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ertesd

Ps2 game programming

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ertesd    100
Hello everyone!

I´m new in Gamedev and I´m trying to develop a PlayStation 2 game but I don´t know how. I know C and C++ language, but I don´t know how to continue. I want to do a more or less advanced game like Crash Bandicoot. Cortex Strikes Back, Warped or The Wrath Of Cortex; the Ratchet and Clank Series for PlayStation 2 or the Spyro: Enter The Dragonfly or A Hero´s Tail. I know that is difficult, but knowing C and C++ is less difficult.

Thanks and I wait your answer.

Note: Forgive me if I have a bad English because I´m Spanish.

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ApochPiQ    23003
You cannot develop for the PS2 without a development license from Sony, which is extremely expensive and requires you to prove a track record of publishing good games.

Since that option is not practical for you, would you be open to developing for a different platform? PC? iOS? Android? Maybe XBox 360 Arcade?

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David Neubelt    866
[quote name='ApochPiQ' timestamp='1311291547' post='4838700']
You cannot develop for the PS2 without a development license from Sony, which is extremely expensive and requires you to prove a track record of publishing good games.

Since that option is not practical for you, would you be open to developing for a different platform? PC? iOS? Android? Maybe XBox 360 Arcade?
[/quote]

I've personally never done it before but don't people make games on ps2 all the time?

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mdwh    1108
The question of legality seems to be a matter of debate AFAICT, and probably depends on the country. Here in the UK, ripping a CD you own for your mp3 player is breaking the law...

I presume he's referring to homebrew development, e.g., see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2#Homebrew_development"]http://en.wikipedia....rew_development[/url] , [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homebrew_(video_games)#PlayStation_2"]http://en.wikipedia....)#PlayStation_2[/url] .

Obviously investigating the issues such as distribution and legality would be worthwhile, as the market isn't likely to be anyone who owns a Playstation. But I don't think that should rule out discussion. I mean there are articles and plenty of discussion posts on Carmack's reverse ( [url="http://archive.gamedev.net/columns/hardcore/shadowvolume/page2.asp"]http://archive.gamed...olume/page2.asp[/url] ), even though it's a patented algorithm.

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ertesd    100
My objetive is not distribute this game, although I´m breaking the law, this game is for personal use, because I haven´t got the license from Sony to develop for PlayStation 2. My idea for this game (if I can do it) will be a continuation of Crash Bandicoot Series, with its characters such as Crash, Coco, etc.... for that reason my purpose was not distribute this game of any way, is for personal use, as neither, I haven´t got the license from Activision to develop a new Crash Bandicoot game. I haven´t got the license from Sony and neither from Activision, but I want to do it, apart, if I do it for iOS, Android or even for PC, it won´t be very advanced, playable and quality.

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yaustar    1022
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311342217' post='4838894']if I do it for iOS, Android or even for PC, it won´t be very advanced, playable and quality.[/quote]
Why not? Doing on the PS2 doesn't give you any advantage over developing for the iOS or PC. If you must develop on a console, the Dreamcast is a bit more accessible then the PS2. Look for the KOS SDK for Dreamcast http://gamedev.allusion.net/softprj/kos/

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XXChester    1364
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311342217' post='4838894']
iOS, Android or even for PC, it won´t be very advanced, playable and quality.
[/quote]

Just curious why you believe this? True the PlayStation consoles have better graphic chips in them than a phone or other consoles, but that statement is not true for PC as they can have even better graphics cards. Also just because something has an extremely powerful chip, it doesn't just look amazing by default, you still have to make the assets to run on that chip. There are many high quality, advanced games for the PC (platform I am most familiar with) and I am sure for the IOS and Andriod as well.

Just my 2 cents.

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ertesd    100
Ok, but I believe it, not by graphics or power but for control. The PlayStaiton 2 controller is easyer to use. My objetive is make a Crash Bandicoot game, and I think is better play it in Ps2 than in a mobile phone or in the PC. And with regard to the Dreamcast, I haven´t got this console.

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XXChester    1364
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311345812' post='4838928']
Ok, but I believe it, not by graphics or power but for control. The PlayStaiton 2 controller is easyer to use. My objetive is make a Crash Bandicoot game, and I think is better play it in Ps2 than in a mobile phone or in the PC. And with regard to the Dreamcast, I haven´t got this console.
[/quote]

Okay that makes sense. So you are looking at it from a input perspective and that makes sense.

