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ageshero

A Newbie, A Vision, No budget.

68 posts in this topic

I skimmed over this thread and the OP sounds more like a creative/artistic/content creator type than a developer/programmer type. If you are intending to make a game on the scale of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (CT had about 40 people on its development team), you're going to need additional help anyway. You won't live long enough to complete a project like this entirely on your own. :blink:


So why not stop worrying about programming and the technical side, and instead really focus on your ability to create artwork and game content instead? In my years of experience in RPG development, its been much harder to find people to create content than it has to been to find people to write decent code. In fact with the current state of my project, I'm actually having to change my roll from programmer to artist because there's no one around to really create those assets that we need. My project is a free and open-source one though, so that may change the playing field a bit.


Anyway, if you are a good artist (or have the capacity to become a good artist) and enjoy doing that, then do that. Create a small number of tilesheets and sprites that could go into your game. Once you have that, then you can look around for help on the programming side and show that you've done a significant amount of work by yourself already, instantly granting you credibility. It sounds like you'd be more happy creating art instead of writing code anyway, so I think its a win both ways.
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[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1308928672' post='4827267']
He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.
[/quote]

I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!
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[quote name='DogmaDZ' timestamp='1308942378' post='4827320']
[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1308928672' post='4827267']
He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.
[/quote]

I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!
[/quote]

I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.
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[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1308945460' post='4827343']
I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.
[/quote]

Then we agree :)
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[quote name='DogmaDZ' timestamp='1308950772' post='4827364']
[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1308945460' post='4827343']
I see what youre saying, but whether he "Considers" 3d games or not, that should not be what he attempts as his first efforts. Im sure you would agree that a new game programmer should not attempt a 3d rpg in UDK as their first project! All I said was to learn a simple 2d framework/engine as opposed to using UDK, which to me makes absolutely no sense at all.
[/quote]

Then we agree :)
[/quote]

Perfect :) Lol I feel like theres a lot more of us discussing things than the OP actually posting in here. Good chat though lol.
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[quote name='DarklyDreaming' timestamp='1308891123' post='4827116']
Using UDK for remaking FF I-VII, Chrono Trigger, Braid or any similar kind of game would be like... using a nuke to clear away rubble. It achieves the intended effect... only that you need to use the most assbackwards, stupid, messy and ultimately mind-jarringly idiotic way of going about a relatively simple and easy task.

Look, simplest tool for the job wins out everyday - whether the job is learning a specific task or making something. In this case, making a 2D game of [i]any[/i] complexity should be relatively straightforward - either go with something like Game Maker or stick with any number of assorted programming languages and whatever library flavor of your choice. Just stop the nonsense about UDK - unless your aiming for 3D it's mindbogglingly stupid to create such a (relatively) simple presentation that can be achieved in an uncomplicated way with an [i]immensely[/i] complicated tool!

UDK, and by extension Unreal Engine 3, can be used for a wide variety of game styles and is well suited in most genres. 2D retro style is one of the few it's not suited for. Why do you think it would be 'creative' to create a retro style epic in such a way? The player won't care...
[/quote]

Perfectly explained, lol. Thanks.
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I just want to respond quickly to two things. First, no, innovation is not required to have success on the indie market. There are enough examples out there of companies that don't need any "gimmick" for lack of a better word to be successful. The innovative, or art-like indie games simply draw a lot more attention from us game programmers, but there really is a big market out there for non-innovative games. There are many indies who make games that are not driven by innovative gameplay, but by strong storytelling or by targetting a specific niche market. These indies have been around for years. They might not be millionairs, but they are making a living. And yes, you can even make a living making 2D RPG games in RPG maker as long as you can reach the right group of people.

Although I completely agree that for him to use UDK is a bad, bad idea, I don't think that using UDK for such a game is a bad idea. Mainly because you get access to a very strong visual pipeline that could create a very fancy looking 2D/3D game, and that could draw some unique attention. But yeah, UDK is not a place for a beginner unless it is basically a simple FPS mod. Ok, now I need to give an example because more people are saying it is a bad idea:

[url="http://mildlydisconcerting.com/drillboid/"]http://mildlydisconc....com/drillboid/[/url]

Here, this game is created with unity, but the same principles.
[/quote]


Alright ill take the innovation advice to mind and heart, normally for me, i find that innovation can come more from the way of thinking about the game as you play it, rather then some tacky way of actually physically playing the game. Such as, A storyline thats better than most Indies, or Character development, or charm that draws you in. Without those things, in the way that i play games at least, im less drawn in and fueled to actually play.

