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Preventing Newbie Killing

31 posts in this topic

[font=tahoma]Despite the fact I've made it so you get zero points on your killscore for killing newbies in my crime browser game (http://balamoosh.com), some continue to kill em for no reason.

Any ideas to battle this?[/font]
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[quote name='Balamoosh' timestamp='1306521103' post='4816512']
[font="tahoma"]Despite the fact I've made it so you get zero points on your killscore for killing newbies in my crime browser game ([url="http://balamoosh.com"]http://balamoosh.com[/url]), some continue to kill em for no reason.

Any ideas to battle this?[/font]
[/quote]

As long as players have powers over others, they will abuse it.
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Give newbies "innocent bystander" status, and punish killing innocent bystanders.
Post snipers on rooftops all around the city, and have them target killers of newbies.
Build trapdoors on all the sidewalks and floors (they don't exist until needed, and come into existence as needed), and let all newbie-killers have a visit with Satan.
Revoke newbie-killers' licenses, take their badges, give'em negative points, make'em spend a night in jail.
Put impenetrable forcefields around newbies until they can defend themselves.
A newbie-killer is sent back to newbie status whenever he kills a newbie.
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^ These are good points.

[quote name='Butabee' timestamp='1306522206' post='4816519']As long as players have powers over others, they will abuse it.[/quote]

I would say, as long as it's [b]fun[/b] to do, they will abuse it. Players don't necessarily care about points, it's more about entertainment. So I think the key here is to remove the fun component of killing n00bs. Either make new players immune, or punish the player who kills them.

Another solution is making getting killed part of the fun, and inform n00bs that it's ok to die. Perhaps reward them with a few experience points until they reach a threshold.
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[quote name='Tom Sloper' timestamp='1306522371' post='4816521']
A newbie-killer is sent back to newbie status whenever he kills a newbie.
[/quote]That's too harsh. "Killer" play style is one of the basic gamers personality types (Bartle Test) [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test"]http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bartle_Test[/url] and [url="http://www.gamerdna.com/quizzes/bartle-test-of-gamer-psychology"]http://www.gamerdna....amer-psychology[/url] , we might not like it, but the fact is it is a valid playstyle, not a degeneration.

First you should define your game style. To what personality types it will cater? What type is the most important to you? Do you want to eradicate "K" type players?
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[quote name='Acharis' timestamp='1306577260' post='4816737']That's too harsh.[/quote]
I didn't say they were all good ideas. Just throwing out sparks, since the OP needed some.
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[quote name='Balamoosh' timestamp='1306521103' post='4816512']
[font="tahoma"]Despite the fact I've made it so you get zero points on your killscore for killing newbies in my crime browser game ([url="http://balamoosh.com"]http://balamoosh.com[/url]), some continue to kill em for no reason.

Any ideas to battle this?[/font]
[/quote]
Killing the weak is the way of nature, and generally produces a victorious outcome.The only motivation that immediately comes to mind for engaging a harder opponant is the possibility of a greater payoff. Because temptation is also entertaining.
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[quote name='Balamoosh' timestamp='1306521103' post='4816512']
[font="tahoma"]Despite the fact I've made it so you get zero points on your killscore for killing newbies in my crime browser game ([url="http://balamoosh.com"]http://balamoosh.com[/url]), some continue to kill em for no reason.

Any ideas to battle this?[/font]
[/quote]
Some people grief just to grief. There are groups out there that exist solely to screw with other people. I first encountered such a group in Eve Online. They'll pop you in full sec (1.0 space where all the "space cops" are) knowing full well they'll be blown up as well just to mess up some random dude's day.
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I'd like to see MMO's with a "reputation" stat alongside the regular stuff like XP etc.. You get rep for completing quests and being a good guy, but lose it for killing newbs, killing NPC's, quitting groups etc. The rep stat could be taken further and influence other factors in the game, like maybe you can only get certain quests if your Rep is high enough (or you can get bad-guy quests, like go assasinate an NPC, only if your Rep is low).

Of course, there will always be players who aim to get as much negative Rep as possable!!
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[quote name='Balamoosh' timestamp='1306521103' post='4816512']
[font="tahoma"]some continue to kill em for no reason.

[/font][/quote]


[quote name='Butabee' timestamp='1306522206' post='4816519']
As long as players have powers over others, they will abuse it.
[/quote]


[quote name='Tachikoma' timestamp='1306553690' post='4816658']
So I think the key here is to remove the fun component of killing n00bs....

...inform n00bs that it's ok to die
[/quote]


[quote name='AngleWyrm' timestamp='1307466372' post='4820583']
Killing the weak is the way of nature, and generally produces a victorious outcome.The only motivation that immediately comes to mind for engaging a harder opponant is the possibility of a greater payoff. Because temptation is also entertaining.
[/quote]


[quote name='landlocked' timestamp='1307472298' post='4820624']
There are groups out there that exist solely to screw with other people. I first encountered such a group in Eve Online.
[/quote]

All of these quotes made me laugh...
Just the way you all put it is priceless, like it's some kind of philosophy or way of life or something.

