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way2lazy2care

Rugby World Cup

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Rugby world cup is only a couple weeks out. What's everybody's take on it? First time it's going to be broadcast in force in north america. Super excited for that. It's a sport that really deserves more recognition than it gets right now in NA.

I want Scotland to win, I think South Africa will actually win, and I want the US to not play like balls.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313152749' post='4848197']
Rugby world cup is only a couple weeks out. What's everybody's take on it? First time it's going to be broadcast in force in north america. Super excited for that. It's a sport that really deserves more recognition than it gets right now in NA.

I want Scotland to win, I think South Africa will actually win, and I want the US to not play like balls.
[/quote]

What channel is sponsoring it? I didn't know it was going to be covered here.

As always, I love the world cup but don't get into it because the play times are always during work and the coverage sucks ass. I wish they had the games on the internet for any-time viewing.

Unfortunately, the US is going to get creamed as always, there is just not enough support for the team to have a well fielded 22 guys who can train continuously year round. I have a plan to fix it, but it will cost around $2-$3 million dollars.

Here is my plan:
1. Scrape the talent from washout NFL and NBA players (the guys who sit the bench and then get kicked off the team but are still super athletic).
2. Pay them a decent wage, enough to move to a central location and not have to work a full time job on the side (ie $75-$100k a year).
3. Train the bejeesus out of them, a la "Miracle".
4. Make a reality series of the whole process, from try outs to the world cup.

The idea is that the series finale would cooincide with the World Cup. The country would have names and faces and a story to rally behind. With the talent from the other sports, and the ability to train together all year without having to work, we could have a decent team. The reality show would be slowly training the viewer on how the game is played, so when the world cup happens everyone gets the basics of the game and how it's played. Hopefully at this time we would do well in the cup, and then the sport would garner enough attention here to get more and better players and decent tv coverage.
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[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313179625' post='4848393']
What channel is sponsoring it? I didn't know it was going to be covered here.[/quote]
NBC and Universal sports are both going to be showing games. Pretty sure most of them won't be live, but it's better than usual. Setanta lost the exclusive web rights too it too, so we might see them online as well.

[quote]Unfortunately, the US is going to get creamed as always, there is just not enough support for the team to have a well fielded 22 guys who can train continuously year round. I have a plan to fix it, but it will cost around $2-$3 million dollars.

Here is my plan:
1. Scrape the talent from washout NFL and NBA players (the guys who sit the bench and then get kicked off the team but are still super athletic).
2. Pay them a decent wage, enough to move to a central location and not have to work a full time job on the side (ie $75-$100k a year).
3. Train the bejeesus out of them, a la "Miracle".
3. Make a reality series of the whole process, from try outs to the world cup.[/quote]
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby. The big problem I think we have is most of the best US players aren't professionals, they are still amateurs (largely because of money). They lose out on a lot of the training luxuries most other countries get. We do have a handful of great athletes though. We do pretty solidly in the international 7s, which is better than nothing. I just hope we don't do terribly because it's finally on TV in the US and we need a team to get behind for it to really catch on here.

4. would be cool though.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby. The big problem I think we have is most of the best US players aren't professionals, they are still amateurs (largely because of money). They lose out on a lot of the training luxuries most other countries get. We do have a handful of great athletes though. We do pretty solidly in the international 7s, which is better than nothing. I just hope we don't do terribly because it's finally on TV in the US and we need a team to get behind for it to really catch on here.

4. would be cool though.
[/quote]

I've never played an international match so I dont' know what the world Rugby talent pool is like for say Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. I have played with a few Eagles in various capacities, and though they were definitely awesome, the strength, speed, and raw athletic ability they had paled in comparison to the former NFL draft players I have played against. I just imagine if we are going to start paying our athletes a reasonable wage, that NFL washouts would probably be the biggest bang for the buck.

That being said, just getting the 22 best Rugby players in the country and paying them enough so that they could move to Boulder and wouldn't have to work would do wonders for our team. I get pissed when I see the worst PGA golfers pulling in six figures, and yet our best Rugby players, who abuse themselves on a regular basis, still have to work 40 hours a week at an office somewhere.
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Im in Nelson we've got a few games here, including the Eagles.
I prolly wont be going to any games. I was hoping the tournament was going to be played in Japan and not here.