Games today seem to lack a really fantastical or good storyline that really connects with people, Few big titles i have seen have really done that for me... God of War was one of them. Halo kind of did it, Zelda Twilight princess was pretty okay. Dont get me wrong or anything, i dont mean to say their arent other s or anything, there's tons of course. But we have strayed so far from the charm and ideas of classic games that a good deal arent appealing to me any more at least.

Carbon copy FPS, I think The indygame community puts out more intriguing games, because they do things a little differently and try new things, while mainstream EA shovels shit into the hand of every gamer outside of select few titles.

__________________________________

I Love that little game you posted, the art style and animations and movements are totally fantastic looking.

__________________________________

And ill in the end learn game maker probably because that gets tossed around, i just dont want to take all the time learning and find out that this really wasnt what i wanted to do.
Im just looking for the right tools.

If Game maker can create a game identical to the game play, mechanics and so forth of games like Earthbound and Final fantasy( whether it be 1-7) Then its probably the system i want to use.

Also, something important i would like to know, Can Game maker pull off like a really neat "Puppet boss" Kind of thing, like the battles you would find in the Castlevania games or something alot like Gunstar super heroes.

I do like the 3d-2d idea, another thing to consider, i guess im in the process of finding out what i want and what i need to get it done, then ill hop onto the Learning curve, but im just interested in how much C++ or whatever that i actually need to learn to make something in the fashion of an rpg. (Im not going wow, as i said before, im not having all kinds of crazy numbers and damage dealing spells and that ridiculous stuff. im not a wow fan <_< Were branching off, IM BRANCHING OFF!!! lol anyways, I appreciate everyone help and comments about things.
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[quote name='Roots' timestamp='1308930204' post='4827277']
I skimmed over this thread and the OP sounds more like a creative/artistic/content creator type than a developer/programmer type. If you are intending to make a game on the scale of FFVI or Chrono Trigger (CT had about 40 people on its development team), you're going to need additional help anyway. You won't live long enough to complete a project like this entirely on your own. :blink:


So why not stop worrying about programming and the technical side, and instead really focus on your ability to create artwork and game content instead? In my years of experience in RPG development, its been much harder to find people to create content than it has to been to find people to write decent code. In fact with the current state of my project, I'm actually having to change my roll from programmer to artist because there's no one around to really create those assets that we need. My project is a free and open-source one though, so that may change the playing field a bit.


Anyway, if you are a good artist (or have the capacity to become a good artist) and enjoy doing that, then do that. Create a small number of tilesheets and sprites that could go into your game. Once you have that, then you can look around for help on the programming side and show that you've done a significant amount of work by yourself already, instantly granting you credibility. It sounds like you'd be more happy creating art instead of writing code anyway, so I think its a win both ways.
[/quote]


Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.
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[quote name='DogmaDZ' timestamp='1308942378' post='4827320']
[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1308928672' post='4827267']
He wants to use udk for an old ff style rpg. There is nothing about udk that lends itself to that application. Its the wrong tool... period. That game you posted is not at all an old ff type game, so it really doesn't show how udk is a good idea for him. Also I don't think it has anything to do with being a beginner... udk would be the wrong tool for anyone to use for this type of game. There are 2d game engines... for this exact purpose .. why would you use a 3d fps engine?

I know what you're saying.. and yes I can see how having the 3d capabilities could help in 2d development. But in this case... it just doesn't make a drop of sense.
[/quote]

I am not saying that he should create a purely 2D-retro RPG in UDK, but I am mainly saying that because he is a complete beginner..I think it is actually an interesting idea to do so, but of course not just by putting 2D flat images in 3D space.

