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torunefu

Where to start?

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Hey , im new to the game development community and i want to start creating a game. Just a simple rpg game where you can walk around , fight monsters with a click and interact with npcs. I dont know where to start from as there are so many topics in C++ , i dont know which one does game progamming need. Im just a beginner so i need a website which provides a tutorial from basic to expert on game programming. Well , so first of all what programmes do i need and where do i start? What should i learn first and how i should carry on from there?
ThANKS!

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Sorry to disappoint but, there is no tutorial which takes you from knowing nothing to being an expert. After all, how do you determine if you are an expert? Anyway, these things take time and a lot of practice. You have to start from the ground up, from building console applications and learning the language, fairly well. Only then, it is advised to go on to learning to create graphical applications. Why do you want to use C++? As many will agree, C# is a lot easier to learn. And you can use XNA to get up and started really quickly.
Anyway, best of luck.

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I've been working on a mega post to answer this and many other new developer questions that continue to reoccur ( of course, it's 100% my opinion ). I know GameDev has it's own FAQ but frankly I like mine a whole lot better.



Still a WIP at the moment, as I need to finish up the C# and Java sections, but it should be a help to new developers trying to find their way.



[url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/07/25/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx"]So you want to be a game developer... now what?[/url]

Let me know what you think. Once I finish each langauge section I will split each out to its own post, for more... speedy reading for people interested in a specific language.

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cant find the page ... you have to fix the link.

it think what the forum needs is a bot that automatically post a link to your page as answer to these kind of threads [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img]

my answer would be very short anyway.. "want to know where to start? start at www.google.com"

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[quote name='kunos' timestamp='1311613998' post='4840063']
cant find the page ... you have to fix the link.

it think what the forum needs is a bot that automatically post a link to your page as answer to these kind of threads [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif[/img]

my answer would be very short anyway.. "want to know where to start? start at www.google.com"
[/quote]


That link didn't work for you? Whats happening, you getting a 401 error?


As to starting at Google, to be honest thats become a bad idea as of late. Simply put, people have been too effective at gaming Google and if you google something like "C++ programming free book" or "newbie game developer" or "learning game programming", most of the results are completely useless sites. Google really needs to get better at determining "real" content from system generated crap. Next, due to the way page ranking works, established pages are often favoured, which defeats the microcontent sites, but poisons you in a different way... referring you to really outdated content. Thats why so many people come into these forums starting with Dev-C++.

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this is what I get:

[color=#555555][font=Verdana,]
[b]Ooops! I can't find the page you're looking for[/b]
You were incorrectly referred to this page by: [url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/error404.aspx"]www.gamedev.net[/url]

I suggest you try one of the links below:







[/font][/color]

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[quote name='kunos' timestamp='1311614579' post='4840072']
this is what I get:

[color="#555555"][font="Verdana,"]
[b]Ooops! I can't find the page you're looking for[/b]
You were incorrectly referred to this page by: [url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/error404.aspx"]www.gamedev.net[/url]

I suggest you try one of the links below:




[/font][/color]
[/quote]
[font="Verdana"][color="#555555"]Ahh, thanks. Fixed now ( link above editing, or [/color][/font][url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/07/25/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx"][font="Verdana"]Click here.[/font][/url][font="Verdana"][color="#555555"] )

Just an FYI to anyone running blogging software, be careful if it autogenerates URL's based on Title if your title contains a question mark! Bad BlogEngine, Bad!

Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the assistance, for some reason on my actual machine the link resolved just fine, I had to switch to my Mac to get the error you got. Odd.[/color][/font]

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[quote name='Crazyrem' timestamp='1311596170' post='4839951']
Hey , im new to the game development community and i want to start creating a game. Just a simple rpg game where you can walk around , fight monsters with a click and interact with npcs. I dont know where to start from as there are so many topics in C++ , i dont know which one does game progamming need. Im just a beginner so i need a website which provides a tutorial from basic to expert on game programming. Well , so first of all what programmes do i need and where do i start? What should i learn first and how i should carry on from there?
ThANKS!
[/quote]


I'm a beginner like you and I've been looking at this site lately. It has great articles. Here it is:

[url="http://www.hobbygamedev.com/articles/vol3/from-no-games-to-first-games/"]http://www.hobbygamedev.com/articles/vol3/from-no-games-to-first-games/[/url]

good luck to us!

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[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1311613324' post='4840051']
I've been working on a mega post to answer this and many other new developer questions that continue to reoccur ( of course, it's 100% my opinion ). I know GameDev has it's own FAQ but frankly I like mine a whole lot better.



Still a WIP at the moment, as I need to finish up the C# and Java sections, but it should be a help to new developers trying to find their way.



