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      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
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Hodgman

Thumbs up, bro!

92 posts in this topic

Though I doubt you'd share, I'd be super curious to know what traffic has been like since the layout change. It seems to me like the forums have become a fairly useless wasteland. That and the original articles are the only reason I ever came to this site (for what, maybe 6 years now...). Hacker News, Reddit, Kotaku, gamasutra and my RSS feed are WAY better sources of industry news or "one stop shopping" than gamedev ever was or currently is in. But you guys got probably 80% of my day's worth of web traffic. Now you get maybe 5%

IMO, if you're focusing on news I think you've totally misunderstood what makes this site worthwhile.

I think that without the forums, this site dies. Outside of my workplace, there has never been another resource that I could find that has been filled with such experts in this field as gamedev has been. It will suck if that continues to fade away.

Totally unrelated: it's been strange to me how much the loss of my old user score from the old rating system has disincentivized me from coming back. I'd guess I'd always used that as some kind of self-worth to the community... w/e

Please fix the forums... (recent threads up above the fold on the homepage so I can just hit F5 while I'm at work without necessarily being logged in)

In the new botique web era, niche wins, same-same catchall loses.

-me
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[quote name='Palidine' timestamp='1302929273' post='4799030']
Totally unrelated: it's been strange to me how much the loss of my old user score from the old rating system has disincentivized me from coming back. I'd guess I'd always used that as some kind of self-worth to the community... w/e[/quote]You do have a "reputation" now, under your username and display picture on the left. Not quite the same, but I believe the old ratings were used to set the initial reputation values. You get (or lose) reputation based on feedback given for individual posts.
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Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..
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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1302966331' post='4799141']
Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..
[/quote]

Yeah it's bs. Certain mods got close to 1000 rep when the new system was implemented. Yet, regular members either got 0 - 60 but had a much higher rating in the old system.

It's a conspiracy! The illuminati of GDnet are tryin to keep us down.
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In fact on the rep system; it's now completely usless.

The main complaint about the rating system (beyond its existance) was that it was just a number with no idea as to what posts etc caused the rating change.

New site launches and huzzah! per post ratings, now we can feedback per-post which not only serves to let the poster know something is wrong with it but also indicate to other users that the post probably isn't very good.

At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed; so now we are back to basically the old system, but with a bunch of people with a large amount of rep and some with smaller for no other reason than their data happened to come across better from the old site and once again the ability to see what posts caused the problem and what post aren't worth paying attention to is gone.

It should be noted that, like other changes, this was dropped on the site without the mosd even having a small amount of heads up (I only found out when I came to rate up a post, the page refreshed and the rating buttons were gone but the post still had 0 (zero) next to it.. in fact, why even have that number there now?).

You know what... some how, in some way, you've managed to make the rating system WORSE on the site... and for that achievement I salute you, gg...
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[quote name='OneThreeThreeSeven' timestamp='1302969335' post='4799156']
[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1302966331' post='4799141']
Ah, rep... aka 'another feature which got broken'... note how yours is 946 and mine is in the mid-60s, not bad considering I had close to 1970 on the old system... I complained about this when the site rolled out (not so much because I was hit but because it was massively inconsistant) and all it got was a vague reply and that was all..
[/quote]

Yeah it's bs. Certain mods got close to 1000 rep when the new system was implemented. Yet, regular members either got 0 - 60 but had a much higher rating in the old system.

It's a conspiracy! The illuminati of GDnet are tryin to keep us down.
[/quote]
*Points at my rating* I'm not GDNet+, or staff, or a moderator. My rating started off higher. Why? The old rating *started* at 1000, and let you go up or down from there. The new rating system *starts* at 0, and goes up or down from there. So to transfer, they just took your current rating and subtracted 1000. For everyone, including staff and mods.

My old rating in the mid 1600s became the same thing minus 1000. So my rating on the new site started at somewhere in the 600s. The old staff who were 2000 or so, became 1000 or so. My guess, but I'm not 100% sure, is that the people less than 1000 were brought to 0, instead of negative, giving them a "fresh start". Some users have since then, gone into negative on their own. Also, a few users the staff mentioned accidentally got skipped over when they made the transfer and got reset to 0, they weren't sure how. You could PM a mod to fix it, if you believe yours is actually incorrect.
[i][b]
[/b][/i]
[i][b](YourOldScore - 1000) = yourNewScore[/b][/i]
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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1302972984' post='4799169']
At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed;[/quote]
It wasn't removed - just ruined.
They made it so the rep of a post only shows positive or negative if it's at or above 3.