If you read all his posts it shows that he has a general interest in old-school RPGs, but he also considers 3D rpgs like FF7. So yes, old-school, but he isn't purely limiting himself to 2D. The game I posted can be compared to something old school like super metroid. I just added it to show that you can have 2Dish graphics, but can use the 3D lighting and normal mapping to create interesting effects.

And UDK really isn't just a 3D fps engine, it is just easily used as such out of the box. But personally I can imagine a very cool looking 2D/3D ish retro RPG game created in UDK, something that will look much better than anything created in gamemaker. It is like Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2, they still have this old school 2D look to them, but are using some fancy 3D stuff to add to the looks. I can see the same working for retro RPGs, but maybe that is just me :). One game that crossed my mind was syndicate wars, how cool would it be to create a new syndicate wars in UDK! Would be so awesome!
[/quote]

I just love thinking bigger than normal, I mean, by useing UDK, you could make pixels out of cubes, and then color them acordingly to perfectly mimic your character in everyway with pixels, and then no smooth turns, but make him go left right and diagonal only right? So you have a character that actualy appears totally classic, and kind of is a fun way of thinking about pushing the system?

That or just go for a game of the same style as FF7 but everything, is seen drawing by the screen, wires drawn across buildings pass the view of the camera. and you have a really nice looking game with special effects. you can even get that funky 3d world view like in the old FF games or secret of mana, when you exit a town and your walking to someplace else?
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[quote name='ageshero' timestamp='1308956530' post='4827386']you could make pixels out of cubes, and then [make] your character [from those] pixels, and then no smooth turns, but make him go left right and diagonal only right? So you have a character that actualy appears totally classic, and kind of is a fun way of thinking about pushing the system?[/quote]
Sure. But when you push things, come up with new ways of doing things, you get to figure out the details yourself (since not a lot of others have done what you're trying to do).
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I think it's terrible advice to work with RPGmaker unless it can deliver the end result you want.

You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.

If you want to make a fully 3D RPG then it's a lot of work and so is any RPG for that matter, but it's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills, and with 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.

No matter what your goals and budget are, just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine. Then look what will be needed.

Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game. Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter. The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.

But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere, the issue is not just lack of knowledge but you need to realize that very few of them are making games like what you are making (if they are actually making games at all). I happen to have made a game similar to what you want, though not released yet the software is done for some time now, and it's just completely different needs compared to what most people have experience doing (console or cell phone games).

So say you want to say make a Fallout 1 clone then you get a bunch of people suggesting you use an engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily not an old school RPG - graphics complexity hardly matters here, it's about how easy it is to work with data and create GUI that will make or break your project, not how easy it is to get art assets in (and honestly for any but simplest game this is just a nonissue - it it takes a month to import your assets (and no engine is that bad) then it's nothing compared to making a 5 year game, but a serious problem when making a one month game).

UDK has everything you need but they are not much better for GUI stuff than Unity, maybe worse. Plus the damned thing just isn't stable. If you had C++ support I'd say it's ok but that costs a lot of money

I ended up using my own engine, but it's probably not realistic to go from no programming experience to making your own engine to making your own game all in one go. Actually it's highly unrealistic to make a big RPG by yourself but it's not impossible to do so, it's just a lot of work.

So I'd try to find engine first (or maybe a couple engines you can try out) , get some C++ books, then get going. Yes you will make a lot of mistakes, especially as someone just learning to program, but you will start to see the issues of the problem at hand. If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it. This way at least you learn basics of how engines work, and even if you switch engines eventually the next time around you will be much smarter in selecting you tools because you know what to look for.

