I know what most of you are thinking, "They will exploit the hell out of this" but i have a system that will allow users to create quests for a mmo, while still having a negative and positive side to them.
First off,
Make the quest giver suffer a little. Make any reward they put up for the quest come from them. INCLUDING XP and MONEY. YOU can have a level capped endgame guy who puts out a quest for a massive amount of XP, but if 30 or 40 people do his quest, he will possibly lose a few levels, and even all of his money. This is a cure for exploiters who will weasel their way into creating quests for their alts that will boost them to level XXX in no time. But you also must see that the XP that a level, lets say 60, might accumulate in one level can easily level a newbie to level 20+ in a mere quest, which brings me to my next point....
MAKE THEM LEVEL ORIENTED. Anarchy Online does a great job of this with their teaming levels and pvp levels. You wont get xp if your level is outside a specific threshold of the highest level. Make it so that the quest is only available to a level similar to that of the quest giver. This will pose problems at lower levels, which i propose my next system to help them.
Gathering Quests. The biggest use of player missions in EVE Online, is the ease of offering a big reward for bringing your junk 30 jumps away from where you want them to be. I propose a game that is Wow'esque, could use this system in order for quest givers to gain rewards in exchange for their XP. Let's say our player "Leetzor" is a level 15 newbie who just learned how to make a new weapon through crafting, but he finds getting the materials is time consuming. He can place a quest (repeatable X number of times) to get his materials. Of course he would offer an award in order to get potential buyers. So he makes the reward one of his new weapons, but the quest requires them to bring him back enough to make two weapons. This will let him make use of this system at lower levels, but still please both parties.
Of course you would have a level 50 offering 5 levels of XP to his friends that are level 45 in exchange for nearly nothing at all. Which calls my balancing system into play.
The reward must be "proportional" to the service. Using some sort of algorithm to determine how much xp this or that item went for in previous quests. And the first quests being created will of course use a baseline that the developer will set. Id say a threshold of about 10% of the average price seems fair enough. With a small community base though, this could easily triple the reward threshold if a handful of people move it up to 10% above the average several times. A flaw i am still working on....
More to come later!
User Created Quests
From what you’ve written it doesn’t sound like you are not really talking about quests but rather paying other users to do tasks for you. Get me 100 steal and I’ll give you a sharp sword +1. Which sounds more like something that should be managed as part of market trading system rather then a quest system.
To my mind user created quests should involve using a quest building engine to create challenges for other users to attempt. The game it self would determine the reward based on a number of factors which are used to generate “reward points” the quest creator then allocates those reward points towards the rewards for completing the quest. So I might create a quest set in the noob dungeon but this time filled with level 10 undead monsters and the restriction that it must be solo run only, armed with only level 1 gear, and be completed in less than 10 minutes. Which is worth 2500 reward points which I then allocate to the rewards of 1000 exp and a superior level 15 class weapon.
Once I’ve created that quest any player can attempt it, rate it, and be ranked in that quests leader board.
To my mind user created quests should involve using a quest building engine to create challenges for other users to attempt. The game it self would determine the reward based on a number of factors which are used to generate “reward points” the quest creator then allocates those reward points towards the rewards for completing the quest. So I might create a quest set in the noob dungeon but this time filled with level 10 undead monsters and the restriction that it must be solo run only, armed with only level 1 gear, and be completed in less than 10 minutes. Which is worth 2500 reward points which I then allocate to the rewards of 1000 exp and a superior level 15 class weapon.
Once I’ve created that quest any player can attempt it, rate it, and be ranked in that quests leader board.
The only way that I imagine this working as quests (rather than errands) is if players, in the course of the game, do things that produce quest-able features.
Take EvE as an example. They have the whole sovreignty bit now, where players can form corporations, claim sectors by building things there, and control the resources of those sectors. This produces incentive for corporations to fight amongst themselves, utilizing spies, coordinated assaults, and the development of a war machine capable of conflict at that scale. These alone keep players busy item hunting, crafting, and developing new skills. There is also subterfuge at other levels, like attacking a corp's resource gathering operations or destroying or stealing valuable cargo, or even almost meta-game behavior, like infiltrating an enemy organization and stealing.
