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Designing a balanced, turn based RPG system?

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Okay, I've been trying to come up with a straight forward stat system from the ground up. Using theories on stat functions, this is the best I've come up with while trying to limit the number of individual stats to a handful.

==========================================
PLAYER STATS

LIFE: DEF You're classic run of the mills hp bar.

ENERGY: OFF All techniques run on energy.

PSI: OFF/DEF A bar that is used both offensively and defensively. Related to Accuracy, agility, and speed. If out, evasion/aiming are lessened. Basically represents your focus. Have you ever been able to hit something when your dizzy?




ATTACK: OFF Attack power.

DEFENSE: DEF Defense power.

SPECIAL: OFF/DEF Affects power ups{be it offensive or defensive} and healing moves.




ACC: OFF Mostly effects the ability to hit a target.

AGI: DEF The ability to dodge.

SPD: OFF/DEF Both an offensive and defensive stat. Determines if the attack reaches your opponent before theirs does. If both are equal in speed, then both either do damage calculation at the same time or the attacks subtract power from each other before reaching their target depending on the attack type.




Here is the format that techniques use.

OFFENSIVE TECHNIQUE

POW: Attack Power, multiplied off the attack stat and divided against the defense stat.

AIM: Multiplied of the accuracy stat and divided by the agility stat.

SPD: Multiplied off the speed stat.




DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUE

PRT: Protect. Multiplied off of defense.

PAR: Parry. Multiplied off the accuracy stat.

SPD: Multiplied off the speed stat.




SPECIAL TECHNIQUE

STR: Power of the special technique. Amount of power a stat up technique gives. For healing, the amount that is healed per tick.

DUR: Duration of the technique, the longer the better.

SPD: The speed in which the technique activates. The slower, the less costly, but also the more risky.


==================================

I think everything went well except for special techniques. I still need to work the stats to it out. Basically, I'm trying to keep the parallel of giving every stat the potential of evenly affecting the gameplay should the same amount of effort be invested in such stat. If a person relies on defense a lot in their strategy, it should give them an equal chance to win against somebody who relies on offense a lot. Special techniques will use player stats so that those who actually invested in their special, although lacking offense or defense, will be able to use gimmicks and unusual techniques to match orthodox strategies.

I'm doing this in order to better understand stats in games and hopefully to better be able to come up with a system that will be both fun and intelligent to work wtih. Is the belief in putting stats into parallels in order to make sure the game is balanced well founded?

Originally, it was parallels of two like HP- EN, OFF-DEF, ACC-AGI, but there were some stats that didn't seem to have parallels, so I decided to go with groups of three.{And in the process, create a third bar next to HP, and ENERGY named PSI.

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The way I see it, this would be a boring system if whatever you invest in, you have an equal chance of winning. If stat customization is important in your game, you need them to have a circular relationship. For example, Attack > Defense because damage grows faster than defense. Defense > Speed because it absorbs more attacks and reduces incoming DPS more than slower, more powerful attacks. Speed > Attack because it allows you to evade the strong attacks. Depending on where you invest your points, you will be better at countering some builds, but worse against others. Then, what you need is a combat system that allows any build to beat any other build as long as the good decisions are made. Players would rage if they always had 0% or 100% win rate against specific builds. Got to let player skill decide the outcome, not the stat build. Having a good stat build would help you, but not be the deciding factor.

Also, what you need is to define your combat system. Designing stats first will lead to problems because you will try to fit your combat system to the stats and that might not always work. For example, what if you want to create a distinction between healing and damage skills by having some characters good with heals and bad with damage skills? You can't with your current system and that might limit you down the road if you want that distinction. If you don't, then it's fine.

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I find your circular system to be interesting. It seems to be a good way to balance a game.

The system is meant for skill based combat. For example, how some games have stats that when skill is invested into, will make it easier to win over any other stat. For example, in some games, defense based builds trump both attack and speed based builds even when the game was intended to give all sides an equal chance. While other games, everybody will make builds with high attacks due to it being proven within the game's system to be "easier" to win with.

The system I'm trying to build, will allow any build an equal chance to win{and by that, I mean granted both players are equal in skill.} Basically, I want to make a game where two people using completely different builds will have an equal chance of winning if the players are equal in skill.

