones. Or in fact, cell-phones ten years ago, we all managed just fine without it. Or broadband and the expectation of always-on internet.

[b][quote][/b] you're not cutting edge at all, since the edge of my 4 year old desktop can cut your unneeded iPad in two.[/quote]Are you really that dumb? Cutting edge doesn't mean faster than your PC. The Nokia 3210 was cutting edge once. Smartphones are not comparable power to a PC either. When your desktop PC can weigh the same as a paperback book, that argument makes sense.

[quote]Quick money lesson here: Don't look at an object and ask yourself, "Do I need that?", because you'll convince yourself that you do.
Instead, a year from now, as your going about your daily life, when you encounter a problem that the iPad would solve, ask yourself whether it's worth the investment.

Remember, it doesn't cost you $500. It costs a *minimum* of $500 for the *cheapest version*, which is WiFi only.
[list][*]Want more than 16gb storage? Extra $100 to $200.[*]Want the 3G mobile one? Additional $130, plus the extra data costs on your phone bill ($480 over one year)[*]Ofcourse, now that you have one... you need apps for it right? Ofcourse you do! You want a popular device to look cool, so you need the popular apps that everyone's talking about. Another $200 in spontaneous buys over 1 year.[/list]
The sticker price is not the real cost of ownership. You are throwing away $1200 or more on something you absolutely 100% [b][i]DO NOT NEED[/i][/b].

Is the iPad useful? Definitely. Do you [b]need [/b]it? Absolutely not. So should you get one? No.[/quote]When did anyone say an iPad was anything except a luxury item? Is your logic nobody should buy things they don't [i]need[/i]? I assume you don't have a flat-screen or a games console?

[quote]Instead of buying something that'll cost you $1200 over the next year, why don't you invest the money, to [i]make you[/i] $1200 over the next year. Do you need more money? Yes. Having money is cool. Making/saving money? Now [i]that's[/i] cutting edge and smart.[/quote]Indeed, then you can die rich.

Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.
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My wife and I are really loving ours. I mainly bought it to use for iOS app development, but it's gotten a ton of use beyond that. Reading books, newspapers, magazines. Surfing web. Sharing pictures when we go to my parents' house. Playing games from the app store (there are some great ones, and many are hilariously cheap compared to other platforms, even for exactly the same game). Super portable Netflix-watching. GPS navigation. A bit of touch-screen painting. It just feels much, much more portable than my laptop, so I'll generally pick up the iPad for many tasks I used to need my bulkier laptop for. Touch-input on a large screen also makes it feel very different from using a laptop, and I find that I like it better for some things (except lots of typing, obviously). The battery also definitely lasts longer than my laptop's does. It's completely silent and never even gets warm after extended use. So I'm really liking it for a variety of uses.

Uninterested in fashion statements though. Can't comment on that.
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iPads look pretty, but do you really want to support a closed computing platform?

[quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.[/size][/color][/quote]
Except that you can't [i]develop [/i]on it. [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img]

Apple makes hardware for a profit (3x typical price markup).
Developers make software for a profit.
Both depend on each other, so I find it odd that software companies would go along with giving up so much power to the hardware companies.
Control over where and how to distribute/sell software, boundaries of acceptable software content, 'veto' power, 30% of revenue...
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[quote name='Gamer Gamester' timestamp='1302071167' post='4794929']
iPads look pretty, but do you really want to support a closed computing platform?[/quote]Maybe it might surprise you to know, most people don't care about this stuff. And anyway Android is more than a little closed.

[quote][quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Not to mention, an iPad is an excellent purchase as a developer, to make money by creating applications independently or by selling your time to another company.[/size][/color][/quote]
Except that you can't [i]develop [/i]on it. [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img]

Apple makes hardware for a profit (3x typical price markup).
Developers make software for a profit.
Both depend on each other, so I find it odd that software companies would go along with giving up so much power to the hardware companies.
Control over where and how to distribute/sell software, boundaries of acceptable software content, 'veto' power, 30% of revenue...
[/quote]The companies want to make money. iPhone/Pad lets them do this. Sure they don't [i]like[/i] giving up control in many cases, but they'd rather have 70% of a lot than a 100% of not much. Just like console games... those are [i]very[/i] tightly controlled, much more than iOS apps.

As a freelance developer knowing how to develop on iOS can be a great way to make decent money because it's still a relatively rare skillset. So as well as making your own apps, you can get someone to pay you $X/hour to make their apps.
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[quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Maybe it might surprise you to know, most people don't care about this stuff.[/size][/color][/quote]
I'm can't say I'm surprised. I think most people [i]would[/i] care if they understood the difference.

[quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]And anyway Android is more than a little closed.[/size][/color][/quote]
I completely agree. Not satisfied with mobile OSes at the moment.

[quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]The companies want to make money. iPhone/Pad lets them do this.[/size][/color][/quote]
I think it depends -- some apps sell really well but others can't break even. If you have no good plans/ideas for attracting customers, then yes, the app store will make you more money than otherwise. However, your app will be only available through the same avenue as all other apps.... it can be hard to stand out. And in general app store customers seem to expect apps to have a very low price, resulting in:
[quote][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]there are some great ones, and many are hilariously cheap compared to other platforms, even for exactly the same game[/size][/color][/quote]

I would argue that in many cases a business can creatively use their control of how and where their software is available to actually attract more customer attention (while charging a fairer price). And you can maintain a customer base as you have the actual customer data. This is a whole side of business on top of product development -- if you're only setup for development, it can make sense to outsource marketing/distribution to someone like Apple, but realize that you're basically throwing your app onto the heap. You can still market your app store app outside of Apple, of course, but if that's successful then you don't really need Apple to get your market in the first place. It might take longer, but I think businesses are better off in the long term if they build up their own market rather than relying on Apple's (which will never truly be their own -- Apple has all the control there).

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"][quote]As a freelance developer knowing how to develop on iOS can be a great way to make decent money because it's still a relatively rare skillset.[/quote][/size][/color]
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]I agree -- I've done my fair share of freelance iOS development. My ability to negotiate much higher rates than offered indicates that I must have relatively rare skills. [/size][/color][img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img] Despite the pay, I'm of the opinion that iOS development is a unnecessary pain -- it feels like the state of the development art has gone back to the early 90s on that platform. And for my own software business I refuse to support Apple's business model. I think the software industry is selling themselves out for (often uncertain) short-term profits on this one -- the software industry should not let the hardware industry take control of its market.
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