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juicypuffin

Restrictions/details/reviews on MMORPG making programs?

7 posts in this topic

Continuing from here: [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/603700-3d-mmorpg-makers-for-newbies/"]http://www.gamedev.n...rs-for-newbies/[/url]

Here are the programs which were suggested for newbies to make 3D MMORPGs, and what I found out about their costs/restrictions. If anyone could further elaborate on any of these programs so I can have a complete review on them, that would be great. I'm interested in[b] cost, restrictions/charges after you actually make a game, OS restrictions on the final product, how easy/hard the scripting/languages are to learn, and the restrictions in what the program can actually do [/b]plus anything else that might be useful. If anyone knows if more programs that can make 3D MMORPGs, please post them and review them if possible (cost is not an issue, I want a breakdown of all the options out there even if they cost millions).

[size="4"][b]I'm not looking for opinions on whether or not I should make a MMORPG, on if I should make other games first, or anything else unrelated.[/b][/size]

[b]HeroEngine:[/b]
Their end-result games are only compatible on Windows but Macintosh and iOS support should be out later this year. If your team is twenty-five people or smaller, they keep 30% of revenue (if you make your game free, they don't charge you anything either) from the game but give you their software and control your servers for "free". If you have a larger team, you don't have to pay revenue and you can use your own servers but a license cost could possibly run up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, according to some comments on this forum (it would be great if anyone knew actual costs other than speculation). You have to use your own graphics and everything, but they have some basics you can use for reference.

In terms of how easy it is to make things and have them work in the game, this seems to be the best program in the list.

[b] Realmcrafter Professional:[/b]
Apparently the non-professional one is useless and the professional one is still in beta testing. $165 currently but normally costs $300. No info on restrictions found yet, they haven't answered my Email yet either.

Neither UDK or Unity comes with anything that even resembles a MMO backend and in the case of UDK it appears to be almost impossible to even use it for the client (You don't have enough control over the networking to replace the server side of the engine). With unity you can make a MMO client but the hard part (the server) is completely missing.

[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1307583963' post='4821165']
...the primary restrictions i know of is that RealmCrafter only scales using zones and instances (Given the power of modern server hardware this isn't a huge problem unless you need to run complex AI or physics for alot of npcs or other entities aswell)
[/quote]

[b]Big World:[/b]
"Big World Indie": Runs on Windows. Can help you with servers if you want them to. For a team of twenty-five people or less, $299 per year. They take 10% gross royalty on revenue. You can only have a max of 10,000 subscribers/accounts. Source code uses Python.

"Big World Indie Source": Team of twenty-five or less. $2,999 annually. Max 10,000 subscribers/accounts, 10% gross royalty on any commercial revenue from the game. Source code stuff in Python and C++.

"Big World Commercial": $200,000+. Access to Python and C++ source code.
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[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307575406' post='4821139']
Continuing from here: [url="http://www.gamedev.net/topic/603700-3d-mmorpg-makers-for-newbies/"]http://www.gamedev.n...rs-for-newbies/[/url]

Here are the programs which were suggested for newbies to make 3D MMORPGs, and what I found out about their costs/restrictions. If anyone could further elaborate on any of these programs so I can have a complete review on them, that would be great. I'm interested in[b] cost, restrictions/charges after you actually make a game, OS restrictions on the final product, how easy/hard the scripting/languages are to learn, and the restrictions in what the program can actually do [/b]plus anything else that might be useful. If anyone knows if more programs that can make 3D MMORPGs, please post them and review them if possible (cost is not an issue, I want a breakdown of all the options out there even if they cost millions).

[size="4"][b]I'm not looking for opinions on whether or not I should make a MMORPG, on if I should make other games first, or anything else unrelated.[/b][/size]

[b]HeroEngine:[/b]
Their end-result games are only compatible on Windows but Macintosh and iOS support should be out later this year. If your team is twenty-five people or smaller, they keep 30% of revenue (if you make your game free, they don't charge you anything either) from the game but give you their software and control your servers for "free". If you have a larger team, you don't have to pay revenue and you can use your own servers but a license cost could possibly run up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, according to some comments on this forum (it would be great if anyone knew actual costs other than speculation). You have to use your own graphics and everything, but they have some basics you can use for reference.

