• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
nilkn

Dentists

22 posts in this topic

This is just a warning of caution.

I'd been going to the same dentist for probably a decade. He was my neighbor before he was my dentist, so we were friends. I didn't feel that I was taking very good care of my teeth over the past five years, but he never really said I had anything to worry about. There were a few small issues he'd fix over the years, but overall he never told me there was anything to worry about.

Well, I started looking at my teeth myself in a little more detail and started to disagree. I decided to head over to a different dentist to get another opinion.

They told me I have 11 cavities (some are very small, though), that I nearly have gum disease, that I have some bad infections, and they immediately got me using prescription toothpaste and mouth wash. As it happens the cavities are individually rather small, so I can't feel them at all, and they aren't really visible, not even with x-rays, due to the orientations of the cavities.

I nearly shit my pants. Obviously any dental health problems I have are my own fault, but I feel very misled. I regularly went to the dentist for a decade. There's no way *all* of that just magically appeared since my last visit to the dentist, which was fairly recent, actually.

So I'm just writing this as a friendly warning. It might be worthwhile occasionally getting a second opinion on things like your teeth, if you're worried at all.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote]As it happens the cavities are individually rather small, so I can't feel them at all, and they aren't really visible, not even with x-rays, due to the orientations of the cavities.[/quote]
How did they find them?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1307406209' post='4820312']
Did you look at the xrays yourself? Maybe you should get a 3rd opinion just in case your friend wasn't as bad a dentist as you thought.
[/quote]

Yeah, this sounds like a good idea to me too.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mussi' timestamp='1307406634' post='4820314']
[quote]As it happens the cavities are individually rather small, so I can't feel them at all, and they aren't really visible, not even with x-rays, due to the orientations of the cavities.[/quote]
How did they find them?
[/quote]
Seriously. Sounds like the second dentist you went to is a bit shady.
"[i]Oh, uh, you have cavities. 12 of them. They're invisible though, even to x-rays... due to their... orientation. And um, you can't feel them either. Fairies put them there. Also you have gum disease. And [url="http://benryves.com/index.php?module=comic&id=22"]aids[/url]. That'd be $1200.00, after your insurance covers the other bazillion dollars. You need to use prescription toothpaste from now on, that I get a kickback for recommending. Because... uh, toothpaste heals cavitities! Or something.[/i]"

But who knows? Get a third opinion. An online message board about programming doesn't count.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mussi' timestamp='1307406634' post='4820314']
[quote]As it happens the cavities are individually rather small, so I can't feel them at all, and they aren't really visible, not even with x-rays, due to the orientations of the cavities.[/quote]
How did they find them?
[/quote]


My description wasn't good. They *are* visible with x-rays, but their depth can't be judged due to orientation. This only applies to some of them. They only took two quick and cheap x-rays from the sides, so it's fairly easy to visualize and see that this explanation is logical.

[quote name='ChurchSkiz'][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Did you look at the xrays yourself? Maybe you should get a 3rd opinion just in case your friend wasn't as bad a dentist as you thought.[/quote][/size][/color]

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]No, I didn't see the x-rays myself.[/size][/color]

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Should I legitimately be worried about being ripped off? The second dentist was recommended to me by a friend and has had his private practice here for years. Well, I'm not sure what to think. The first dentist is getting old, he's planning on retiring, and he doesn't seem like he cares anymore. He was even canceling some of my appointments--at least twice he canceled. The second dentist definitely did not come off as shady.[/size][/color]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1307409112' post='4820322']Should I legitimately be worried about being ripped off?[/quote]In my experience, dentists are shady characters. That said, I don't know many dentists.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's[i] [/i]certainly a [i]possibility[/i] but you should check into it a little more.

I've heard of it before, and you'll find plenty of anecdotes with similar scams or upsells in a Google search. There was a Reader's Digest "sting" way back that had some pretty poor results for honesty, but articles like that are usually sensationalized.

Although it's annoying not knowing who to trust, you may as well get another opinion. Wouldn't you rather pay the checkup fee again and know for sure, than pay more for unnecessary work?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I had a dentist that I did not like for last year. I think he did a bad job filing a cavity and he did all the work himself (so nobody is there to counter his opinion).

1.) Make sure you get a dentist that has dental assistants.

2.) You did say you don't feel you take very good care of your teeth. So 11 cavities might not be bad. You can bring that up if you go back and describe that your other dentist said you were in good shape and that you want to see the x-rays to verify.