[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/ABworldcup.jpg[/img]

Hopefully I win more this time than last time (though $900 taxfree aint to be sniffed at)

Here are the current odds, Australia looks like a good bet

1 New Zealand $1.62
2 Australia $5.00
3 South Africa $6.50
4 France $17.00
5 England $10.00
6 Ireland $30.00
7 Wales $50.00
8 Argentina $100.00
9 Scotland $100.00
10 Italy $500.00
11 Fiji $500.00
12 Samoa $100.00
13 Tonga $2000.00
14 Canada $2000.00
15 USA $2000.00
16 Georgia $10000.00
17 Namibia $10000.00
18 Russia $10000.00
19 Japan $10000.00
20 Romania $10000.00

played here in Nelson
Tues Sept 20 19.30 Italy v Russia
Tue Sept 27 19.30 Italy v USA
Sat Oct 1 15.30 Australia v Russia (was in CHCH)
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[quote]I have played with a few Eagles in various capacities, and though they were definitely awesome, the strength, speed, and raw athletic ability they had paled in comparison to the former NFL draft players I have played against.[/quote]
Even more important than those traits for rugby is fitness, NFL guys would have strength/speed but would need to train to survive 80mins as its a much harder workload than NFL. Thats what sets the good teams apart from the guys that dont play as much, fitness ( as well as skills ) i.e. strength/speed are important but not as much.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313152749' post='4848197']
Rugby world cup is only a couple weeks out. What's everybody's take on it? First time it's going to be broadcast in force in north america. Super excited for that. It's a sport that really deserves more recognition than it gets right now in NA.

I want Scotland to win, I think South Africa will actually win, and I want the US to not play like balls.
[/quote]

Scotland haven't played any decent rugby in years. South Africa are looking particularly terrible this year and the US? Well, it's an nth tier sport there, so I really don't see you doing much. The All Blacks are looking typically unbeatable in the run up to the RWC, so I'm guessing that will mean a humiliating exit against a team "they should have beaten" in the quarters or semis. The Aussies and the English always rise to the occasion, but I think the Pumas (Argentina) will have another good tournament.

As for me, I'm going to see Ireland play Italy in Dunedin and maybe Ireland Australia if I can get around the 400% markup on accommodation in Auckland. I'm not picking Ireland to do well, but ya never know, so I will be supporting (in the following order):
Ireland
New Zealand
Argentina
anyone playing Australia or England :)
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[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1313306095' post='4848876']
Scotland haven't played any decent rugby in years. South Africa are looking particularly terrible this year[/quote]
Scotland didn't look that bad in the 6 nations. They played well even though they caught some rough breaks that made them look a lot worse than they are. They have a lot of good talent and I think summer was enough time to work out the kinks that hurt them in the 6 nations. They did beat Ireland just recently...


[quote]and the US? Well, it's an nth tier sport there, so I really don't see you doing much.[/quote]
I don't think the US is going to do any good at all. I just want them to not do horribly so the sport gains some momentum in NA. If I expected them to do well I would have said I wanted them to win instead of scotland :-p

[quote] The All Blacks are looking typically unbeatable in the run up to the RWC, so I'm guessing that will mean a humiliating exit against a team "they should have beaten" in the quarters or semis. The Aussies and the English always rise to the occasion, but I think the Pumas (Argentina) will have another good tournament.

As for me, I'm going to see Ireland play Italy in Dunedin and maybe Ireland Australia if I can get around the 400% markup on accommodation in Auckland. I'm not picking Ireland to do well, but ya never know, so I will be supporting (in the following order):
Ireland
New Zealand
Argentina
[/quote]
Ireland's a solid guess. NZ will probably play well, but similar to what you said I feel like they're going to choke at some point. If ireland performs to the ability they did against england in spring I can't see anybody stopping them (except scotland). Not sure they could keep up that tempo through the whole cup though.

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My thoughts: Rugby is the most awesome sport I've seen, and (luckily) not yet commercialized in the same perverse way as soccer and american football (and.... hooligan-free).