Eventually you will probably need some kind of team but a team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show. If you don't then there's no need for a team because they are a lot of work to communicate with and will just slow things down if you already have a task to do at hand. When you see how much work it is you will probably quit because it is years of work, but if you chip away at it long enough you will get done eventually, you just have to be patient and realize you won't be releasing anything new week, or next year, or maybe even 5 years from now.
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[quote name='ageshero' timestamp='1308955725' post='4827384']
Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.
[/quote]

You are most certainly welcome to work with us. Yes we need artists (we've never not needed them for as long as this project has been in existence). What's also nice is that, because we're a free project, we allow all of our artists, composers, etc. to retain full copyright over their work. The only thing you agree to is allowing us to use and distribute your content under a GPL license. So if, for example, you make a castle tileset for us (something we really need at the moment), when you're ready to move on to your own project you'll already have a castle tileset made and ready to use. :)


I use GIMP for my pixel art currently. Its not the greatest tool for pixel art, but it is free and it is very powerful. There are some other editors out there specific to pixel art, you just have to look around. Our top artist uses Photoshop exclusively, but I only stick with free and open source software, and I run Linux so its out of the picture for me anyway. Anyway I'm getting off topic so I'll send you a PM shortly with more information.
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[quote name='thatguyfromthething' timestamp='1308965576' post='4827427']
I think it's terrible advice to work with RPGmaker unless it can deliver the end result you want.

You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project. If you learn to make games that way, you will waste years and be no closer to making a real game.

If you want to make a fully 3D RPG then it's a lot of work and so is any RPG for that matter, but it's not really less work to make it in a 2D engine than 3D though probably doesn't require as much programming skills, and with 2D engine you probably need to program it yourself so you are making both a game and an engine.

No matter what your goals and budget are, just look for the tools you need first, in this case an engine. Then look what will be needed.

Realistically you can count on making an RPG in C++, though. You will probably fail utterly in any other method of development unless you have a very limited scope game. Most of the engines out there provide very poor support for any game but a shooter. The ability to make complicated data driven GUI just isn't there.

But this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. If you listen to most people here you will get nowhere, the issue is not just lack of knowledge but you need to realize that very few of them are making games like what you are making (if they are actually making games at all). I happen to have made a game similar to what you want, though not released yet the software is done for some time now, and it's just completely different needs compared to what most people have experience doing (console or cell phone games).

So say you want to say make a Fallout 1 clone then you get a bunch of people suggesting you use an engine like Unity that only really works with games that could be played on a cell phone easily not an old school RPG - graphics complexity hardly matters here, it's about how easy it is to work with data and create GUI that will make or break your project, not how easy it is to get art assets in (and honestly for any but simplest game this is just a nonissue - it it takes a month to import your assets (and no engine is that bad) then it's nothing compared to making a 5 year game, but a serious problem when making a one month game).

UDK has everything you need but they are not much better for GUI stuff than Unity, maybe worse. Plus the damned thing just isn't stable. If you had C++ support I'd say it's ok but that costs a lot of money

I ended up using my own engine, but it's probably not realistic to go from no programming experience to making your own engine to making your own game all in one go. Actually it's highly unrealistic to make a big RPG by yourself but it's not impossible to do so, it's just a lot of work.

So I'd try to find engine first (or maybe a couple engines you can try out) , get some C++ books, then get going. Yes you will make a lot of mistakes, especially as someone just learning to program, but you will start to see the issues of the problem at hand. If you start off making connect 4 or RPG maker you simply won't ever get started on your real project let alone complete it. This way at least you learn basics of how engines work, and even if you switch engines eventually the next time around you will be much smarter in selecting you tools because you know what to look for.

Eventually you will probably need some kind of team but a team is actually very easy to get together if you have anything to show. If you don't then there's no need for a team because they are a lot of work to communicate with and will just slow things down if you already have a task to do at hand. When you see how much work it is you will probably quit because it is years of work, but if you chip away at it long enough you will get done eventually, you just have to be patient and realize you won't be releasing anything new week, or next year, or maybe even 5 years from now.
[/quote]

Thanks so much for your advice, I do want to make a good length game, i take it for me on my side it would be like making a big playable comic book, you have to draw the grass, the mountains and the houses, and make all the pieces fit together, And like a novel, where you write a book. Im a big fan of serious story telling and plot twists, and that kind of stuff, in a quirky game that may become a cult classic with people with the same taste as me may go crazy for it.