That is why all stats must be equal to each other so that both sides will be able to fight evenly. If any stat, when all are at equal value, acts more powerful than the others, then something is wrong. I witnessed this in a game I played a few years back. I was under the assumption the stats would be as dynamic as other games I've played. I was messing around and making builds with only a single high stat, with other stats being at 5. When I had "60 luck", despite being a stat for combat, did very little in any situation and my character kept dying. When I made a character with "60 str", they were doing far better than a character of equal level with "20" in all stats. When I made a character with only "60 agi", they were doing so-so, almost like the value was 30 when compared to the experience I had using a character with "60 str". Add to that that most techniques in the game were related to the str or magic stat. If there were techniques that multipled off agi or luck, it would allow a character who invested solely in that stat to be able to compete equally with other stat builds and allow for versatility in choice of techniques when fighting in a game. This is the goal I'm trying to accomplish.

I believe a game where all stats are equal in value per unit will allow for a metagame that is creative and complex. I believe trying to determine a stat set that can accomplish this will lead to an entertaining game.

To answer your question to determine the distinction between a healing type and attacking type, the system I have presented already answers that. The "Special" stat listed relates to the power of healing. If somebody invests in a high special stat, they won't have enough to put into the attack stat, so they will be good at healing and not in attack. It looks this prototype system is doing well then. :} Hmm, in my original post, it says special is related to healing. :{ Also, If somebody invests in attack and special, and not in defense, they will be very frail, but able to heal to avoid being KO'd, although such a build would have to manage energy wisely, as trying to heal and attack will empty the energy bar quickly{I forgot to mention that both HP, ENERGY, and PSI have minimal regeneration, so if somebody isn't attacked for a long time, they will eventually regain all their HP back.}. Also, the reason Special is classified as OFF/DEF, because there are techniques that use the special stat to up attack power. Do you have any other questions about this system?

Another balancing feature is a system that determines the number of techniques a player may have. For example, say it uses a value of 100 as the limit. Some techniques will have a value ranging from 2 for weak moves and 30 for the most powerful techniques, both healing and attack. In this way, it would be impossible to tack on all the best techniques and make the player have to think of a balanced list of techniques. Perhaps a list mostly made up of techniques with values of 10, and a single technique of 20 so that any situation can be handled. That is the best that can be done in this system. A skilled player would make the best use of the techniques they have picked to compliment their stat build. To simply put it, attack techniques for an offensive build, a variety of techniques for a balanced build, and defensive techniques for a defensive build.

I think even a system with a limited number of stats, if well designed, can work well.

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I understand what your trying to do, but it's difficult to actually see how this would work out without more context. I mean, even in the example you gave of bad balancing, with luck being much less effective than strength, that could just be a numbers problem. Every point in luck might just need some X% bonus in whatever it does to make 60 points of it equivalent to 60 points of strength. And with that in mind, the system you came up with could be just as unbalanced if the effect for every point invested doesn't balance out.

And just because the stat system is balanced, doesn't mean the game is. I mean, it looks like your assigning arbitrary values to techniques based on what you perceive to be their worth. Unless all your abilities are just variations of ATK X 10 = Damage Dealt, balancing all the different abilities would be a lot more difficult and time consuming than making a balanced stat system.

The circular system is pretty much the classic game of rock - paper - scissors, and if you want to, you don't need to redo your stat system to fit that. You could do it with classes instead.

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The system I'm trying to build, will allow any build an equal chance to win{and by that, I mean granted both players are equal in skill.} Basically, I want to make a game where two people using completely different builds will have an equal chance of winning if the players are equal in skill.


That is the problem with all this. If any 2 builds must always be on equal footing, the whole stat system becomes an illusion and provides no meaningful choice to the player. This means I could throw my stats wherever and keep 50% chance to win? What's the point of going with an offensive build over a defensive build other than flavor?

Like ICTimez said, even if the stats are balanced, the game might not be. You may balance the stats for 1v1 combat, but it might break down in 5v5 combat. You end up with an optimal build for 5v5 combat which is equally effective in 1v1 and everyone ends up with that build.

Like I said, you still got it backwards. Create the combat system first. Make it interesting without any stat. Then you will be able to derive the stats you need and have a base to figure out if it's still balanced or not. From a player perspective, the stats usually come before the combat system because it's tied to character growth. But from the designer perspective, it's the opposite and the stats are knobs he added afterwards to allow players to tweak some parameters and allow progression.

