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wolf9891

Engine coders v.s Game Company Engines

50 posts in this topic

Well the topic might read a little confusing,so ill explain.Since ive been on gamedev all ive seen is people recommend others to just design they're own engine.Dont get me wrong im not saying that its bad but as the saying goes "time is money".So the longer you waste on making a horrid engine you could use the leading free engines out right now.I'll name a few engines you could use or even start off with by editing yourself completely and making it yourself.

UDK is a great example of a engine to use for FPS like games,im not to sure about it going into a RPG but would be time consuming.Remember folks time is money and having to spend more then 5months on a engine you wanna design yourself cause you wanna feel "PRO" is just completely dumb.

Unity 3D flexible,great to start off with,extremely easy to use just like the UDK and you can find a high amount of tuts all over the tuts.

Engines you can use to build from
i only have one so rage if you want but this is the only one i found updated and open sourced.Doom Engine or the Eternity Engine.I can link you to it,this engine was used for DragonNest so thats a good thing but its missing a high amount of things but its great on tools so your lucky on that.

Now what grinds my gears really is the whole "be pro make your own engine" and then if you dont do it you get negative rep.We're indie game designers,its hard to believe but we are basely a community not just solo acts like big companys.We dont need to compete right now cause we can help each other out of the kindness of our hearts.Ive seen such horrid advice giving like "make 2D" yes 2d is amazing and fun but a company like steam does not what a copy of angry birds done to death back on they're shelves with horrid graphics and that wont sell.I made this thread to hear what you suppose "Pro"s have to say about me advising the beginners to use engines like unity and UDK.Also i want to hear your side.BTW Steam announced they'd stop 2D games from going into they're market.

Note:i expect you to come on here with a open mind not a narrow mind fan boy of 2d games and of self coder of a engine.
-3

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What I think alot of people fail to realize when making a game engine is most people don't just say, I think I am going to make a game engine so I can make this game. Alot of it comes from working with engines and the realization that you need more or custom things that the other engine just doesn't offer. When you start making your own game eventually you start to build your own engine.

I know alot of people that use old games and then expand more on it to make there engine for there next game replacing assets, art and simple functions they used in there first game to create an actual engine. But writing an engine from scratch is so counter productive unless you plan with a team to write something that other engines can't offer.

I think its smart to look at it from both angles, view the pros and cons on what engines have what and what game engines don't have what you need. Sometimes writing your own engine, or extracting what you need from one engine is the best move, especially if your making a FPSRPG, you kinda have to write alot of your own. Or if you are trying to make a FPS, why reinvent the wheel, theres plenty of great technology thats already out there that takes care of the head ache!
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If you agree awesome if some dont to each his own but in the end when you coming crying on GameDev crying about why your game looks like trash and why does everyone make a game so quickly with such high quality models and maps.Its simple cause we use Company made engines and we didnt waste our time on designing our own engine.
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And Panda3d. Everyone seems to forget Panda3d on these lists.

The only reasons you should ever have to build a game engine of any kind:

1. You want to make an engine for the sake of being able to say you have.
2. You have a theory that cannot be implemented fully in any existing engine, and you have already attempted it in existing projects. (And even then you are better off taking one of the OpenSource Engines and reworking the parts that are holding you back.)
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Steam won't allow 2D on their market any more? Really?

I hate to see the 2D genre become this degrading synonym to "indie newb material." Yeah, it's not 3D, but it's still a genre and the genre that started it all pretty much. I'd like to see 2D taken seriously too.

Back on topic, I thought the same thing the other day. Why are indie developers not helping eachother out? It shouldn't be a fight to the death. Isn't that kind of how the market is already? Yeah that'll make you stand out.
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* Very few people pressure people to write their own engines. Much the opposite, actually.
* What kind of negative rep are you referring to?
* Some of us do what we do for more than money.
* Maybe you're an "indie game designer." Not all of us are "indie game designers."
* Steam is not a company. Valve is a the company.
* Valve doesn't care if you put a 2D game on Steam. I don't know where you got that.

Are you sure you should be advising people of anything?
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Can you add a link in regards to Valve not allowing the Steam Engine to have 2D games anymore?
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Well to say udk would not be good for a RPG, that is 100% wrong. Since I am making a full online action rpg game with the UDK engine. The only limitation to the engine is your programming level. The only reason why it gets the title and reputation for making a FPS game, is because it gives you the code for UT3. Which none of that code I am using. But I just came on here to give my two sense on the matter, so people dont wrong information about UDK.
[url="http://www.sigmaxstudios.com"]www.sigmaxstudios.com[/url]

that's my website with information on the game I am making called Apprentice. Let me know if I can answer any qustions about Apprentice or UDK for you.

Have a good one!


[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rnvOiZnvT84/TY2ciEiSvnI/AAAAAAAAAH8/PPN0eHf2oRQ/s800/Apprentice%252520-%252520Four%252520new%252520in-game%252520screen%252520shots%252521.png[/img]



-
Phara0h
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The time it takes me to fix a bug or update something in my codebase at work (an EA funded videogame company), is about 20-150x more work than if I work in my own engine which I already know in and out, and is designed in a specific way, and gets the same results with way less code.

And of course people just learn stuff to learn stuff. Nobody goes "I want to learn to code, let me just use someone else's code and I won't need to type a single line of code."
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[quote name='dpadam450' timestamp='1308002637' post='4822947']
The time it takes me to fix a bug or update something in my codebase at work (an EA funded videogame company), is about 20-150x more work than if I work in my own engine which I already know in and out, and is designed in a specific way, and gets the same results with way less code.