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Hodgman    51226
[quote name='ApochPiQ' timestamp='1311315142' post='4838793']You cannot develop for the PS2 without ... break[ing] the law[/quote]That's just wrong information, and overly dramatic, sorry.
Sony released an official [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2"]PS2 linux[/url] distro, that came with an official PS2 HDD, which allowed you to develop and run your own software.
[quote]With PS2 Linux [[i]software and add-on hardware[/i]], a user can program his/her own games that will work under PS2 Linux, but not on an unmodified PlayStation 2. Free open source code for games are available for download from PS2 Linux support sites. There is little difference between PS2 Linux and the Linux software used on the more expensive system ("Tool", DTL-T10000) used by professional licenced PlayStation game programmers. Some amateur-created games are submitted to a competition such as the Independent Games Festival's annual competition. It is possible for an amateur to sell games or software that he/she develops using PS2 Linux, with certain restrictions detailed in the End User License Agreement.[/quote]That seems pretty legit to me.

Even if they didn't release their own official linux distro (which they did), there's nothing intrinsically illegal about installing your own 3rd party linux distro ([i]unless you break some anti-copy-circumvention law, etc, in doing so, which you don't have to in this case[/i]).

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JosephParrilla    171
[quote name='XXChester' timestamp='1311347273' post='4838956']
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311345812' post='4838928']
Ok, but I believe it, not by graphics or power but for control. The PlayStaiton 2 controller is easyer to use. My objetive is make a Crash Bandicoot game, and I think is better play it in Ps2 than in a mobile phone or in the PC. And with regard to the Dreamcast, I haven´t got this console.
[/quote]

Okay that makes sense. So you are looking at it from a input perspective and that makes sense.
[/quote]

I mean, yea that makes sense for touch screen phones. But Xbox Live, and a PC with a game controller are still better, more approachable options. XNA seems like the most appropriate choice, you can distribute on the PC for anyone with a gamepad, and on XBOX for everyone else. Seems a hell of a lot better than PS2, plus you can use C# which is a tad nicer than C++ :)

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ertesd    100
Okay I wont do it for PC because, I haven´t got a XBOX, I´m only a Sony and Nintendo user:).

If I make a game for PC with C++, the result will be the same or similar to Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath Of Cortex?, I say it because I´ve seen some games developed for PC in C++ and the result is a little elementary.

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JosephParrilla    171
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311354927' post='4839023']
Okay I wont do it for PC because, I haven´t got a XBOX, I´m only a Sony and Nintendo user:).

If I make a game for PC with C++, the result will be the same or similar to Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath Of Cortex?, I say it because I´ve seen some games developed for PC in C++ and the result is a little elementary.
[/quote]

Im not sure what this means. Theyre elementary? Are you aware that the majority of commercial game engines are written in C++? Im confused as to what you mean by this. Why do believe that a game written on the PS2 will be somehow "more advanced" than a PC?

Honestly, I have a very big feeling that you need to tackle some smaller projects first. Please dont take this the wrong way, but it seems as though you dont have a solid grasp of the nature of game development. Why dont you have a shot at some smaller projects first? Have you made any games before? If not, a Crash clone is going to be a bit over your head.My advice is to try C# and XNA, you can do some simple stuff and then you can move to 3D and try your hand at your idea.

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ertesd    100
It is a PC game written in C++: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlenAsHpkM

I would like to have a professional game, not it.

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JosephParrilla    171
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311355366' post='4839029']
It is a PC game written in C++: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlenAsHpkM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rxlenAsHpkM[/url]

I would like to have a professional game, not it.
[/quote]

Ok you need to start small, try making pong. You really dont yet understand much about game development, which is ok. You are not going to make something "professional" right now, so just forget about that. The game you posted most likely took a single developer quite a while to make. A common issue is that people who have never tried making a game, greatly underestimate what it takes. If you have never made a game before, you will not even be capable of making that game that you posted, let alone a Crash clone.

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JosephParrilla    171
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1311355468' post='4839032']
Here is [i]another[/i] PC game written in C++: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zw8SmsovJc[/media]
[/quote]

:) I was going to get to that point but Im trying to be as calm and friendly as possible. Its like Deja Vu every day with threads like this.