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ICTimez: About the arbitrary numbers regarding the techniques. Even though in the example they are indeed arbitrary, but in-game, there would be a formula to determine what those numbers do. For example, a technique with a power of 10 means that it has 10 points to divide between its stats of Atk, Spd, Acc. It could be 5,2,3 for a strong attack or 1, 3, 5 for an accurate attack. Although there should be a formula if the game has more stats to handle so that it doesn't get out of hand.

True about your other points. I still haven't determined how 1 str can be of equal value to 1 spd and so on. Perhaps a mathematical formula would help?

About classes, I thought about it, perhaps some classes give stat modifiers, like being a dragon would give 50% to attack and defense to simulate the power of that kind of beast, but take %50 from speed due to their incredible size. A knight would just have a modifier of x1 in all stats? Well, either way, part of a feature I want in the game is that the player decides what "class" their character could look like based on the "theme" they give to their character. They could give a stat set that would simulate that class should they choose or go with any stat set they could possibly desire. I expect players to make whatever their favorite thing is wether its an alien or whale or even something human like a warrior, it all depends on the user. Thats what customization is all about.

Tiblanc: You got me there, it would probably fall apart in team battles. I think the system would need to get more intricate when it comes to number of stats in order to cover many possibilities regarding combat.

I'm not sure what you mean by create a combat system. Do you mean the attacks and weapons? If so, I already have that covered then. :) Allow me to demonstrate a few old examples from last year. It's from a different game design I'm working on.

GD10.png
http://i841.photobuc...terrupt/GD1.png

I plan to make new examples soon, as I can illustrate like this now:
Yt3Lv.png

http://i.imgur.com/HHTvu.png http://i.imgur.com/ZO4sl.png http://i.imgur.com/Yt3Lv.png http://imgur.com/NsVUD http://imgur.com/ODAlc http://imgur.com/R8KlF These are characters that are possible to make in the game's creation engine. Which is why it's important I figure out a good fighting system for assigning stats to such characters. Different sizes, different shapes, different overall appearances. All possible in a creation engine that allows you to build starting from basic shapes and working your way from there until you have something that you like, you can give them color schemes, put the eyes, arms, anywhere. Although I'm sure most people would want the eyes on the head, I think some more imaginative people would put eyes on the chest and make a creature with 4 arms and various other things. Basically, what you make represents you somehow if that is what people choose to do, or you could just make something that looks like your favorite animal/character/object etc.

All I know is, I'll find a way to make this game reality, it's too fun not to let it exist. Of course, I need to learn about stats a little more which is why I'm studying this simple system, if I can make a simple system work, then that will help me learn how to better design and improve the more intricate system I'm workin on.

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If you go with a class system that gives a 50% bonus to some stats, then the optimal strategy would be to dump all your points into these stats because it will give you a higher stat total. Since you are supposed to have a 50% win rate against an equal stat total build, it's logical to go with whatever gives you the highest stat total. At that point, every dragon dumps their stats in attack/defense and none in speed. This gives the players an illusion of choice, not an actual choice.
By combat system I mean what will form the base of an actual combat, not the graphical fluff that comes over it. These are the core mechanics upon which the whole system is built. They are also the choices the players make during combat and their risk/reward. This is what will differentiate your game from any other game out there. You usually want 1 or 2 generic core concepts upon which the whole game is built. Things like FF13's stagger gauge. Everything in that game is related to that gauge in some way. Some moves increases it, others benefit from it being high, etc. It must be easy to understand and give you a lot of ways to build upon this. That PSI gauge would be a good starting point. You could also go for a generic RPG system.

Next you need to build upon these mechanics. Figure out what actions players will take in combat and what their effect will be. Figure out the combat flow and what players can do to turn the battle in their favor and what can be done to prevent losing the advantage. Don't bother with stats yet. You need to make sure this part is fun because it will account for the majority of the time spent by players. It should be easy to learn, hard to master and provide enough tactical depth to spawn strategies(unless you want your game to be 100% about character customization). Take note of every parameter you need in these formulas. These are not your base stats, they are combat useful stats and are usually derived from base stats in some way. You could easily have 20+ of these stats.