And of course people just learn stuff to learn stuff. Nobody goes "I want to learn to code, let me just use someone else's code and I won't need to type a single line of code."
[/quote]


I half agree with you. I agree that no one wants to write code. (well besides us coders anyways :P ) but if there is a bug in your game, regardless if its your engine or some one else's engine (like UDK) then you should be well knowledge in any engine your working with. Either that be your own, or some one else's engine. The reason why I dont write my own, is because why should I? If I were to make my own it would almost be the exact same thing as udk, but a lot worse do to the fact I am the only developer. If I had a team of like 100 developers, yea sure I guess I would make my own to shed off a few milliseconds of cpu time and not have to pay epic for there engine.

I would have to say, most people that try to use UDK or the unreal engine are mostly people that have no idea how to code and want to make a AAA game. Most of those people fail do to the fact they do not know how to code, and they will just try to make a fps and call it there own. When in all reality its just UT3 running there models with some simple kismet scrips to change it around a bit.
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[quote name='dpadam450' timestamp='1308002637' post='4822947']The time it takes me to fix a bug or update something in my codebase at work (an EA funded videogame company), is about 20-150x more work than if I work in my own engine which I already know in and out, and is designed in a specific way, and gets the same results with way less code.[/quote]So: working with a good engine is better than working with a crappy engine?
ok
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ok i never said that UDK wasnt good for RPG's cause im pretty sure i said this

"[color=#1C2837][size=2]UDK is a great example of a engine to use for FPS like games,im not to sure about it going into a RPG, but it would be time consuming."[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]time consuming coding wise...[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]now to the guy that was all anal about the correction from steam to valve is extremely dumb to nitpick at what im saying.Its like being a grammar nazi its just a sad thing to do...I do have in my right to speak my opinion and i find those that make they're own engines are wasting times.But i did not say its wrong for them to make a engine.Just a waste of time when they could be using the UDK or Unity or whatever else engine thats out there.By the time they finish a engine on pair to unity or even the UDK they could of made more then 1 game and have had hired people to help him finish the engine or just buy the engine in itself and then build from that engine.As for the link to the valve thing i will let my friend come on here and link you since he saved the wonderful link.Have a fit idc but i dont have the link currently since i dont make it my day by filling my bookmarks with steam news.[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2](If you wanna be anal about it valve)[/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[/size][/color]
[color="#1c2837"][size="2"]Also i have been on here for awhile now and ive seen people advise beginners to just design they're own engine or game in C++ which makes me double face palm my face.I find it distasteful that you would tell a noob to jump on such a project of that magnitude.And by you i mean some of the gamedev people. [/size][/color]
[color=#1C2837][size=2]
[/size][/color]
-4

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[quote name='RedPin' timestamp='1308027238' post='4823046']
Scaleform+unrealscript+kismet = RPG.
[/quote]

kismet is not needed, thats for people that dont know how to code. Or people who want a non module game.
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I still call kismet events and functions. I code in ASM, C#, Java, UCC, C++, and Python and I still use Kismet for controlling events and functions such as lighting change triggers, some event handle triggers for game mode conditions, and some music triggers. The funny part is, Kismet is there to help you prototype faster, and if you say its not needed well then congratulations. You just like doing everything the longer way don't you? :D No flame intended, don't want this to turn into a noob flaming war.
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ok well ill repeat what ive said about the steam thing i dont save everything they update on, my friend linked it to me once read it and tossed it.I dont save these things cause i dont find it useful.I wouldnt make such a thing up i wouldnt gain anything from it and i really dont care if people want to design 2D games that look worse then a ping pong game made straight from C++...Im not trying to be rude and if you are saying your new here you do realize that alot of things get deleted and tossed around in this forum.I wont be linking anyone or anything you will soon see the sadness i have seen.I can easily also say that gamedev is the sure place to go if you wanna get encouraged to make a 2D game instead of a 3D game.Ive seen these people post on these forums and it makes me sad to see such a waste who knows if they're stuff could be the next big thing but they rather waste it on making they're own engine.

asking for links will get you no where cause i will not just simply go through everything to prove what ive said.I have no reason to lie at all and i dont really care if people think i am.I dont lose any sleep at all.
-7

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GDNet is the place to come to be told quite bluntly that you're not qualified to be wasting your time making an engine and that you should just make a game...

[url="http://dragonmaw.tumblr.com/post/4273836091/indie-game-developer-meme"]Cool story, bro[/url]?
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to me it just seems like you guys want to get attention and just flame me for making the point that those that advise others to design a engine or choose to work on a engine.If thats trolling then sure ok haha,btw please stay ontopic your responses just seems like you wanna be cool and make me seem like a jackA$#.But in truth what you say does not phase me,not in the slightest.Get ontopic or get out,or just let the thread die.

Avert your eyes if you dont like what i gotta say or negative rep me haha i dont care.
-4

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I am having a lot of trouble understanding what you're saying.

Making an engine is extremely complicated, yes. But most of the time, I haven't seen people being told to write their own engine. Usually they are designed to be versatile, therefore there typically really is no point to write a new one unless it's a simple game that isn't doing much in the way of complex rendering, like, say, using polygons. The likelihood of someone who is new to game design making the next great thing is very unlikely, I mean realistically we can just go ahead can ignore that whole argument. And even so, it's not like they can't come back to it in a few months or so once they have the basics down. And that being said, if anyone actually DID tell them to write their own engine, we can probably safely write them off as morons, because there is no way someone that is new enough to game design to be asking for help on how to get started is going to be able to program an engine.

I also couldn't find anything about someone told to write their own engine either. So... way to be awesome. The only thing more awesome is a possum (because it rhymes.... awesome possum?)

AND I would like to point out no one said C4 yet. Just to throw my own opinion into the engines list...
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