In terms of how easy it is to make things and have them work in the game, this seems to be the best program in the list.

[b] Realmcrafter Professional:[/b]
Apparently the non-professional one is useless and the professional one is still in beta testing. $165 currently but normally costs $300. No info on restrictions found yet, they haven't answered my Email yet either.

[b]Big World:[/b]
"Big World Indie": Runs on Windows. Can help you with servers if you want them to. For a team of twenty-five people or less, $299 per year. They take 10% gross royalty on revenue. You can only have a max of 10,000 subscribers/accounts. Source code uses Python.

"Big World Indie Source": Team of twenty-five or less. $2,999 annually. Max 10,000 subscribers/accounts, 10% gross royalty on any commercial revenue from the game. Source code stuff in Python and C++.

"Big World Commercial": $200,000+. Access to Python and C++ source code.


[b]UDK:[/b]
Can make games on/for(?) Windows or iOS. It's free if you're using it for education or making a non-commercial game. If you make a game you're going to make money off of, you have to pay $99 US up-front, and then after your game makes over $50,000 you have to give them 25% royalty on whatever future money you make from it.

[b]Unity:[/b]
Can be run on both Windows and Macintosh, and the end-result games can be played on either platform (unsure about Linux/Ubuntu/etc.) and games can also be make for computers, online, handhelds, or consoles. Haven't yet found if they charge you anything.
[/quote]

Neither UDK or Unity comes with anything that even resembles a MMO backend and in the case of UDK it appears to be almost impossible to even use it for the client (You don't have enough control over the networking to replace the server side of the engine). With unity you can make a MMO client but the hard part (the server) is completely missing.

For the other 3 the primary restrictions i know of is that RealmCrafter only scales using zones and instances (Given the power of modern server hardware this isn't a huge problem unless you need to run complex AI or physics for alot of npcs or other entities aswell)
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[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307575406' post='4821139']
[b]Unity:[/b]
Can be run on both Windows and Macintosh, and the end-result games can be played on either platform (unsure about Linux/Ubuntu/etc.)[/quote]
Unity does not currently support Linux.

[quote]Haven't yet found if they charge you anything.[/quote]
You should be able to find most if not all of the answers you're looking for [url="http://unity3d.com/unity/licenses.html"]here[/url], [url="http://unity3d.com/unity/faq"]here[/url], and [url="http://unity3d.com/unity/unity-end-user-license-3.x"]here[/url].
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Thanks guys.

Unity and UDK were listed by someone else as tools that would work to build MMORPGs and I had only glanced at the sites a bit before I posted them here, but I'll strike them from the list now.
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[quote name='juicypuffin' timestamp='1307586695' post='4821180']
Thanks guys.

Unity and UDK were listed by someone else as tools that would work to build MMORPGs and I had only glanced at the sites a bit before I posted them here, but I'll strike them from the list now.
[/quote]

Unity can be used for MMO clients and is being used by funcom(Makers of Age of Conan) and for their upcoming MMO so its definitly possible and Unity has quite a few advantages of its own, (Runs on multiple platforms, inside browsers, the game doesn't require installation, it supports streaming of terrain and other data etc), it just won't be as easy as it would be with dedicated MMO engines (But it would still be easier than it would be to not use any engine at all or hack around UDKs restrictions)
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[url="http://unity3d.com/unity/engine/networking"]http://unity3d.com/u...gine/networking[/url]

MMO integration for Unity. Never tried any of them myself, so I can't say whether it's good or not.
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I think by far your biggest hurdle will be doing your server code/acquiring a server. These things should be easy to find general information for on Google. Once you have a decent understanding of those you should have a much better idea of what the real questions you need to be asking are.

Even though you didn't ask for it, part of the reason you got the wrong advice in your other thread is because you are asking all the wrong questions, which leads people to believe that you need the advice you think does not apply. Kind of like going onto a medical forum and asking, "What kind of bandaid is best for curing cancer?"
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