[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307564177' post='4821056']
Maybe it takes me ten years to make a MMORPG. But if I make fifty smaller games before making it, it'll take thirty years. I want to put all my efforts as directly into my project as I can.

If you're going to use something like Hero Engine or Big World then just go for it, with those tools the technical challenges are solved for you (Its still an insane amount of work but everything you do will get you closer to your goal)

If you're going to make something from scratch then the recommendation to start smaller applies, any code you write as a beginner will be of poor quality and difficult to maintain and expand upon , thus pretty much any code you write for your mmorpg while you're still a beginner will be worthless and has to be thrown out and replaced. (This means that you won't really make any progress at all until you've learned the things you need to know and therefore learning those things quickly should be the highest priority (smaller projects teach you the basic concepts alot faster than large projects do and you'll have something to show for your efforts faster aswell)
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Thanks. Yes, this is why I'm looking to use tools.

[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307568252' post='4821091']
[quote name='Radikalizm' timestamp='1307567989' post='4821089']
When it comes to an issue of pure programming you should not be asking which language is the easiest, because that answer will absolutely not get you the desired results, the question you want to be asking is 'which language will be the most efficient in helping me to complete my goal?', a hammer might be easier to use than a powerdrill, but you won't be able to drill a hole in the wall with a hammer

C++ is a popular high-performance language for game development, and a lot of available engines are written in C++ and require you to write applications with C++, but it is generally not advised for people who have absolutely no programming experience to start off with C++
So here we come back to the issue of general programming experience (seems it wasn't that irrelevant to your question after all), since you will need to master a language if you want to program any larger project

Yes, but which program that is otherwise helpful to me requires that you use C++? I don't need "a lot of engines", I need "these are more geared towards what you want and they are coded in this". It seems to me that a lot of game making programs geared towards newbies have their own language, and while I have a general idea of which major languages are harder or easier (similarly, that's easy to look up if I don't know), I have no idea about the ones that have been made up specifically for these programs.
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Engines generally have scripting languages that come with them, so you'll have to get oriented in what they are. All languages are vastly the same when they share a common paradigm. I don't think any of the engines you plan to use strain too far outside of imperial or otherwise OOP programming so they will all be right about the same. In that case, it doesn't matter which scripting language you pick, just flip a coin and go with it.
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Thanks, this is why I was wondering which might be easiest, because I don't know the differences between them.

As I said before, something like Eclipse's language ( http://www.touchofdeathforums.com/eclipse/ ) seems extremely easy, as first-timers have made scripts in as little as three hours. Something like Assembly seems impossible for me, as people need half a year to get the basics. All these programs seem to have their own language and as I haven't tried all of them, nor have I see anyone comparing the languages between them, I don't know anything about them. If anyone who's tried multiple programs for what I'm looking for could tell me which language/program they personally found easier and most flexible, that would helpful.

[quote name='fyrkant' timestamp='1307567126' post='4821080']
What are you talking about???
The whole point is that people are giving advice on the wrong topic.
NOT that it's wrong to give advice based on personal experience as a general idea (it can be difficult to do anything else).
For the umpteenth time, the OP's question was and is not "how difficult is this?" or "should I attempt this at all?".

No, it is (as interpreted by me):

"How can I make a 3D MMO (yes, massive is a requirement) RPG with basic graphics, despite the fact I know nothing about programming?"

The answer to this question is: "You can't."; assuming of course the OP doesn't have a few million dollars of disposable income. Even with tools, the architecture alone requires a lot of expertise to get right, a pile of code to glue together parts and define the world's behavior.

As much as he or you might dislike the answer doesn't change it, or the relevance of that answer. The best, quickest way to make a 3D MMORPG with basic graphics when you know nothing about programming and don't have a few million dollars is to start with learning to program very basic things. This necessarily involves making them unrelated to the end goal of making a 3D MMORPG with basic graphics.
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I did say to ignore costs. If it's an option that requires millions of dollars, I'm still all ears. Or is your answer to that "spend your millions employing a professional team to make a game and/or game maker for you", because that isn't what I'm looking for, as you can tell by my original post.

I don't know what kind of an engine uses Assembly language as their script language. You'd only really use that if your programs needed some hardcore control over the hardware. To use Assembly language efficiently, you should be in the know-how with the architecture of your CPU and general computer make-up. Definitely not for a beginner.

As I said, the aspects in the language repeat in all languages. A for loop looks exactly the same in C++ as it does in Java. So does a method call. So does a new declaration, array declaration, etc. C++ can present cryptic aspects when it comes to pointer handling and so it is not recommended to a beginner (the crazy stuff that happens with memory mismanagement can fill up a book on it's own).

Scripting languages are designed to automate things for the developer, not to create a brand new programming language. The idea is to do exactly what you're looking for: simplify things. You have a trade-ff to make: either you want an easy, limited language, or you want a little bit more complete, and more capable language to work with.

I'm sure other people who have experienced various languages can express themselves better about them. The language Eclipse is using is I believe Visual Basic 6. Fairly easy language, and I think it is quite capable.

Game Boy and possibly Game Boy Colour games require Assembly, and the tools for making them are generally so limited that you're forced to use Assembly anyway even if the tool is written in something else. Of course this is an example to illustrate possible difficulty levels, I'm sure there are no 3D MMORPG makers which require you use Assembly.

I'd welcome it if you were to review the languages and see if any of them are notably different, seeing as you appear to have some knowledge about this.