There are definitely things that could improve the quest-ness nature of these interactions, but they run the risk of breaking the game. There are no resources uniquely worth controlling, as all corps have access to the same things and in the same ways. The only real benefit is amassing a large number of resources, to conduct the same activities on a larger scale and occaisionally open up a new possibility. Producing unique opportunities would unbalance things one way or another.
Maybe EvE is an odd example, since exp is different than in other games. But regardless, putting up a want ad for someone to do your menial work (even if that work consists of the same activities as an actual quest) doesn't carry much interest for me regardless of game. This is the hardest part to fix, because developer-defined quests carry at least the illusion of relevance to the game world while players themselves are generally irrelevant in that regard. So without the ability to manipulate the game environment, players will be stuck doing unimportant and inconvenient things for other unimportant players.
Take EvE as an example. They have the whole sovreignty bit now, where players can form corporations, claim sectors by building things there, and control the resources of those sectors. This produces incentive for corporations to fight amongst themselves, utilizing spies, coordinated assaults, and the development of a war machine capable of conflict at that scale. These alone keep players busy item hunting, crafting, and developing new skills. There is also subterfuge at other levels, like attacking a corp's resource gathering operations or destroying or stealing valuable cargo, or even almost meta-game behavior, like infiltrating an enemy organization and stealing.
There are definitely things that could improve the quest-ness nature of these interactions, but they run the risk of breaking the game. There are no resources uniquely worth controlling, as all corps have access to the same things and in the same ways. The only real benefit is amassing a large number of resources, to conduct the same activities on a larger scale and occaisionally open up a new possibility. Producing unique opportunities would unbalance things one way or another.
Maybe EvE is an odd example, since exp is different than in other games. But regardless, putting up a want ad for someone to do your menial work (even if that work consists of the same activities as an actual quest) doesn't carry much interest for me regardless of game. This is the hardest part to fix, because developer-defined quests carry at least the illusion of relevance to the game world while players themselves are generally irrelevant in that regard. So without the ability to manipulate the game environment, players will be stuck doing unimportant and inconvenient things for other unimportant players.
Author
Wrote this while i was tired in the morning, but the whole point of the system is to keep XP balanced throughout user created quests. A quest builder is irrelevant in this scenario, but i'm giving examples. Of course the game might have a dungeon maker and all that jazz for quests, but the biggest point of this system is to prevent players from exploiting the system. Of course it is all up to the code to do this, but lets say the person who wanted to use this system wants a quest builder. You could choose the monsters to kill and what to do and all that, and if someone grabs the quest, the quest maker will have to pay for any XP they offer as an award, whether this means de-leveling because you didnt do your math right is up to you.
Errands are the foundation for most mmorpg quests (which is a shame). Kill X amounts of mobs, Loot XX amount of XXXXXXX and return to XXXXXX. So in spirit of that i gave the example(s) in that context. While a player might want to make a quest like "Defend out Castle from opposing siege and get X money and X experience." But that would be a game specific attribute.
This system is purely created to make player quests completely unique and versatile. Perhaps make a second currency (much like Battlepoints) for giving quests. Maybe a level 50 wants gear, so he sacrifices some XP for it.
OR perhaps when you make a quest you need to earn all the XP for it before it can go live. (10xp reward, 30 repetitions, 300xp you have to collect before it goes live) This would also prevent exploiting as an untrustworthy player wouldnt want to have to gain all the XP to simply give to another player. Of course this would allow someone to grind a ton of XP for a friend and let them do the quest to level to XX quickly, but that is still balanced, more of a XP transfer. Of course you would have to work out an algorithm or equation of sorts to determine how much XP would be allowed. Perhaps even have a "bag" you can put attached to the quest and for each quest taker who completes it, they will get a random item from the bag.
Just some thoughts as i play Rift
Errands are the foundation for most mmorpg quests (which is a shame). Kill X amounts of mobs, Loot XX amount of XXXXXXX and return to XXXXXX. So in spirit of that i gave the example(s) in that context. While a player might want to make a quest like "Defend out Castle from opposing siege and get X money and X experience." But that would be a game specific attribute.
This system is purely created to make player quests completely unique and versatile. Perhaps make a second currency (much like Battlepoints) for giving quests. Maybe a level 50 wants gear, so he sacrifices some XP for it.