[url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/07/25/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx"]So you want to be a game developer... now what?[/url]

Let me know what you think. Once I finish each langauge section I will split each out to its own post, for more... speedy reading for people interested in a specific language.
[/quote]

This is EXTREMELY necessary. But the problem is, people just arent going to read it. Well let me put that better, they will read it, but theyll still come here and make a new topic. You would think that if there was a one stop explanation for beginner "I want to make games but have no idea how to program" questions, they would just read it and move on. The thing is, I can guarantee that there will still be many topics per day, the thing is, most people want more than just being told to go learn to program. They want to have their hand held and be told thats its simple and you wont have to learn math and that making an MMO for a first game is reasonable. They dont want to hear that it takes hard work and determination. In my experience, the people that actually go on and get really good, are the people that dont even start a topic here. Its the people that just scour the internet and learn from anything they can find. In my experience, if they start here and ask that golden old question, its already set up for failure. I know I sound so cynical lol, but its just my gut feeling on the matter. I really want to see what you write up though :)

When I started I did the same thing, asked a billion questions and was stubborn. I only made progress when I got off the damn forums, downloaded a free e-book on Java game development, locked myself in my room, and WORKED. Asking questions such as "cant figure out this bug" is fine, but all of the "where to start" conversations are rarely helpful, because in the end 99% of the people dont listen to a damn thing you tell them.

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i have to agree with joe.. going on a forum asking "what to do, where to start?" is just a sign that you just cant do it.
There are exceptions to the rule of course.. but 99% of the users either disappears or, for the following month, will start opening a new thread for each compile error they get.. until they finally give up and go back to whatever game they were playing before.
programming is mostly about finding solutions and informations about how to solve a particular problem.. if a kid is already giving up at t0 is clearly pre selected for extinction in the world of game programming... and no educated or constructive post can ever change this fact.

we should just cut and paste the link to serapth's awesome doc and let nature take its course.

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@joeparrilla: You nailed it perfectly


I also have the feeling that when people need to ask the dreaded "where to begin?"-question they'll probably fail (although there are exceptions); I believe there are a lot of people who want to get into game programming because they're gamers, and because they think gaming is fun game programming should be fun in a similar way
Also, because games are mostly for recreational purposes people get the impression that game development is a walk in the park and that everyone could do it with a couple of friends, no matter the size of the project

These kind of people will probably always be here, so we'll just have to cope with them

No offense to the OP, I'm just stating what I think is going on

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I actually agree with all 3 of you, although not quite as cynically as Joe. :) What Radikalizm said [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]is bang on, lots of gamers think "games are fun, game programming must be extremely fun!". To a certain degree, it is too, at least to certain people but its also bloody difficult. Just like any difficult task, once people hit the difficulty curve, they bail, thats the same in almost every difficult hobby.[/color][/size]
[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]
[/color][/size]
[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]On the other hand though, there is a lot of outdated and misleading information out there and frankly there may be too many books at this point, that a user can get overwhelmed. This is the idea behind my post. I really did find myself responding to the same questions again and again, so I figured I would make one super answer and paste it when appropriate. I do think a number of new users genuinely are interested in learning and just need a bit of guidance... thus the post. :)[/color][/size]

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[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1311704530' post='4840712']
I actually agree with all 3 of you, although not quite as cynically as Joe. :) What Radikalizm said [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]is bang on, lots of gamers think "games are fun, game programming must be extremely fun!". To a certain degree, it is too, at least to certain people but its also bloody difficult. Just like any difficult task, once people hit the difficulty curve, they bail, thats the same in almost every difficult hobby.[/color][/size]

[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]On the other hand though, there is a lot of outdated and misleading information out there and frankly there may be too many books at this point, that a user can get overwhelmed. This is the idea behind my post. I really did find myself responding to the same questions again and again, so I figured I would make one super answer and paste it when appropriate. I do think a number of new users genuinely are interested in learning and just need a bit of guidance... thus the post. :)[/color][/size]
[/quote]

I agree. I know I was harsh, but after responding to so many of these topics, and just being mostly ignored, its really frustrating. I have given genuine advice, and some people just dont want to hear it. Sure, some people just need that little point in the right direction and theyre good, but once the thread gets a few pages long and theyre still searching for a golden answer, we have a problem.

The point is, the place to begin game development is at the BEGINNING! Surprise, I know. The problem is that, the beginning isnt flashy, it isnt super cool 3d, it isnt COD or WOW or whatever. Its pong, or tetris or something like that, and kids who are playing WOW all day dont want to bother with this. They want to make the stuff that they play. Some will accept that it wont happen, at least not for a while, and those people will go on and actually get good. But sadly the vast majority just wont accept that.. they want to know what all the best programs are and the "tools" they need. So they get all of these crazy things like 3DS MAX, Photoshop, OpenGL, etc, etc... and they sadly fail because they dont have the slightest idea what to do with any of it. What they need is a language and a compiler, but hey.. thats not AWESOME 3D MMORPGGRTSS!! Thats just a lame console with text.

