Hey all, I've been contacted through LinkedIn about a potential job and I wanted to ask some advice! It's not a game development job but this is the only programming related forum I really use and I figured I'd be able to get some advice here regardless
The information I have so far is that a factory has machinery running on Visual Basic 6 (which I have listed on my LinkedIn profile and is the reason for them contacting me) and the original developers are banned from the site due to "business politics". They're looking for someone to come in and get their head around the old VB code with a view to improve and optimise it and put in some modifications on a go forward basis.
They've asked if I'm free to pop to the factory later this week and the only mention of pay was "we'll take it from there with regard to rates etc". Looking at a 'salary watch' website the average salary for a VB developer in the UK is ~£27k and for a consultant it is ~£32k. I'm about to graduate from university and I'm aiming for a ~£25-27k salary so I'd probably ask for £27k if the position is permanent but if it's a temporary position I'm unsure how to go about negotiating pay. The £27k works out somewhere around £100 per day (based on 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year) but this seems really low for a temporary work contract in software development. Also it seems like a more specialised role than your bog standard Java developer role where everybody learns Java at university, or web development which everybody and his mum seems to do these days! Do I push for more if the position is temporary? How much more?
Any help or advice would be hugely appreciated!
Progress is born from the opportunity to make mistakes.
Show up wearing slightly better clothing than everyone else, have good posture, speak clearly and carefully, and ask for about double that as your "standard rate." Seriously. My last contract was significantly more than double that hourly rate, which I got by confidently asking for it. YMMV :-)
Show up wearing slightly better clothing than everyone else, have good posture, speak clearly and carefully, and ask for about double that as your "standard rate." Seriously. My last contract was significantly more than double that hourly rate, which I got by confidently asking for it. YMMV :-)
Plus, it's legacy VB6. They damn well better pay you a nice salary for having to deal with that crap.
EDIT: Went back to edit, and the editor turned everything into one solid block. My advice was not worth the editing, as it wasn't great.
Full disclosure: I do not do anything with programming for a living, but...
Remember that they are willing to hire someone entry level if they are pulling someone straight from university, and that tends to mean cheap. Even if VB6 is a big hassle to work with, and relatively uncommon, they will likely have a decent pool of potential hires to draw from, many of whom will have more experience. Definitely present yourself well, and try to evaluate what the specific work they want you to do is actually worth. When you offer your bid, be ready to move down if they really want to negotiate because your perceived lower cost is likely a major edge for you.
As long as you are willing to walk away if they offer you less than the job is worth, I would think that you can arrive at a number that will work for you.
Jobs aren't common right now, don't get greedy particulally if your just finishing university. Excellent chance for you to get your foot in the door, be careful not to waste it. The fact that they activly approached you is good.
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Jobs aren't common right now, don't get greedy particulally if your just finishing university. Excellent chance for you to get your foot in the door, be careful not to waste it. The fact that they activly approached you is good.
I'd probably go along with this. It's much easier to negotiate salary when you have alternatives. With the way the economy is now, and the fact that you don't have a job, the company is in the driver's seat honestly when it comes to salary negotiation, and asking for too much won't work in your advantage. And they know that. At the very best, I would go up 5%, but you'll need to verify why. Maybe it's too expensive around there, or you have other bills you need to pay, etc. Just don't push for too much.
*EDIT*
As another person stated, remember, you're entry level. So you'll need to look at average entry level salaries. And even still, I find many of those sites suspect at best. For some reason, they always seem to give siginificantly higher salaries.
Remember that at any interview you're also interviewing the company too.
While in this economy you shouldn't turn down any reasonable offer, also trust your gut and if you see tons of red flags then sometimes it isn't worth it to go into a really bad situation.
The £27k works out somewhere around £100 per day (based on 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year) but this seems really low for a temporary work contract in software development.[/quote]
You are in for a rude awakening.
The information I have so far is that a factory has machinery running on Visual Basic 6 (which I have listed on my LinkedIn profile and is the reason for them contacting me) and the original developers are banned from the site due to "business politics". They're looking for someone to come in and get their head around the old VB code with a view to improve and optimise it and put in some modifications on a go forward basis.[/quote]
And hero comes to save the day....
Think about this for a second. They have industrial machinery (things that can reduce volume of a person by a factor of 10) - and rather than hiring people from the industry, they choose random undergrad without a finished degree from Teh Internetz?
Then again - what is your industrial automation experience? Maybe that is indeed crucial to their line of business? Maybe you worked on same machinery. Siemens?
Also it seems like a more specialised role than your bog standard Java developer role where everybody learns Java at university[/quote]
Java developers are typically certified. Not in Java - in actual industry, such as J2EE, Oracle, Cisco, ...
What industrial automation certifications do you have?
I work for a company that specialises in Industrial Automation, and provides software solutions for firms just like the one you mention. We would be looking to charge around £50/hr for a job of this type, and this is the kind of figure a company like this should be expecting to pay. However, instead of hiring experienced programmers they seem to be looking at college grads in the hope of getting it done on the cheap.
As you state, the average wage for a programmer is probably around £27k a year, however bear in mind this is probably for experienced programmers, as an entry level programmer, you can expect to earn a lot less than this - probably around £20k a year until you prove yourself.
Now, depending on whether they want you as a salaried employee or a contractor, is going to change things a fair bit. Contractors can command a much higher wage, as their employment is not guaranteed, and they do not recieve the benefits of a staffie.
So there are two figures that you need to bear in mind - a fair price that this company should be paying for work of this type - £50/hr, and a fair price for your skills based on experience - £20k a year based on staff, maybe 30k for contract. I'm guessing if they are even asking you, then they arent willing to pay the £50/hr...
One piece of advice though - if they do take you on as a contractor, make sure you have a decent contract in place and some pretty good insurance cover... one wrong move will bring the whole factory to a standstil.. and as soon as you do they will be looking straight at you and will be expecting compensation. Make sure your contract states you are not liable, and have plenty of cover incase they decide to sue anyway.