Like this:
[code]if(postRating < -2)
ShowRating(postRating+2)
else if(postRating > 2)
ShowRating(postRating-2)
else
ShowRating(0)
[/code]

Which results in:
[list][*][b]PostRating . . ShowsValue[/b][*]-5 ................... -3[*]-4 ................... -2[*]-3 ................... -1[*]-2 .................... 0[*]-1 .................... 0[*]0 ..................... 0[*]+1 ................... 0[*]+2 ................... 0[*]+3 .................. +1[*]+4 .................. +2[*]+5 .................. +3[/list]

Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!
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[quote name='SiCrane' timestamp='1302922578' post='4799012']
[quote name='Michael Tanczos' timestamp='1302921828' post='4799007']
You can also use "My Content" in your profile dropdown when you log in to see all the threads you have participated in.
[/quote]
Read the bug tracker lately? As in, ever? That feature is bugged and has been since at least January 12th. See above post.
[/quote]More like read this THREAD lately. I already pointed out the bugs with it right here.
The answers in this thread are like being told to hop on one foot, after buying a pair of shoes and only getting one in the box. [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif[/img]

[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2][quote name='phantom' timestamp='1302972984' post='4799169']
At "some point" the ability to see how a post was rated was removed; so now we are back to basically the old system, but with a bunch of people with a large amount of rep and some with smaller for no other reason than their data happened to come across better from the old site and once again the ability to see what posts caused the problem and what post aren't worth paying attention to is gone.
[/quote]Yep. Makes it worthless to rate down some bad programming advice in a thread so the OP can see not to follow it.

[/size][/font]
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[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1302977307' post='4799195']
Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!
[/quote]

Maybe, but the problem with that is it relies on X number of people with enough knowedge to see a bad post and down rate it before it becomes visable which adds to the chance of someone who DOESNT know better following the advise.

Clamping negative rep, sure I can see that as the number follows you around, but the ability to mark a post as 'bad' in a technical form is, imo, very important...
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[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1302981647' post='4799225']
[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1302977307' post='4799195']
Which, I completely agree, ruins the value of the whole thing.
I do think that they should hide the first -1 rating (makes the site seem friendlier), but two -2 ratings should then show up as -2, not -1.
And positive +1,+2, etc... there's no reason whatsoever to hide that!
[/quote]

Maybe, but the problem with that is it relies on X number of people with enough knowedge to see a bad post and down rate it before it becomes visable which adds to the chance of someone who DOESNT know better following the advise.

Clamping negative rep, sure I can see that as the number follows you around, but the ability to mark a post as 'bad' in a technical form is, imo, very important...
[/quote]

I thought this per post rating system was meant to cut down on '+1' 'posts, I did not know about this change was it mentioned to the community? I now know the reason for why I had to effectively make a [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/598777-c-detecting-unused-functions-and-headers/page__view__findpost__p__4792976"]'+1'[/url] post after the vote was a complete and utter waste of time.
Is 'Posts' in profiles broken as well? I had to go searching for the thread instead.

Maybe this whole charade will be profitable for the staff as they can now release a book of 'How not to do a website _upgrade_'
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[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1302977307' post='4799195']
It wasn't removed - just ruined.
They made it so the rep of a post only shows positive or negative if it's at or above 3.
[/quote]
It doesn't work like that. I'm currently looking at post in another thread that is at +7 and still shows up as 0.
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If you ask me, the new site seemed to work better the first day than now.

Now:

- Find My Content doesn't work.
- Per post reputation doesn't show up (and allows down rating*).
- Fron't page is uglier.

* Downratings allows haters to seek for all your post and rate them down in retaliation for something you said they didn't like. You'll never know because YOU CAN'T SEE THE RATINGS! This is unbalanced in respect to up-ratings because no sane person would go and rate all your post up for something you said they liked.
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[quote name='owl' timestamp='1302999688' post='4799322']
If you ask me, the new site seemed to work better the first day than now.

Now:

- Find My Content doesn't work.
- Per post reputation doesn't show up (and allows down rating*).
- Fron't page is uglier.

* Downratings allows haters to seek for all your post and rate them down in retaliation for something you said they didn't like. You'll never know because YOU CAN'T SEE THE RATINGS! This is unbalanced in respect to up-ratings because no sane person would go and rate all your post up for something you said they liked.
[/quote]

The reputation count has been restored.. tracked it down to a hook we had installed.
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[quote name='SiCrane' timestamp='1302922392' post='4799011']
Still useless. Actually, this is worse than useless. Even the old system of posting on GDNet: CSI and being ignored is better than an automated message from a system that looks like issues are never updated and are never, ever closed. Even if you aren't using it like a bug tracker, the tracker still looks like a bug tracker and not using it sends the message that you aren't doing anything with bugs.
[/quote]

Since the bug tracker is not being actively used to reply to issues, permissions have been restricted to staff and moderators. The CSI forum has been reopened. The feedback tab is still the mechanism people can continue to submit reports through. Individual support requests can be done through the Client Area.

- Michael Tanczos
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[quote name='SiCrane' timestamp='1302999382' post='4799320']
[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1302977307' post='4799195']
It wasn't removed - just ruined.
They made it so the rep of a post only shows positive or negative if it's at or above 3.
[/quote]
It doesn't work like that. I'm currently looking at post in another thread that is at +7 and still shows up as 0.
[/quote]
Ah, never mind then. My information was from something a staff said in the issue tracker about how he *thought* it worked; however, I haven't been able to get back in the issue tracker to find out the exact post (as Michael said above, permissions restricted).
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[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1303090472' post='4799693']
[quote name='Michael Tanczos' timestamp='1303011096' post='4799358']
Find my content is fixed[/quote]:):D
[/quote]

This is how it always is.