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[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1311705162' post='4840724']
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1311704530' post='4840712']
I actually agree with all 3 of you, although not quite as cynically as Joe. :) What Radikalizm said [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]is bang on, lots of gamers think "games are fun, game programming must be extremely fun!". To a certain degree, it is too, at least to certain people but its also bloody difficult. Just like any difficult task, once people hit the difficulty curve, they bail, thats the same in almost every difficult hobby.[/color][/size]

[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]On the other hand though, there is a lot of outdated and misleading information out there and frankly there may be too many books at this point, that a user can get overwhelmed. This is the idea behind my post. I really did find myself responding to the same questions again and again, so I figured I would make one super answer and paste it when appropriate. I do think a number of new users genuinely are interested in learning and just need a bit of guidance... thus the post. :)[/color][/size]
[/quote]

I agree. I know I was harsh, but after responding to so many of these topics, and just being mostly ignored, its really frustrating. I have given genuine advice, and some people just dont want to hear it. Sure, some people just need that little point in the right direction and theyre good, but once the thread gets a few pages long and theyre still searching for a golden answer, we have a problem.

The point is, the place to begin game development is at the BEGINNING! Surprise, I know. The problem is that, the beginning isnt flashy, it isnt super cool 3d, it isnt COD or WOW or whatever. Its pong, or tetris or something like that, and kids who are playing WOW all day dont want to bother with this. They want to make the stuff that they play. Some will accept that it wont happen, at least not for a while, and those people will go on and actually get good. But sadly the vast majority just wont accept that.. so they get all of these crazy things like 3DS MAX, Photoshop, OpenGL, etc, etc... and they sadly fail.
[/quote]

Very true, but I keep answering even though many people ignore any advice they just don't want to hear. But I keep giving advice for the 1 in 10, or 1 in 100 that actually listen and learn, as one day they might be rockstar developers and create some damned good game that will entertain my ass while I am rocking back and forth at the old age home. Plus frankly, I enjoy teaching to a degree.

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[quote][color=#1C2837][size=2]lots of gamers think "games are fun, game programming must be extremely fun!". To a certain degree, it is too, at least to certain people but its also bloody difficult. Just like any difficult task, once people hit the difficulty curve, they bail, thats the same in almost every difficult hobby.[/size][/color][/quote]


Game programming can be very fun and rewarding, but the 'type of fun' you get from game programming is completely different from the fun you get from gaming because the 'reward' you get from both is entirely different

[quote][color=#1C2837][size=2]On the other hand though, there is a lot of outdated and misleading information out there and frankly there may be too many books at this point, that a user can get overwhelmed.[/size][/color][/quote]

Absolutely right
I've been able to look through a couple of game development books, and the ones which were actually useful and which actually gave the reader valuable advice imo were only a small percentage of all available books

A lot of books try to take a linear approach to writing games, like "follow this step, this step and this step and there you go, you have a game"
While the reader might have a game at the end of this, they were probably able to do a lot of copy-pasting from the source code which is provided with most modern books, and in the end they will barely have learned a single thing

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[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1311705377' post='4840726']
[quote name='joeparrilla' timestamp='1311705162' post='4840724']
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1311704530' post='4840712']
I actually agree with all 3 of you, although not quite as cynically as Joe. :) What Radikalizm said [size="2"][color="#1c2837"]is bang on, lots of gamers think "games are fun, game programming must be extremely fun!". To a certain degree, it is too, at least to certain people but its also bloody difficult. Just like any difficult task, once people hit the difficulty curve, they bail, thats the same in almost every difficult hobby.[/color][/size]

[size="2"][color="#1c2837"]On the other hand though, there is a lot of outdated and misleading information out there and frankly there may be too many books at this point, that a user can get overwhelmed. This is the idea behind my post. I really did find myself responding to the same questions again and again, so I figured I would make one super answer and paste it when appropriate. I do think a number of new users genuinely are interested in learning and just need a bit of guidance... thus the post. :)[/color][/size]
[/quote]

I agree. I know I was harsh, but after responding to so many of these topics, and just being mostly ignored, its really frustrating. I have given genuine advice, and some people just dont want to hear it. Sure, some people just need that little point in the right direction and theyre good, but once the thread gets a few pages long and theyre still searching for a golden answer, we have a problem.

The point is, the place to begin game development is at the BEGINNING! Surprise, I know. The problem is that, the beginning isnt flashy, it isnt super cool 3d, it isnt COD or WOW or whatever. Its pong, or tetris or something like that, and kids who are playing WOW all day dont want to bother with this. They want to make the stuff that they play. Some will accept that it wont happen, at least not for a while, and those people will go on and actually get good. But sadly the vast majority just wont accept that.. so they get all of these crazy things like 3DS MAX, Photoshop, OpenGL, etc, etc... and they sadly fail.
[/quote]

Very true, but I keep answering even though many people ignore any advice they just don't want to hear. But I keep giving advice for the 1 in 10, or 1 in 100 that actually listen and learn, as one day they might be rockstar developers and create some damned good game that will entertain my ass while I am rocking back and forth at the old age home. Plus frankly, I enjoy teaching to a degree.
[/quote]

Im with you. Its also why I still torture myself and reply here almost daily :) I dont even consider myself much past a beginner, but having the common sense to face reality about the nature of making games, and at least having a programming background, makes me feel able to help others and give sound advice.

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