OR perhaps when you make a quest you need to earn all the XP for it before it can go live. (10xp reward, 30 repetitions, 300xp you have to collect before it goes live) This would also prevent exploiting as an untrustworthy player wouldnt want to have to gain all the XP to simply give to another player. Of course this would allow someone to grind a ton of XP for a friend and let them do the quest to level to XX quickly, but that is still balanced, more of a XP transfer. Of course you would have to work out an algorithm or equation of sorts to determine how much XP would be allowed. Perhaps even have a "bag" you can put attached to the quest and for each quest taker who completes it, they will get a random item from the bag.
Just some thoughts as i play Rift
Had the same idea too must confess. You really took it to the next lvl though. I believe it has potential but maybe if put in the "right" environment. I think player created quests could apply better in an RP server (RP-pvp etc speaking of WoW). Roleplaying a character or leading an RP guild as a guildmaster will put those quests to follow the character's and guild's scenario line! People will respect, embrace and follow them better as Roleplayers.
Unfortunately we people luck the education or better yet, the maturity and control over our senses when entering and experiencing a MMRPG. The urge to "show off as the best in show as fast as I can" overcomes aesthetics in creating beautiful quests. Hope for progress on this! I believe it's a very good idea that can take on-line mass multiplayer to the next lvl! Good thinking!
P.S please excuse my English. I learned by watching movies and playing video games. Thank you.
Unfortunately we people luck the education or better yet, the maturity and control over our senses when entering and experiencing a MMRPG. The urge to "show off as the best in show as fast as I can" overcomes aesthetics in creating beautiful quests. Hope for progress on this! I believe it's a very good idea that can take on-line mass multiplayer to the next lvl! Good thinking!
P.S please excuse my English. I learned by watching movies and playing video games. Thank you.
I second what Jimakoma said. It would work, but only with the right playerbase. The MMO in question would then need a really strong RPG element, story and backbone to allow players to actually generate interesting quests. Giving loads of junk items that you can do stuff with (like collect bones, grind them and use in some kind of ritual to summon a demon) would be the way to go.
I am concerned about the whole reward thing - EXP is a rather personal thing and we usually sweat A LOT to gain it. Remember how harsh is the penalty of loosing your EXP upon death? You do not want to use a mechanic that has roots in a penalty to reward others. Time spent playing the game would not translate into giving another person a cool, RP quest. Not in my dictionary at least. The better idea is with those reward tokens -- players would feel more compelled to create quests if it didn't cost them much. Making a shop that accepts only reward tokens (like WoW honour shops) wouldn't be that much effort, apart from ballancing the prices.
I am concerned about the whole reward thing - EXP is a rather personal thing and we usually sweat A LOT to gain it. Remember how harsh is the penalty of loosing your EXP upon death? You do not want to use a mechanic that has roots in a penalty to reward others. Time spent playing the game would not translate into giving another person a cool, RP quest. Not in my dictionary at least. The better idea is with those reward tokens -- players would feel more compelled to create quests if it didn't cost them much. Making a shop that accepts only reward tokens (like WoW honour shops) wouldn't be that much effort, apart from ballancing the prices.
Question 1: How are the quests sorted and distributed? Or to put it in another way, is there anything which is stopping me from creating a slew of frivolous quests where I ask for rubbish items and give out 1 xp/1 gold?
I could put up several thousands of those frivolous quests just to clog the systems if I have max level and an abundance of exp to spare.
Question 2a: With regards to fetching quests, doesn't that mean that maxed-level players gets items for free? They have a large amount of EXP to spare, and could basically "buy" everything with their EXP. In turn that would mean they could horde alot of gold since they won't need to spend it as much.
I would assume that most of those "fetch quest" involves raw materials rather than completed/crafter items. If crafting leads to the best items in game, I could spend all my extra EXP buying the raw materials to craft the high-end stuff and then sell it to players for gold. Reversely, if the "fetch quests" allow players to submit complete/crafted items, I could still use my EXP to buy high-end items or get a large discount with my EXP. Where does the gold come into play then? The economy system would be effed up by "EXP Purchases". (Possibly replacing gold as the main currency maybe?)