Userbase: We've found this bug, and it's a real easy fix. You're method seems correct, but it seems like only 1 line of code would fix it.

Dev: It's not that easy! It's never that easy! blah blah blah it'll be awhile. I'll evaluate it for the next release cycle.

Userbase: But..

Dev: Not buts.. stupid users. I SAID I'LL EVALUATE THAT FIX FOR THE NEXT RELEASE CYCLE. UNTIL THEN LUMP IT. IF YOUR DATA IS CORRUPTING ON SAVE, JUST DON'T SAVE YOUR DATA! HEY- WE'LL MARK THIS ISSUE AS CLOSED, SINCE NOT SAVING YOUR DATA IS A VALID WORKAROUND!

Userbase: Let's burn this place to the ground!

Dev: *changes one line of code, hits F5, and posts fixed binary*

If only the GIMP userbase would do the same. :P
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I don't like the new news aggregate thing that's so flavor of the month right now, but I don't get the hate on the like buttons. It's not like their being there harms anything very much and it is pretty easily ignored.

On turning the site into a game industry aggregator though, please don't go down that road. There are plenty of other sites that do it better, and all it does is make the original content harder to find. Maybe allow people to do it for hand picked articles of high quality, but just grabbing everything the internet has to provide will make it crappy.

Maybe you should work on developing ways to make it easier to generate content rather than working on developing ways to grab other people's content? That solves the low quantity of new content and would be far more interesting imo.

edit: or maybe find a way to keep aggregated news and original content separate. It might be handy to have a small stream on the side of aggregate news and give original content more screen real estate for longer periods of time.
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[quote name='Daaark' timestamp='1303092164' post='4799702']
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1303090472' post='4799693']
[quote name='Michael Tanczos' timestamp='1303011096' post='4799358']
Find my content is fixed[/quote]:):D
[/quote]

This is how it always is.

Userbase: We've found this bug, and it's a real easy fix. You're method seems correct, but it seems like only 1 line of code would fix it.

Dev: It's not that easy! It's never that easy! blah blah blah it'll be awhile. I'll evaluate it for the next release cycle.

Userbase: But..

Dev: Not buts.. stupid users. I SAID I'LL EVALUATE THAT FIX FOR THE NEXT RELEASE CYCLE. UNTIL THEN LUMP IT. IF YOUR DATA IS CORRUPTING ON SAVE, JUST DON'T SAVE YOUR DATA! HEY- WE'LL MARK THIS ISSUE AS CLOSED, SINCE NOT SAVING YOUR DATA IS A VALID WORKAROUND!

Userbase: Let's burn this place to the ground!

Dev: *changes one line of code, hits F5, and posts fixed binary*

If only the GIMP userbase would do the same. :P
[/quote]


Its usually never a matter of whether something is easy to fix or not - it's just when you have a large quantity of stuff you have old issues vs new issues, and the triage process is how you sift through them all to prioritize things. The "Find My Content" issue, for example, is part of a bigger problem with the way the IPS search works - because it was related to the same steps it took to fix "Active Content" I was able to do that fix relatively quickly. But it's not that way with all bugs.. originally this bug took a lot of looking through the IPS source to isolate and ultimately it ended up being a problem with the Sphinx config their software generates. They claim all this stuff related to search will be fixed in the upcoming version - but then their release date for it is listed as "2011". We can't wait that long for a window of time that is uncertain.

Anyway, so this bug was overlooked in the original fix in our current top priority list - we do update our priority list of bugs, but we have to schedule them to be fixed as well and some things we can't get to for a while.
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Just a side thing, the max number of + votes per day thing is really annoyingly low. I think I made 2 upvotes last night and this morning I have done 0 and I am at my max upvotes for the day. Makes the feature feel very useless.

edit:
It should also be noted that - votes seem to be limitless leaving a net negative flow of reputation through the system.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1303138887' post='4799914']
Just a side thing, the max number of + votes per day thing is really annoyingly low. I think I made 2 upvotes last night and this morning I have done 0 and I am at my max upvotes for the day. Makes the feature feel very useless.

edit:
It should also be noted that - votes seem to be limitless leaving a net negative flow of reputation through the system.
[/quote]

I modified the voting limit from 5 to 50. Let me know if this limit becomes an issue. =)
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For anyone still watching this thread - we've made quite a few changes to the news the last few days based on your feedback. While we have a few more tricks up our sleeve, let us know if you have any further ideas how we can make the news a better source of information for you.
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[quote]
For anyone still watching this thread - we've made quite a few changes to the news the last few days based on your feedback.[/quote]
Good to know there has been some progress on some of these issues.

[quote]
While we have a few more tricks up our sleeve, let us know if you have any further ideas how we can make the news a better source of information for you.[/quote]
Here, or using the "feedback" button?
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