Then you can figure out the base stats. Take the combat useful stats and see which are related according to the customization you want to provide to the players. See which are opposite. Figure out a reduced stat set that will become the knobs players can tweak to develop character builds. This is what I meant by healing and damage magic. Say you want to have a healer which is not good at throwing fireballs, you need to separate the HealPower stat with the MagicPower stat. If you say that SPECIAL influence both these stats, then it's impossible to have a healer that's not good at throwing fireballs. That's a side effect of having a reduced stat set and why you must have a strong game design at this point so you know what's acceptable and what's not. You also need to make sure extremes do not break your game. See what happens if you wildly vary the values or what happens when players grow to max level and tweak the combat system until nothing breaks anymore. It could be possible that there is no way to fix it, at which point you throw it away and start again.

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Sorry, that I can't really comment on your game. I love thinking about CRPG design, too, but ballancing battles from a stats perspective a bit too micro for me.

Anyway, what I really want to say, if you don't mind, is that the early gameplay design pick is hilarious. Do you think you would make a webcomic?

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Tiblanc: Yes, the suggestion of a class system using % increases in stats is a poor design choice and would indeed create imbalance in the form of stat hoarding. I wasn't thinking well when I even suggested it on the spot.

About combat system, oh you meant THAT. I apologize, I was just confused since the original subject was regarding the mystery of stat parallels, but if presenting other aspects would help you better able to analyze, then I am obliged!

I present to you some old notes, while made for the game that uses the "U.M." stat system, still applies to this game as stat calculations and other aspects will simply be more centralized and less complex. {I was planning to make a in-depth presentation covering nearly all aspects of the game from customizatoin to game play, but was going to do it with my new art skills. When I do, it will be a seperate thread as this thread was just a discussion about stat parallels.}

At the top, we have the flow chart regarding how the system goes. Below that, an in-game graphical explanation.
GAME3.png
{Note stats that are mentioned not present in what I presented in the original post, this is due to the U.M. system having 3 sets of 6 stats {relating to the three aspects system of the game} to determine various aspects of combat. Sounds frightengly complex, but to me, it's kind of fun. Although I can see that a casual player would lose interest if they see that many stats, which is why that system also comes with a "user friendly" mode for those who don't want to mess with stats and be given a simpler version to work with. Players who want to go hardcore with their characters stats can go to advanced mode, doing so will allow even more unique builds to be made. Part of the reason I'm doing this "stat simplification exercise, is to learn of a way to present these stats in a more user friendly manner without losing the games ability to make unique builds and techniques}.

Another note I found is that while you wait for your opponent to make a decision regarding a skill/technique, you can look around the battlefield{that game is meant to be 3d, the game presented in the original post is meant to be the 2d, simple stat version of it.} The game freezes when somebody is making a choice, and you have 10-20 seconds to make a choice{think speed chess}, although you can edit the amount of time to wait.} Another thing I want to mention is that you can zoom the camera in and out, to either get a better view of whats happening, or get a wide view of the area.
GAME2.png
The options in that bubble that appears next to your character are attack menus, for example "Offense" will contain a list of offensive techniques, as pictured in the flow chart in the other example. Defense will have defensive techniques and so on. I think the last two are self-explanatory.

The meter at the bottom is the "U.M.", which is a system I devised to determine "tunrs". Although, the above examples should hint at what it does, I'll discuss it in the topic regarding the game itself.

Here is a full view of the example in the other post. It should be a big hint at what "U.M" determines.
GD1.png

Of course, I can't use "U.M." in this 2d system with these stats, which is why I'm trying to design something new entirely. Like you mentioned, the Psi bar is a start, although it acts more like an energy bar but for determining calculations involved in other aspects of techniques.

The question regarding what determines if a healer is also good at fireballs. I'll take a look at the stats presented in the op to prevent confusion with my other system. For this system, the offense stat, as annoying as this sounds, determines fireballs as well as physical attacks{yes, this annoyed me at first, but theres more.} What deferentiates the two is the other page on a characters abilities: the attributes page.