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ApochPiQ    23003
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1311353166' post='4839007']
[quote name='ApochPiQ' timestamp='1311315142' post='4838793']You cannot develop for the PS2 without ... break[ing] the law[/quote]That's just wrong information, and overly dramatic, sorry.
Sony released an official [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2"]PS2 linux[/url] distro, that came with an official PS2 HDD, which allowed you to develop and run your own software.
[quote]With PS2 Linux [[i]software and add-on hardware[/i]], a user can program his/her own games that will work under PS2 Linux, but not on an unmodified PlayStation 2. Free open source code for games are available for download from PS2 Linux support sites. There is little difference between PS2 Linux and the Linux software used on the more expensive system ("Tool", DTL-T10000) used by professional licenced PlayStation game programmers. Some amateur-created games are submitted to a competition such as the Independent Games Festival's annual competition. It is possible for an amateur to sell games or software that he/she develops using PS2 Linux, with certain restrictions detailed in the End User License Agreement.[/quote]That seems pretty legit to me.

Even if they didn't release their own official linux distro (which they did), there's nothing intrinsically illegal about installing your own 3rd party linux distro ([i]unless you break some anti-copy-circumvention law, etc, in doing so, which you don't have to in this case[/i]).
[/quote]


I stand corrected :-)

My last memory of Sony and Linux was the PS3 Linux support debacle, so I didn't even think that they had bothered properly supporting it for the PS2. My mistake.


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Ravyne    14300
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311355366' post='4839029']
It is a PC game written in C++: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlenAsHpkM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rxlenAsHpkM[/url]

I would like to have a professional game, not it.
[/quote]

Just what kind of magical pixie dust do you think the PS2 is made of anyhow? Your game will be as "elementary" as you make it, pretty much regardless of platform. Running your game on a PS2 doesn't make you any better of a programmer, or designer, or artist.

In fact, programming for the PS2 is going to be much, much harder than on the PC or XNA, or iOS --

The PS2 has (IIRC):
[list][*]A single mips64 processors at about 300Mhz, with two similar but not identical vector units (essentially DSPs) bolted on.[*]A fixed-function pixel pipeline (no shaders -- and transform and lighting are done on the vector units).[*]32 MB of RAM (+ a few more bits of ram here and there).[*]No official toolchain (PS2 linux is no longer supported)[/list]
The PS2 is essentially a 10 or 12 -year-old PC. Now, there are a number of reasons that consoles don't show their age as much as PCs do, mainly around the side-benefits of having a fixed platform, but none of those reasons are to your benefit as a solo hobbyist.

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Soaps79    116
[quote name='XXChester' timestamp='1311347273' post='4838956']
Okay that makes sense. So you are looking at it from a input perspective and that makes sense.
[/quote]
If this is the case, and the game is for personal use only, you could get an adapter:
http://www.amazon.com/PS2-USB-Dual-Controller-Adapter-Converter/dp/B000F6BGXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311372622&sr=8-1

Here is someone getting the controller to work under DirectX:
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/552685-directx-input-with-ps3-controller/

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JosephParrilla    171
[quote name='Ravyne' timestamp='1311370110' post='4839124']
[quote name='ertesd' timestamp='1311355366' post='4839029']
It is a PC game written in C++: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxlenAsHpkM"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=rxlenAsHpkM[/url]

I would like to have a professional game, not it.
[/quote]

Just what kind of magical pixie dust do you think the PS2 is made of anyhow? Your game will be as "elementary" as you make it, pretty much regardless of platform. Running your game on a PS2 doesn't make you any better of a programmer, or designer, or artist.

In fact, programming for the PS2 is going to be much, much harder than on the PC or XNA, or iOS --

The PS2 has (IIRC):
[list][*]A single mips64 processors at about 300Mhz, with two similar but not identical vector units (essentially DSPs) bolted on.[*]A fixed-function pixel pipeline (no shaders -- and transform and lighting are done on the vector units).[*]32 MB of RAM (+ a few more bits of ram here and there).[*]No official toolchain (PS2 linux is no longer supported)[/list]
The PS2 is essentially a 10 or 12 -year-old PC. Now, there are a number of reasons that consoles don't show their age as much as PCs do, mainly around the side-benefits of having a fixed platform, but none of those reasons are to your benefit as a solo hobbyist.
[/quote]

This is all true, but I dont even think the problem lies in the fact that he thinks the PS2 is in some way "superior". Its simply yet another case of someone not really understanding what goes into making a game. The posting of that game that he called "elementary" is a clear indicator of this. I think a page or something needs to be added to the FAQ, that just somehow explains that you cannot start game programming and make a commercial quality 3d game in one week. These topics are coming up constantly, and it usually leads to angry new people who think we are being "mean" and frustrated people on here because the OP just doesnt get the idea. This is the 3rd topic in the past two weeks that Ive posted in about this same exact thing :)

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