I hate RPGmaker, lol, i liked it for the first few hours, "Hey this shit is kinda neat...." And then a few hours pass "Why cant i make a cutscene or overscreen dialogue WTF!!!"
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[quote name='Roots' timestamp='1308966430' post='4827431']
[quote name='ageshero' timestamp='1308955725' post='4827384']
Well, here's an idea, You are working on a game right? You say you find it hard to find an artist, If you aren't opposed, and still need an artist, Maybe i can find some starting experience in working for your project? I wouldn't really ask for pay, i think the fun of collaborating is good enough, Your choice man. But maybe its an interesting idea?

And your very right, i would be happy keeping to what i know how to do already. I dont know if MS PAINT is ideal for sprite making as it get more and more glitchy every time i use it, i found photoshop far more appeasing and some tutorials on how to make Sprites in it.
[/quote]

You are most certainly welcome to work with us. Yes we need artists (we've never not needed them for as long as this project has been in existence). What's also nice is that, because we're a free project, we allow all of our artists, composers, etc. to retain full copyright over their work. The only thing you agree to is allowing us to use and distribute your content under a GPL license. So if, for example, you make a castle tileset for us (something we really need at the moment), when you're ready to move on to your own project you'll already have a castle tileset made and ready to use. :)


I use GIMP for my pixel art currently. Its not the greatest tool for pixel art, but it is free and it is very powerful. There are some other editors out there specific to pixel art, you just have to look around. Our top artist uses Photoshop exclusively, but I only stick with free and open source software, and I run Linux so its out of the picture for me anyway. Anyway I'm getting off topic so I'll send you a PM shortly with more information.
[/quote]

Well, luckilly i have a totally legitimate copy of web premium cs4, so no legal trouble. I need the experience terribly, and i would certainly put my main Game on hold . and if i got some ideas and concept art of what your trying to make i probably could hop in if thats fine with you.

Im totally cool with making stuff that can be used by us as free use pictures etc. Im also a pretty musically inclined person, and i have a program called Sound Club, that allows midi composition, im still really new at it and im looking at it every so often and messing around on it.
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[quote name='Tom Sloper' timestamp='1308969416' post='4827443']
[quote name='thatguyfromthething' timestamp='1308965576' post='4827427']
1. You should not waste any time learning anything that won't be used for your project.
2. this place is full of incredibly terrible advice. [/quote]
1. That is incredibly terrible advice.
2. See #1.
[/quote]

Lmao...
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ima go on a random rant. lol.

For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.

But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.

They want a few head shots because that's all they care about...

So i say, If we want a good story in a game, what do we do? well the first thing i would do is ask yourself really tough questions. like Why the hell is this cool? what makes this cool, and why and how can this work.

Another example: Anime, 1st episode, no story, just a big fight scene and a few concepts that they are on another planet and there's some politics and bad guys. Nothing is connected, its unfinished. a story cant be about fighting aliens alone, there needs to be more substance than that.

Why are they fighting aliens, (we'll continue this plot) Because they threaten the existence of man! Okay, cool. Do they aliens look like stupid Unreal 3 style small headed large muscle idiot monsters? And why is that cool to have that in your game? are you joining the massive circle jerk of testosterone addicts in the world of Modern gaming? hell no you are not, get screwed. make an interesting alien.

What are your favorite stories? find that out and try to make your story better than they could. Starwars? Stick with the first 3 movies, and your better than George lucas, because the prequels stunk right?

The very fact that i am harshly crtitical of other things and analyze this, is why and how you create a good story, and find the faults and the good parts of a story.
______ Here is a short story i will write now.

"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."

Obviously this isnt an unheard of idea, but speculative fiction is incredibly interesting. I plan to use this in a revision of a particular story line of which non need be talked about. its only a base on how mankind refines itself and moves into a new era. In the past, pollution smogged the skies, and the only option was to maticulously gather every living things that we could find and store the dna and substance of those things in cloneing, and of course in that day, 2600 maybe, this was legitimate and possible. The smog now gone, and the story bassis is set. now it would be horribly boring depending on how you do it. to play a game.

Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?