No, it is (as interpreted by me):

"How can I make a 3D MMO (yes, massive is a requirement) RPG with basic graphics, despite the fact I know nothing about programming?"

The answer to this question is: "You can't."; assuming of course the OP doesn't have a few million dollars of disposable income. Even with tools, the architecture alone requires a lot of expertise to get right, a pile of code to glue together parts and define the world's behavior.

Let me show you something:

THREAD: "3D MMORPG makers for newbies?"
"Hi, I'm completely new to everything (video game making and this site), but I wanted to make a MMORPG in 3D where you can move via keys instead of the mouse. I've been looking around for programs for newbies that might be able to do what I want, but they all seem to be for click-and-move single-player games, shooter games, or 2D games. Since I'm so new to everything, I'd want any scripting/programming to be in a language easy for beginners to learn."
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It doesn't say, "How can I make a 3D MMO (yes, massive is a requirement) RPG with basic graphics, despite the fact I know nothing about programming?"
It asks for if a specific type of programs are available.
The questions are different and the relevant answers will be different.
An example of a helpful answer, like I've said before, would be "there aren't any programs like that, you'd have to make it from scratch, I'd suggest to use programming language X as I think it works well for this type of game" (if that was the case).

As much as he or you might dislike the answer doesn't change it, or the relevance of that answer.

STOP ASSUMING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK, and why are you claiming I'm saying it's irrelevant for any other reason than that it actually is?
I don't dislike anyone's answers.
My only points are:
1) Some of the answers in this thread are irrelevant to the topic and thus not necessarily helping the OP in any way at all, so if the people posting them actually wanted to be helpful, they'd have to change their approach.
2) Thumbing down the OP's responses seems rude and childish considering what he was replying to (example: an unhelpful reply) and how he was replying (example: not rudely).
Really, how difficult is this to understand?

I didn't rate you down, but:
You likely got rated down because you've decided that people shouldn't behave like they want, because the OP should be able to behave like they want, but somehow fail to see the irony in this...

And when did I do this?
Deciding that people shouldn't behave like they want is generally the job of the mod of the forum, there is likely to be chaos otherwise.
Deciding that the OP can behave like they want sounds like something a mod would not allow, I fail to see both how the OP has "behaved like they want" in any negative sort of way and how I have "decided that he can do so".
I would see the irony if there was any to be seen.

For you guys who still don't even get what I'm trying to say in this discussion, I'm not saying "this is a good reply! delete all the other ones, I'm the ruler around here and decide such things!"
I'm saying, if any of you wanted to be helpful to the OP with the questions at hand, that's the type of response that actually is useful to him.
The only reason I'm saying any of this at all is because some of you guys were treating the OP in such a strange way (i.e. rating down his replies as if he had done something wrong just by saying "thanks, although this is not what I'm looking for").

The recent replies are more relevant to the topic as far as I can see.

In general, staying on topic is likely to be more helpful than not to. That was my point. It's also in the FAQ for this forum.

[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307571243' post='4821108']
Game Boy and possibly Game Boy Colour games require Assembly, and the tools for making them are generally so limited that you're forced to use Assembly anyway even if the tool is written in something else.

I'd welcome it if you were to review the languages and see if any of them are notably different, seeing as you appear to have some knowledge about this.

So that confirms my statement. Game Boy and Game Boy Color were consoles released in the late 1990s. Their hardware was severely limited. In fact, the Game Boy Color is nowadays outperformed by me dear-to-heart TI-84 on which I have began my programming adventure and which features the z80 assembly and TI-BASIC as two official languages of choice for the programmer. In order to get a game running smoothly on that kind of limited console, you really had to savor all your resources and be mindful of what you're doing, therefore, assembly was required. The memory was measure in kilobytes, and my 2D platformer written in Java starts off at ~60 Mbs of allocated memory.

I wish to say there was an easy way to say which language is best for you. There really is no concrete answer to it. I can say that language X is very good for you. Then some other guy will come in and say that language Y is better because it lets you do things such and such way. The reality is, both languages will probably get you where you want to be, and the difference between them is vastly negligent, particularly if scripting languages are concerned (I guess it really comes down to the parser in the engine more so than the language itself).
[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307571243' post='4821108']
Game Boy and possibly Game Boy Colour games require Assembly, and the tools for making them are generally so limited that you're forced to use Assembly anyway even if the tool is written in something else.

I'd welcome it if you were to review the languages and see if any of them are notably different, seeing as you appear to have some knowledge about this.

Assembly is a very broad term, each processor architecture has its own assembly language, and you should look at it as one step above native machine code; therefore assembly is only an actual option if you're going to do development for a single platform, and if you really have a good reason for writing in assembly (eg. if there's no higher level environment available, or if you have the illusion that you can beat a compiler in assembly optimization)


A global language review is close to impossible since there are so many varying languages and paradigms, all with their own pro's and cons
You'll need general programming experience and an understanding of global concepts, it gets much easier then to make decisions on engines and programming languages, and you will be able to make all of these comparisons yourself
[/quote]

I'm not saying I'm going to write anything in Assembly and I'm not saying that I want someone to review all the languages/scripting under the sun. I'm asking for reviews because I haven't tested everything myself, I don't need experience to read other people's opinions. Reviews of the languages/scripting used in the MMORPG makers listed (or others which you think are better suited to my needs) is what I want. If no one has anything like that and no one is willing to peek at them to make their own opinions, then my thread here should be finished:

HeroEngine
Realmcrafter
Big World
UDK
Unity