Question 2b: What good is gold in this system?
The first scenario is the high-end/endgame players. All the best items in any MMO is either dropped by monsters, or crafted by players. For crafting purposes, they would need raw materials. These materials are usually located in the lower-level maps, where all newbies will pass through in their levelling, and they will naturally farm these materials to sell to the high-end crafters. I'd think that high-end players would rather spend EXP rather than gold to buy these items. Players levelling would like to reach max level ASAP, and I do think that they would prefer to complete their grind to max level quickly to do the fun high-end stuff faster. That means gold will only circulate in the higher echelon with regards to high-end items trading.
The second scenario is the low-level-newbie-crafter. They are the one who would actually offer gold as reward since they themselves would need to keep their EXP. However, their gold offer cannot match the EXP reward because they are short on gold themselves to begin with, and the EXP reward would undoubtedly be much more favourable for a newbie.
Note: I think I missed something important in that wall of text. I'll come back to it when I see it.
I could put up several thousands of those frivolous quests just to clog the systems if I have max level and an abundance of exp to spare.
Question 2a: With regards to fetching quests, doesn't that mean that maxed-level players gets items for free? They have a large amount of EXP to spare, and could basically "buy" everything with their EXP. In turn that would mean they could horde alot of gold since they won't need to spend it as much.
I would assume that most of those "fetch quest" involves raw materials rather than completed/crafter items. If crafting leads to the best items in game, I could spend all my extra EXP buying the raw materials to craft the high-end stuff and then sell it to players for gold. Reversely, if the "fetch quests" allow players to submit complete/crafted items, I could still use my EXP to buy high-end items or get a large discount with my EXP. Where does the gold come into play then? The economy system would be effed up by "EXP Purchases". (Possibly replacing gold as the main currency maybe?)
Question 2b: What good is gold in this system?
The first scenario is the high-end/endgame players. All the best items in any MMO is either dropped by monsters, or crafted by players. For crafting purposes, they would need raw materials. These materials are usually located in the lower-level maps, where all newbies will pass through in their levelling, and they will naturally farm these materials to sell to the high-end crafters. I'd think that high-end players would rather spend EXP rather than gold to buy these items. Players levelling would like to reach max level ASAP, and I do think that they would prefer to complete their grind to max level quickly to do the fun high-end stuff faster. That means gold will only circulate in the higher echelon with regards to high-end items trading.
The second scenario is the low-level-newbie-crafter. They are the one who would actually offer gold as reward since they themselves would need to keep their EXP. However, their gold offer cannot match the EXP reward because they are short on gold themselves to begin with, and the EXP reward would undoubtedly be much more favourable for a newbie.
Note: I think I missed something important in that wall of text. I'll come back to it when I see it.
To be honest, what you're proposing isn't a quest at all, its a reverse auction. And its not all that different from the auction houses found in current MMOs, it only adds one extra layer to it. For instance, if I see that Eagle Feathers are selling for 1 gold each (and its a lot of money in that particular game), I'll go and farm Eagles and sell them on the AH. In your system, some guy puts up an Item Wanted ad for Eagle Feathers paying 1g each, which I then accept, farm Eagles, and turn in the feathers for my reward.
The only difference you are proposing is to allow XP to be used as an alternate (or complementary) form of currency. This has merit, but like you said, it can easily be exploited. Plus, at as a level-capped player, a single quest that you do might net you 20,000 or more XP, while for beginners, 20k XP will propel you through a dozen levels or more. That takes pretty much all of the 'suffering', as you put it, out of the equation. Your proposed solution is no better. Players who are within 5 levels of hitting the level-cap most likely have better things to do than to run to a beginning area to farm Eagle Feathers for you.
If you made a system to allow players to introduce actual quests I think a lot of people would be on board. But, that's a lot of overhead for one little feature.
The only difference you are proposing is to allow XP to be used as an alternate (or complementary) form of currency. This has merit, but like you said, it can easily be exploited. Plus, at as a level-capped player, a single quest that you do might net you 20,000 or more XP, while for beginners, 20k XP will propel you through a dozen levels or more. That takes pretty much all of the 'suffering', as you put it, out of the equation. Your proposed solution is no better. Players who are within 5 levels of hitting the level-cap most likely have better things to do than to run to a beginning area to farm Eagle Feathers for you.