Anyways, now were in a blade runner future, picture buzzing hover cars, gritty rusted massive building either being maintained by ant sized in perspective, human beings welding away with futuristic equipment to repair the buildings or build new ones, Lights like a whole wide city, scaling up the massive towering building. And all this is explained and is going on, and players are entitled, privileged in fact, to know the state of the world, the way of the universe in this storytelling. THEY NEED TO KNOW basically. I hate to get nazilike but you absolutely must be forced to see this. that the "scifi world" was in decay, and that its history is important to even concieving why this adventure is so great.

To see whats happening, how the world is working, and how the character fits in, i cant stand something that is to small scale, or simple. Because all stories have to break the line between good and evil. and bleed the colors into grey. They have to tell stories of characters who may have done bad things, or have had hard times, heroes and thieves, Poets and scoundrels.

Where are the stories that are this grand? who will make them? Who will write the engaging dialogue?

And the game producer of a higher up company says "Eh, we'll get bob to do it... he used to write for the high school paper right? yeah itll be fine, besides, its not like a story holds the game together or anything. lol..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA RIGHT GUYS!?"

SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.

To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.


(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
-4

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[quote name='ageshero' timestamp='1308988444' post='4827492']
ima go on a random rant. lol.

For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.

But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.

...

"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."

Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?

...

SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.

To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.

(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
[/quote]

I think almost any beginner starts out like this. Some story and vision that sounds awesome in your head, and this is what gets them started in game development. Your imagination is a good place to get your motivation, but to create a game you will need to add a lot of discipline, and you will need to compromise. An epic storyline like this one is of the scale of mass effect, and that needed quite a lot of people to complete. It might be doable in 2D, but it will take a lot of time with people working on it fulltime.

You say yourself that it is not entirely original. One of the ways I like to work is by putting constraints on myself to work with. So let me try and put some constraints on you :P. Try to figure out a story and gameplay that takes place in one location, for example a small mansion or maybe even in an interrogation room, or a hangar. Then try to work with only 5 characters in your entire story, and make it a story that can be completed within two hours.

Now, let me explain the constraints. It is the equivalent of a short film created by movie students. A 3D or 2D house can be created in a matter of days, maybe weeks. Creating 5 characters is also a matter of days to weeks. So what you have is a small playground to test your ideas in. You can also do tons of cool things in a small area with a limited number of actions. Let me give you some quick example of small storylines:

- A story in an asylum where it is unclear to the player if what is happening is really happening, truth and lie interconnect a lot.
- A story in a hounted mansion, where in the end you turn out to be the ghost instead of the things you think are ghosts.
- A story where burglars invade your house, and you need to try and save your family and escape the house.

You see, all these stories are small, but it allows for interesting gameplay to emerge and it can be very fun for players to play such stories. This might be an easier road to take, but I think many gamedevelopers (me included) have the tendency to try and create something epic and big.
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[quote name='DogmaDZ' timestamp='1308993244' post='4827505']
[quote name='ageshero' timestamp='1308988444' post='4827492']
ima go on a random rant. lol.

For me, game play is always important to hold in a standard, keep it comfortable. And what i really mean is to be sure it adds to the flow of the game rather than makes it convoluted or boring.

But truely in the end, the story is the most important part. if you have some crappy anime story, with no real conceivable plot then its going to fail miserably, Take a really bad anime for instance. no story, just lost of action does not intrigue anyone but little slimy troglodytes who cant conceive emotion or plot points, because its to complicated for them. Those same people probably crowd around terrible carbon copy FPS shooters.

...

"Mankind predictably wipes itself off planet earth, only to find home just around the globe out of the reach of the planets gravitational pull. Before the pollution could overtake the planet in a hideous smog, mankind used all its greatest minds and most admirable tactics to gather what was needed to survive decades in space around Earth. At this time space vessels and space stations were a normal thing, but there is no way that man would leave his home. So they terraformed the planet after vaporizing the atmosphere, and letting machines smooth the planet over. All the work of all the past, documented in files, samples, historical containment facilities. Earth would be beautiful again. But because of our habits, we must start again, and lose everything we had known. our children will know only the metal corridors of a sterile space station, and now moments away after years and years. The Planet is ready sustain life once again. Earth is habitable, and the cloning of it's children will repopulate it. Were making history."