If getting a 3rd opinion, I would call a 3rd place and describe this exact situation and just ask them to look for a small fee maybe. I mean they are going to know if your gums look bad and of an infection in a minute.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1307409112' post='4820322']
[color="#1c2837"][size="2"]No, I didn't see the x-rays myself.[/size][/color]

[color="#1c2837"][size="2"]Should I legitimately be worried about being ripped off? The second dentist was recommended to me by a friend and has had his private practice here for years. Well, I'm not sure what to think. The first dentist is getting old, he's planning on retiring, and he doesn't seem like he cares anymore. He was even canceling some of my appointments--at least twice he canceled. The second dentist definitely did not come off as shady.[/size][/color]
[/quote]

I'm not insinuating he is ripping you off (which he may be), but everyone has different personalities. He may see a microscopic dot on your xray and freak out that you have a cavity whereas someone else might wait till the next appointment to see what the status is.

I'm thinking there's a middle ground between your 1st and 2nd dentist.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='krez' timestamp='1307417397' post='4820369']
Was it this guy?

[img]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8711/dentist.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Someone gave you -1 for one of the best dentist references in pop culture :(
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeez, I thought this thread was about a novel game idea.

First-person driller? Role-playing? Buccal tactics? ASCII roguelike probequest?

It had possibilities for a moment.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1307409112' post='4820322'][color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Should I legitimately be worried about being ripped off? The second dentist was recommended to me by a friend and has had his private practice here for years. Well, I'm not sure what to think. The first dentist is getting old, he's planning on retiring, and he doesn't seem like he cares anymore. He was even canceling some of my appointments--at least twice he canceled. The second dentist definitely did not come off as shady.[/size][/color]
[/quote]

IMO yes. In all honesty, and in my experience, dentists tend to be incompetent and desirous of giving you more treatment than is necessary in order to make more money. I've even known them to damage people's teeth and give bad advice so that they can prescribe more treatment in the future. Also I've known them to give "oh you definately need lots of treatment" statements to people they thought were on a private healthcare scheme and then on finding out that they were on public healthcare change to a "oh your teeth are fine, you don't need treatment" statement. Given you were having no problems with your teeth before and and given your previous dentist was obviously not trying to rip you off I'd be more inclined to trust the previous dentist.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='forsandifs' timestamp='1307459585' post='4820540']
IMO yes. In all honesty, and in my experience, dentists tend to be incompetent and desirous of giving you more treatment than is necessary in order to make more money. I've even known them to damage people's teeth and give bad advice so that they can prescribe more treatment in the future. Also I've known them to give "oh you definately need lots of treatment" statements to people they thought were on a private healthcare scheme and then on finding out that they were on public healthcare change to a "oh your teeth are fine, you don't need treatment" statement. Given you were having no problams with your teeth before and and given your previous dentist was obviously not trying to rip you off I'd be more inclined to trust the previous dentist.
[/quote]

This is a problem with the US medical system, not just dentists. They are just a susceptible to malpractice suits as any other doctor, and the US malpractice system favors the patients so much that it is in every doctor's best interest to over treat people lest they get sued and have their license brought into question. More times than not the malpractice suits are brought up by private insurance companies, not the patients, and that is why they tend to over treat insured people, because they are riskier not to treat.

And the dude pointed out earlier that he was worried about his dental health as a non-professional. I'd say that is enough to warrant favoring the latter dentist. Dental health is probably one place where I'd be more inclined to over treat anyway if you can afford it. It's pretty shitty trying to schedule emergency dental surgery on a weekend while also trying to figure out how to eat anything and resist the urge to pull your tooth out of your skull with a pair of needle nose pliers to make the pain stop.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1307404621' post='4820304']I nearly shit my pants.[/quote]Don't be so scared. It's not [b]so[/b] bad. I agree with others however, the 2nd guy is a bit shady. I don't know how much fixing those 11 defects will cost you but if it costs as much as I had to pay here, then you might probably want to consider a volumetric scanning. It can offset you 1000 easily but it's immensely more accurate than X-rays.
If your original dentist is going to retire then I agree you are very likely in a bit of a problem. Be aware of dentists even if they just "feel" ok, I am close to having another lawsuit to one of them right now... You are absolutely in the right position to have multiple consultations.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1307460899' post='4820552']This is a problem with the US medical system, not just dentists.[/quote]

I do not deny it, but I was actually talking about the UK.

[quote]They are just a susceptible to malpractice suits as any other doctor, and the US malpractice system favors the patients so much that it is in every doctor's best interest to over treat people lest they get sued and have their license brought into question. More times than not the malpractice suits are brought up by private insurance companies, not the patients, and that is why they tend to over treat insured people, because they are riskier not to treat.