On this page are various attributes, such as elemental typing, and the stat set that determines if you're good at healing, special attacks, or physical attacks, the "soul aspects". These being FORM, POWER, and MIND. Form being related to physical attacks, Power to elemental/spiritual attacks, and mind relating to all things psychic. These stats are set and always static, you pick them on the creation of your character, and they have a cap of 15. With the norm being 5. So a regular stat set{Form, Power, Mind} would be 5,5,5 for somebody who is average in all aspects. Now for a healer, they would have 1,6,8. A person who is good with fireballs would be 1,12, 2. These stats would act as modifiers regarding abilities. In this way, if a person is able to do both healing and fireballs, they will be average or below in both since their aspects would be divided between the two, a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal.

I got this "soul aspects" from the game that uses "U.M." although this version is more simplified. The icons you see on the character page are Form{Fist icon}, Power{Exploding icon}, and Mind{Psi symbol}. Those word bubbles are examples of offensive techniques and special techniques a character may have.
GAME6.png

A later version. Also listing various offensive techniques.
Monkey.png

More examples:
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/FragrantX/PrimalX/Ape.png
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/FragrantX/PrimalX/AG2.png
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/FragrantX/PrimalX/AG3.png
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/FragrantX/PrimalX/Wasp.png
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz337/FragrantX/PrimalX/Dragon.png

Also, if there's any questions about weapons, the examples should provide answers to that, as there can be anything from medieval style swords to things as mundane looking as magnifiers{which in game would assist with energy/light based attacks, just how swords help physical, intertia based attacks by concentrating the force into the blade.}

Thank you for response though, you bring up various good points which I wish some games would follow, as there was this game I remember that stuck dodging, accuracy, and attack speed unto one stat, making everybody invest only in speed to win all their fights. Anyways, tell me if my notes helped answer any questions you had. The mark of a good game designer is a person that thinks all those possibilities out when designing even the simplest of systems.

Also, in regards to two equal yet different builds played by equally skilled players having only a 50% chance of winning: I think there is more to it than just that. Even if the players are equally skill, there are other things to account for: Mind games, feints, picking the right move for the right situation, making the most efficient use of energy/mp/meter{depending on the game}, and other factors that would still lead to a fun, entertaining, and intense metagame to watch. Also, let me bring up the example of Chess, one of the oldest competitive games, yet still enjoyed by many, despite both players having equal chances of winning due to having the same "build". There have been many intense matches of chess, due to the mind games involved. I think a new game, that can evolve much further, will arise in the future.

Also, what is your analyses on this match? A game where both players are equally skilled yet have completely different styles of play due to having different characters that have different attack techniques.


Giauz:
Thanks, I have put the full version of that pic in an example in the response above.

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Tiblanc: Yes, the suggestion of a class system using % increases in stats is a poor design choice and would indeed create imbalance in the form of stat hoarding. I wasn't thinking well when I even suggested it on the spot.

About combat system, oh you meant THAT. I apologize, I was just confused since the original subject was regarding the mystery of stat parallels, but if presenting other aspects would help you better able to analyze, then I am obliged!

I present to you some old notes, while made for the game that uses the "U.M." stat system, still applies to this game as stat calculations and other aspects will simply be more centralized and less complex. {I was planning to make a in-depth presentation covering nearly all aspects of the game from customizatoin to game play, but was going to do it with my new art skills. When I do, it will be a seperate thread as this thread was just a discussion about stat parallels.}

At the top, we have the flow chart regarding how the system goes. Below that, an in-game graphical explanation.
GAME3.png
{Note stats that are mentioned not present in what I presented in the original post, this is due to the U.M. system having 3 sets of 6 stats {relating to the three aspects system of the game} to determine various aspects of combat. Sounds frightengly complex, but to me, it's kind of fun. Although I can see that a casual player would lose interest if they see that many stats, which is why that system also comes with a "user friendly" mode for those who don't want to mess with stats and be given a simpler version to work with. Players who want to go hardcore with their characters stats can go to advanced mode, doing so will allow even more unique builds to be made. Part of the reason I'm doing this "stat simplification exercise, is to learn of a way to present these stats in a more user friendly manner without losing the games ability to make unique builds and techniques}.

Another note I found is that while you wait for your opponent to make a decision regarding a skill/technique, you can look around the battlefield{that game is meant to be 3d, the game presented in the original post is meant to be the 2d, simple stat version of it.} The game freezes when somebody is making a choice, and you have 10-20 seconds to make a choice{think speed chess}, although you can edit the amount of time to wait.} Another thing I want to mention is that you can zoom the camera in and out, to either get a better view of whats happening, or get a wide view of the area.
GAME2.png
The options in that bubble that appears next to your character are attack menus, for example "Offense" will contain a list of offensive techniques, as pictured in the flow chart in the other example. Defense will have defensive techniques and so on. I think the last two are self-explanatory.