Maybe if its about rebuilding the new earth? interesting concept for a RTS. But im much more of a hands on kind of action adventure person. so we move into something totally crazy, which it takes place thousands of years in the future. Where maybe history begins to repeat itself again with pollution, due to new fuel forms, i guess every so often we need a restart, yeah?

...

SO there, my rant. Game writes suck really bad very often. Am i the guy to help? maybe not, but i like to dream about stories and adventures, and of a world different than this, imagine imagine imagine.

To me, you have to be a dreamer to write, or at least give a picture of something beautiful and adventurous, which is needed in an rpg.

(P.s. not stealing my story example. i think its neat and it mine, lol. If you want it, get me to write for you.)
[/quote]

I think almost any beginner starts out like this. Some story and vision that sounds awesome in your head, and this is what gets them started in game development. Your imagination is a good place to get your motivation, but to create a game you will need to add a lot of discipline, and you will need to compromise. An epic storyline like this one is of the scale of mass effect, and that needed quite a lot of people to complete. It might be doable in 2D, but it will take a lot of time with people working on it fulltime.

You say yourself that it is not entirely original. One of the ways I like to work is by putting constraints on myself to work with. So let me try and put some constraints on you :P. Try to figure out a story and gameplay that takes place in one location, for example a small mansion or maybe even in an interrogation room, or a hangar. Then try to work with only 5 characters in your entire story, and make it a story that can be completed within two hours.

Now, let me explain the constraints. It is the equivalent of a short film created by movie students. A 3D or 2D house can be created in a matter of days, maybe weeks. Creating 5 characters is also a matter of days to weeks. So what you have is a small playground to test your ideas in. You can also do tons of cool things in a small area with a limited number of actions. Let me give you some quick example of small storylines:

- A story in an asylum where it is unclear to the player if what is happening is really happening, truth and lie interconnect a lot.
- A story in a hounted mansion, where in the end you turn out to be the ghost instead of the things you think are ghosts.
- A story where burglars invade your house, and you need to try and save your family and escape the house.

You see, all these stories are small, but it allows for interesting gameplay to emerge and it can be very fun for players to play such stories. This might be an easier road to take, but I think many gamedevelopers (me included) have the tendency to try and create something epic and big.
[/quote]


I hear Walt disney said, that if he didnt get someone to find fault in his project, He figured it wasn't good enough of a scale in his opinion, lol I am a huge scale kind of guy, Most of my comic stories are planned to connect. i have a lot of plans to write novels and connecting story plots. intertwining things. And yes of course, a story can be short and simple. But there's something about adding that extra depth, its as if your staring into a 3d painting as apposed to something more 2d.

I have some simple plots, and other game ideas, Just the rpg that i have been discussing has been the big dreamy Game only, concept that i had next to a few others.

I like to wrestle all the spectrums, all i need is the knowledge on where to get it, and the motivation to do it, and im sure i could be pretty patient. lol.
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A [b]console application[/b] is a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_program"]computer program[/url] designed to be used via a text-only computer interface, such as a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_terminal"]text terminal[/url], the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_line_interface"]command line interface[/url] of some [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system"]operating systems[/url] ...

[img]http://classes.bus.oregonstate.edu/ba371/lu/images/tictactoe_screen.gif[/img]

That's what all your games will look like while you're learning C/C++
[/quote]






pygame would be good for what he wants would it not i seen them all over the net like how he described written in python useing pygame . would not anyone agree with me on this statement?


google pygame rpg and you will get the pygame engine and some open source games if you look hard



and for the comment above mine srry but thats what every first time game looks like (my first game was tic tac to) because you need to learn simple programs like this to advance to bigger one (like the game he wants to make).

(no offence attended


p.s.it seems to me though he a writer and an "artist" and should realy look to see if he can get a programmer to help but i guess since good programmers ask for money and his no buget thing i say good luck.