-------

Honestly, I think "don't let the high-level players kill n00bycakies" (had to incorporate my very own way of saying "noob") and giving the n00bycakies bonus experience when getting slaughtered by high level players is the best way to go.
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My preferred method is to allow two tracks within the game:

1) protected PvE environment where you can farm along all day in peace and eventually make your goal.

2) high-risk / high-reward PvP environment where you can farm much faster but there's always the threat of getting ganked by a high-level. You can dissuade the high-levels from doing so via various methods but it should always be possible in the PvP zone.
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[quote name='GHMP' timestamp='1307521746' post='4820837']
All of these quotes made me laugh...
Just the way you all put it is priceless, like it's some kind of philosophy or way of life or something.
[/quote]
Um because it is. Griefers are a separate class of player with which developers need to contend. The oldest game I know of that this was a huge problem was Diablo 2. The online game play there was filled with people who messed with other people just for a few laughs.
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In my point of view, the only way to handle a bully is to give him a taste of his own medicine.

[font="Calibri"][size="3"] [/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]If I were you I would punish anyone who initiates an attack on any Newbie to temporarily lower his level to be 2+ level under the newbie (caped at level 1 of course). And to add salt to injury you should mark him so all Newbies would know that he is a Newbie killer. Let see if he likes being ganged up by Newbies :P[/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"] [/size][/font]

[font="Calibri"][size="3"]Unless you give them a harsh reason not to attack, nothing can stop them. They are not playing to follow the rules of real life. It’s a lawless life and they will do whatever they want. That’s the whole point of joining :P[/size][/font]

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[quote name='Farraj' timestamp='1307627521' post='4821309']
In my point of view, the only way to handle a bully is to give him a taste of his own medicine.[/quote]You can actually approach this from an opposite but similar direction. How about when you initiate PvP combat, for the next N game time units [2 days, 3 days?], a number of NPC's will be hostile to you, which have levels equal to your level, plus the difference between your level and the level of whoever you attacked.

So if you're lvl 20, and kill someone who is lvl 2, you're going to have enemies chasing you for the next 3 days who are lvl 38, and will likely dole out the spankings in abundance to your puny lvl 20 character.
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Isn't it just as simple as "don't let them kill the noobs"? Can't you have the first 'noob' zones unable to initiate PvP? Can't you make it so only players within 3 levels higher/lower of each other can fight each other? Only the lower level player can initiate combat?
Honestly, aren't there other ways to make your way around this problem without ruining the game for the noobkillers?
It seems pretty simple to me.
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[/quote]
There are groups out there that exist solely to screw with other people. I first encountered such a group in Eve Online.
[/quote]

I am glad that I'm not the only one who's endured this.

You could just make it so that they can shut off the PvP until they want to do it.
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A fun aspect that you could add to the game to give both higher levels and low levels a mechanic would be a bounty system.

Lets say you have a new player thats getting griefed, after x amount of deaths from a higher set of levels, produce a bounty on the head of the griefer for higher levels to essentially do the same thing.

Think, level 1 gets killed by level 10 over and over, at level 15 theres a bounty to take out the level 10 with a reward because of his bad tactics.

-Mayple
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[b]Fundamentally, people respond to incentives[/b]: If someone kills a noob, making it cost will reduce the problem.

Still, I'm all for freedom in games, so someone should be able to grief... so long as they are willing to pay for it :)
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The problem with many suggestions here is that it might very well turn into a fun challenge instead.

"How long can I survive with all those high-level NPCs and/or players hunting me?"
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I was sorta trolling with my last post, so I'll actually add my opinion.

If you want to have an open PvP game that can survive long-term, don't just allow anyone to kill anyone else. Only allow players to attack other players who are within n degrees of separation from you socially. For example, only your friends and your friends' friends. When a stranger ganks you, you get mad at the game and want to quit. When your friend ganks you, you get mad at your friend and want revenge.

MMO developers always say the want to learn from the web/social world, but they rarely do.
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That's a horrible idea. It would be so boring only fighting friends and their friends who I don't like. In most games you make allies with your friends, and then conquer; it wouldn't be much fun if you're limited to a tiny selection of people.
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Well true, "friend" isn't the right term. You'd need to add new relationship between characters - enemies. A player is involved in non-consensual PvP with their enemies, and the friends of their enemies, and the enemies of their friends. Clans would world the same way.

To me it seems both meaningful and fair. Full open PvP (ala UO) does not work. The two common ways to make it work are to limit it by area (Eve) or time (old SWG) or both (WoW). The way I described retains the excitement of being vulnerable to PvP any time anywhere, but solves the griefing problem through social means: no one is friends or enemies with griefers, so they can't participate.

It's been years since I've played an MMO, but the most enjoyable PvP I participated in was against known enemies (individuals or clans). If you base your conflict around realm vs realm, or completely open, these players have no real relationship with each other, griefing will be a huge problem. By basing conflict around social relationships that actually exist in the game, you'd get more fun less grief.

EDIT: This also gives you new ways to add meaning to PvP, but indirectly, by adding meaning to friend/enemy relationships. Say you have to be friends to trade. Well I know Varine makes the best weapons, I'd have to travel for hours to find ones as good...BUT she's enemies with half of the GameDev clan, and I realllly don't want them on my ass.
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