If you made a system to allow players to introduce actual quests I think a lot of people would be on board. But, that's a lot of overhead for one little feature.
I don't think it would work in a wow-ish type game. There's just too few things you could have the quest be. If you could add some story to it, maybe items that only drop in a certain area (that only people on the quest could have) or place items (chests say that only people on the quest can see) then it could be interesting.
On some more interesting games where there are more interesting things to do then quests could be far mroe interesting. I'm thinking more open games liek Eve/Darkfall, you could have quests to kill certain people (bounty), take towns/stations. I suppose they wouldn't really be repeatably then.
The hardest part of all this is the rewards while avoiding exploitation.
On some more interesting games where there are more interesting things to do then quests could be far mroe interesting. I'm thinking more open games liek Eve/Darkfall, you could have quests to kill certain people (bounty), take towns/stations. I suppose they wouldn't really be repeatably then.
The hardest part of all this is the rewards while avoiding exploitation.
How about giving the users the tools they need to make levels, and set the value to other users based on what the level contains?
Basically stealing ideas from Pen and Paper gaming. Every element that is added to the level adds to the challenge rating for it. Then you base the prizes off the challenge rating.
Now of course you have to include some safeguards against people putting 20 max level dragons in the level, and then just providing a 10 foot hallway from the front door to the uber treasure. The challenge rating only counts if the path through the level MUST go through it. If a path through a level branches then it would take the value of the lesser path.
However this also allows you to offer varied designs and challenges so a level can be suited to a number of different play styles. Have 20 Big Bad Guys standing around in a barracks room that is annoyingly between the start and the loot? Your super fighter types might be able to kick ass and blow through it. However what about the lowly weakling specialists like thief/wizard types? Then you can keep them entertained by providing a path around the big bad guys that contains some different challenges to overcome.
It doesn't have to cost your users anything for each party that blows through, only some cost to setup and keep the attraction open.
To keep things fair the levels can start off with a exp/loot value lower than their challenge rating would normally warrant, and then have this value upped if the player is willing to pay the extra for formal review. If the review board looks at the level and agrees that there are no major design loopholes that were added to allow players to exploit the loot/experience system, then the pay out can be bumped up.
You could even throw in some automated systems for this. If a party fails the level, then a little bit of 'bonus' is added. Each different party failing adds to the bonus, but if someone completes it then they take a huge chuck out of the bonus pie.
Maybe include some pay back system for the user who designed the level. People can vote, or leave tips or some other mechanic, and the popular ones get prizes/payback. Encourage your users to build and expand the world for you.
Basically stealing ideas from Pen and Paper gaming. Every element that is added to the level adds to the challenge rating for it. Then you base the prizes off the challenge rating.
Now of course you have to include some safeguards against people putting 20 max level dragons in the level, and then just providing a 10 foot hallway from the front door to the uber treasure. The challenge rating only counts if the path through the level MUST go through it. If a path through a level branches then it would take the value of the lesser path.
However this also allows you to offer varied designs and challenges so a level can be suited to a number of different play styles. Have 20 Big Bad Guys standing around in a barracks room that is annoyingly between the start and the loot? Your super fighter types might be able to kick ass and blow through it. However what about the lowly weakling specialists like thief/wizard types? Then you can keep them entertained by providing a path around the big bad guys that contains some different challenges to overcome.
It doesn't have to cost your users anything for each party that blows through, only some cost to setup and keep the attraction open.
To keep things fair the levels can start off with a exp/loot value lower than their challenge rating would normally warrant, and then have this value upped if the player is willing to pay the extra for formal review. If the review board looks at the level and agrees that there are no major design loopholes that were added to allow players to exploit the loot/experience system, then the pay out can be bumped up.
You could even throw in some automated systems for this. If a party fails the level, then a little bit of 'bonus' is added. Each different party failing adds to the bonus, but if someone completes it then they take a huge chuck out of the bonus pie.
Maybe include some pay back system for the user who designed the level. People can vote, or leave tips or some other mechanic, and the popular ones get prizes/payback. Encourage your users to build and expand the world for you.
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