The meter at the bottom is the "U.M.", which is a system I devised to determine "tunrs". Although, the above examples should hint at what it does, I'll discuss it in the topic regarding the game itself.

Here is a full view of the example in the other post. It should be a big hint at what "U.M" determines.
GD1.png

Of course, I can't use "U.M." in this 2d system with these stats, which is why I'm trying to design something new entirely. Like you mentioned, the Psi bar is a start, although it acts more like an energy bar but for determining calculations involved in other aspects of techniques.

The question regarding what determines if a healer is also good at fireballs. I'll take a look at the stats presented in the op to prevent confusion with my other system. For this system, the offense stat, as annoying as this sounds, determines fireballs as well as physical attacks{yes, this annoyed me at first, but theres more.} What deferentiates the two is the other page on a characters abilities: the attributes page.

On this page are various attributes, such as elemental typing, and the stat set that determines if you're good at healing, special attacks, or physical attacks, the "soul aspects". These being FORM, POWER, and MIND. Form being related to physical attacks, Power to elemental/spiritual attacks, and mind relating to all things psychic. These stats are set and always static, you pick them on the creation of your character, and they have a cap of 15. With the norm being 5. So a regular stat set{Form, Power, Mind} would be 5,5,5 for somebody who is average in all aspects. Now for a healer, they would have 1,6,8. A person who is good with fireballs would be 1,12, 2. These stats would act as modifiers regarding abilities. In this way, if a person is able to do both healing and fireballs, they will be average or below in both since their aspects would be divided between the two, a "jack of all trades, master of none" type of deal.

I got this "soul aspects" from the game that uses "U.M." although this version is more simplified. The icons you see on the character page are Form{Fist icon}, Power{Exploding icon}, and Mind{Psi symbol}. Those word bubbles are examples of offensive techniques and special techniques a character may have.
GAME6.png

A later version. Also listing various offensive techniques.
Monkey.png

More examples:
http://i841.photobuc...PrimalX/Ape.png
http://i841.photobuc...PrimalX/AG2.png
http://i841.photobuc...PrimalX/AG3.png
http://i841.photobuc...rimalX/Wasp.png
http://i841.photobuc...malX/Dragon.png

Also, if there's any questions about weapons, the examples should provide answers to that, as there can be anything from medieval style swords to things as mundane looking as magnifiers{which in game would assist with energy/light based attacks, just how swords help physical, intertia based attacks by concentrating the force into the blade.}

Thank you for response though, you bring up various good points which I wish some games would follow, as there was this game I remember that stuck dodging, accuracy, and attack speed unto one stat, making everybody invest only in speed to win all their fights. Anyways, tell me if my notes helped answer any questions you had. The mark of a good game designer is a person that thinks all those possibilities out when designing even the simplest of systems.

Also, in regards to two equal yet different builds played by equally skilled players having only a 50% chance of winning: I think there is more to it than just that. Even if the players are equally skill, there are other things to account for: Mind games, feints, picking the right move for the right situation, making the most efficient use of energy/mp/meter{depending on the game}, and other factors that would still lead to a fun, entertaining, and intense metagame to watch. Also, let me bring up the example of Chess, one of the oldest competitive games, yet still enjoyed by many, despite both players having equal chances of winning due to having the same "build". There have been many intense matches of chess, due to the mind games involved. I think a new game, that can evolve much further, will arise in the future.

Also, what is your analyses on this match? A game where both players are equally skilled yet have completely different styles of play due to having different characters that have different attack techniques.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qqKlK8-4glw

Giauz:
Thanks, I have put the full version of that pic in an example in the response above.I DID make a webcomic. :lol: Here's a link:

http://www.drunkduck...animal/5334687/

Unlike, the design for my game, I don't have extensive notes or planning regarding it's structure{story wise}, so it petered out as I had only few notes on it.It's only 8 pages, but some of the fights in there are possible within the U.M. system I designed, like "illusion style techniques". In the simple system, it would have to behave differently to represent "illusion" like stat downs or wrong target effects.

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