And the dude pointed out earlier that he was worried about his dental health as a non-professional. I'd say that is enough to warrant favoring the latter dentist. Dental health is probably one place where I'd be more inclined to over treat anyway if you can afford it. It's pretty shitty trying to schedule emergency dental surgery on a weekend while also trying to figure out how to eat anything and resist the urge to pull your tooth out of your skull with a pair of needle nose pliers to make the pain stop.[/quote]

The worrying thing is though when the dentist is so incompetent or malevolent or a mixture of both that his over treatment actually damages or even seriously damages your teeth. This is not infrequent in the UK. Perhaps it would be less of a problem if lawsuits were not so rare in the UK.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Bregma' timestamp='1307459236' post='4820538']
Jeez, I thought this thread was about a novel game idea.

First-person driller? Role-playing? Buccal tactics? ASCII roguelike probequest?

It had possibilities for a moment.
[/quote]

Toejam & Earl?

[img]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t100/kingrick56/065.jpg[/img]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I looked into getting a third opinion but haven't been able to get anything scheduled soon enough, as I am going on a long two-month trip tomorrow in fact. The new dentist was willing to get me in this week, though, so I decided to go in and have them do what they considered most major.

I'm increasingly on the fence over this. I need to get a third opinion and probably will in time when I can. Every time I've went into the new dentits's office they've asked me, sometimes more than once, if I have dental insurance, even though I've filled out numerous forms, answered the question several times, and even went in there a few months ahead of the first appointment and filled out all those forms then as well.

I'm not fond of the way dentist's offices work anymore. I don't like that the dentist himself doesn't give me any advice, only his assistants who do little more than put napkins on my chest and suction saliva out of my mouth. The dental assistants wanted me to buy a toothbrush from them today. I asked them how long these cavities had been there, and one of the assistants said "from the x-rays, probably six months." It's weird that I evidently went years without any cavities, yet in the last six months eleven popped up and she's warning me that "these are the only teeth you'll get." Maybe it's all true and dental health is just far more finicky that I thought. On the other hand, their obsession with insurance makes me think they are trying to schedule every little trick they can. (For the record, I do *not* have dental insurance right now, but given how confused they have been over it, I'm seriously not convinced the dentist himself knows that. The worst part is that during my last visit I didn't even get a chance to talk to him, because by the time he showed up in the room, there was a gas mask on my face and multiple sticks in my mouth.)

I'm just tired of the mixed messages. I'd be inclined to just return to my regular dentist if he wasn't in the process of retiring, but recently he was canceling my appointments almost as often as I was calling to make them, which is one of the factors that led me to consult a new dentist in the first place.

Regardless, I'm going to take very good care of my teeth from now on, so this is not all bad, but it is very confusing.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Last year I went to a dentists' office to get my teeth fixed after having neglected them. They put fillings into one. A few days later, as I was washing my teeth, the filling started coming out! I was a bit surprised but I'm in no way a dentist so didn't think much of it at the time. That weekend I returned and this time it was another dentist (at the same office) who looked at it. He said the previous dentist used the wrong filling. It should have been a white filling (because apparently those are better quality), not the black filling they used. :blink: Not sure what to think about that but it was a bit annoying.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='nilkn' timestamp='1307657888' post='4821502']
I'd be inclined to just return to my regular dentist if he wasn't in the process of retiring, but recently he was canceling my appointments almost as often as I was calling to make them, which is one of the factors that led me to consult a new dentist in the first place.
[/quote]

If he's that close to packing in his shingle, how about asking [i]him[/i] for recommendations? Less of a crap shoot than picking names out of a phone book, and you're likely to wind up with a trusted colleague that won't try to defraud you any more than he did. :wink:

Chances are when he does retire, his patients are going to be redistributed to fellow practices anyways - Get your pick of the lot now before they start to fill up.

I'd be wary of what you just described, with the insurance details and the upselling. "Only teeth you've got" is an emotional pitch, which I don't trust. Maybe its different elsewhere, but I've never been in a dental office that sold products - They've recommended stuff and suggested brands, told me where to find it locally, but anything I left with was either included in the treatment or given to me as a sample.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='GameCreator' timestamp='1307665511' post='4821540']
It should have been a white filling (because apparently those are better quality), not the black filling they used. :blink: Not sure what to think about that but it was a bit annoying.
[/quote]

Not all dentists are trained for bonding white composites - From what I understand, they have to take additional courses on their own. Also, some insurance plans will not cover composites, meaning you pay the difference. Since they're trickier to place, they [i]may[/i] fail early if the bonding didn't go perfectly.

Silver amalgam fillings are harder, cheaper and need much less time and skill to place, but do need more drilling and can weaken the tooth. The important thing is to remember that they're two different technologies with their own pros and cons. My last two dentists preferred amalgam for the solid, less-visible teeth in the back, and composite when looks mattered.

At some point you have to figure out how much you trust your dentist - One that invested the time and money in the training [i]might[/i] be recommending it just to make a return on his investment, but they might also think it's the best thing for your teeth.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0