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I don't know at what point something here will really stick out for the OP, or at what point all this will become INFORMATION OVERLOAD. What I do know is that there has been alot of good advice, and a bit of not so good advice, but this post seems more like a cry for reassurance, something that many, if not all of us, had before we started "making games" That is something everyone here CAN and SHOULD give you. With realism thrown in, of course, but here's the truth of the matter in game development:

1. EVERYONE here has a passion for games. Mostly, some stage and form of developing them. That being said, everything begins with...
1.a IDEAS IDEAS, PASSIONATE, EXCITED, IDEAS.
2. You have an idea and a desire to make a great game. The first step, which you probably have by this point, is start small to learn.
3. FIND YOUR NICHE. What about the games stimulates you? Do you have a desire to create beautiful things that will make a game (graphically) what it is? Does the art inspire you? Maybe you want to bring things to life. Programming is a safe bet if you do, because, for 2D games especially, there is art available, even just stock graphics, that can give you some gratification without hiring an artist.
4. Prepare for some form of burnout. This is important, because as you learn everything that goes into making a game, you will inevitably become overwhelmed with something at some point. This adheres to the Rome wasn't built in a day. Imagine if one man decided to build Rome himself... he might get as far as getting the tools and supplies, and even erecting a building before realizing... HOLY SH** I'M TRYING TO BUILD A CITY. You will learn about the process, and it can be very overstimulating, but with lots of experience, you will learn to pace yourself and prepare. Don't give up.
5. Yes, choose your tools wisely. I will not go into this here, there are many other posts on this, and it sounds like you have some idea anyway. I would say using Gamemaker or the like to prototype at least is a safe bet, because it provides quicker gratification than, say, C++ could afford you. That being said, I doff my cap to everyone who insists on learning things like C++ first and only, as I know a good many of those people who suceeded. :)
6. Yes, you can make a game by yourself. What kind and how big, I truly belive that is best left for you to decide by just doing it. You will quickly learn what your limitations are, much more quickly than for you to digest all the pages we here at Gamedev have written. :)

GOOD LUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!
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[quote name='MERKB' timestamp='1309062117' post='4827777']
I don't know at what point something here will really stick out for the OP, or at what point all this will become INFORMATION OVERLOAD. What I do know is that there has been alot of good advice, and a bit of not so good advice, but this post seems more like a cry for reassurance, something that many, if not all of us, had before we started "making games" That is something everyone here CAN and SHOULD give you. With realism thrown in, of course, but here's the truth of the matter in game development:

1. EVERYONE here has a passion for games. Mostly, some stage and form of developing them. That being said, everything begins with...
1.a IDEAS IDEAS, PASSIONATE, EXCITED, IDEAS.
2. You have an idea and a desire to make a great game. The first step, which you probably have by this point, is start small to learn.
3. FIND YOUR NICHE. What about the games stimulates you? Do you have a desire to create beautiful things that will make a game (graphically) what it is? Does the art inspire you? Maybe you want to bring things to life. Programming is a safe bet if you do, because, for 2D games especially, there is art available, even just stock graphics, that can give you some gratification without hiring an artist.
4. Prepare for some form of burnout. This is important, because as you learn everything that goes into making a game, you will inevitably become overwhelmed with something at some point. This adheres to the Rome wasn't built in a day. Imagine if one man decided to build Rome himself... he might get as far as getting the tools and supplies, and even erecting a building before realizing... HOLY SH** I'M TRYING TO BUILD A CITY. You will learn about the process, and it can be very overstimulating, but with lots of experience, you will learn to pace yourself and prepare. Don't give up.
5. Yes, choose your tools wisely. I will not go into this here, there are many other posts on this, and it sounds like you have some idea anyway. I would say using Gamemaker or the like to prototype at least is a safe bet, because it provides quicker gratification than, say, C++ could afford you. That being said, I doff my cap to everyone who insists on learning things like C++ first and only, as I know a good many of those people who suceeded. :)
6. Yes, you can make a game by yourself. What kind and how big, I truly belive that is best left for you to decide by just doing it. You will quickly learn what your limitations are, much more quickly than for you to digest all the pages we here at Gamedev have written. :)

GOOD LUCK WITH CAPITAL LETTERS!!!
[/quote]


Interesting for sure. thanks for the input and inspiration, though i may end up not programming as much as i would like to be alittle more dependent on my own skills.

Can anyone list some popular 2d games and what engines they were made with, if not their own.
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