Having said that, who cares who's the winner as long as the matches are good. :cool:
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[quote name='samoth' timestamp='1313331688' post='4848970']
Having said that, who cares who's the winner as long as the matches are good. :cool:
[/quote][quote name='zedz' timestamp='1313279036' post='4848806']

[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/ABworldcup.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


;)
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.
[/quote]

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_B_sK1lBw"]Miles Craigwell[/url] was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.
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[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313600814' post='4850389']
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.
[/quote]

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_B_sK1lBw"]Miles Craigwell[/url] was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.
[/quote]

7s isn't that accurate to how you'd play in a union game though. 7 minute halves with mostly break away runs is right up an NFL player's alley. NFL players are tremendously tuned towards short periods of high activity, but tend to be worse at pacing themselves and lasting for longer periods of time. Not to say an NFL player wouldn't be good at Rugby, but I'd take a team of reasonably trained Union players over a team of NFL players any day.

Of course he'd probably be great on the wing; can't deny that.

Where the US would struggle with using NFL players would be the forward pack. Most NFL players aren't built like a good forward pack. They are either too light/weak or too heavy/out of shape. Maybe a whole forward pack made of defensive ends and linebackers? Having been a hooker for just under a decade I weep for the neck of the hooker that has to deal with that in scrums...

edit: also skill positions. Fly half, scrum half, and fullback probably wouldn't be that awesome if we just used NFL players. Nobody would be able to kick the ball.

double edit: Of course with our showing against [size="1"]Canada [size="2"]I guess pretty much anything would be better than what we have now ;)[/size][/size]
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313601665' post='4850395']
[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313600814' post='4850389']
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313180091' post='4848398']
We don't need to scrape washout NFL/NBA players. There's plenty of solid rugby talent in USA rugby.
[/quote]

I just saw this this morning. I'm not a big 7's fan but I thought this was interesting. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_B_sK1lBw"]Miles Craigwell[/url] was going to be a bench-warmer for the dolphins and in less than a year he's starting for the USA team. I'm interested to see him play to see how he does. I think it will quiet a lot of the discussions about NFL fitness and the time it takes to learn Rugby skills. FYI he got a 21.4 on the beep test, which I'm pretty sure destroys the previous highest score (never heard of anyone doing over 19). Would be neat to see if he starts a trend for others in the NFL to follow, we might have an all-star 7s team.
[/quote]

7s isn't that accurate to how you'd play in a union game though. 7 minute halves with mostly break away runs is right up an NFL player's alley. NFL players are tremendously tuned towards short periods of high activity, but tend to be worse at pacing themselves and lasting for longer periods of time. Not to say an NFL player wouldn't be good at Rugby, but I'd take a team of reasonably trained Union players over a team of NFL players any day.

Of course he'd probably be great on the wing; can't deny that.

Where the US would struggle with using NFL players would be the forward pack. Most NFL players aren't built like a good forward pack. They are either too light/weak or too heavy/out of shape. Maybe a whole forward pack made of defensive ends and linebackers? Having been a hooker for just under a decade I weep for the neck of the hooker that has to deal with that in scrums...

edit: also skill positions. Fly half, scrum half, and fullback probably wouldn't be that awesome if we just used NFL players. Nobody would be able to kick the ball.

double edit: Of course with our showing against [size="1"]Canada [size="2"]I guess pretty much anything would be better than what we have now ;)[/size][/size]
[/quote]

7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.

In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.
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[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313609817' post='4850463']
7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.[/quote]
7's takes more of a different kind of fitness. You don't really have to pace yourself that much, which is exactly what you'd have to do in a union match. 7s is generally less technical as most of the time it's get the ball and run as fast as you can, which is right up an NFL player's alley.

Union takes a huge amount of field awareness, more positional skill, and a much deeper knowledge of the sport than 7s.

[quote]In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.
[/quote]
They'd definitely be competitive, but I've played rugby against both tremendous athletes and non-athletic skilled rugby players. The less athletic skilled rugby players tended to completely kick our asses, and the more athletic people usually turned the game into more of a grind.

I'll agree that we could make up for our lack of skill with better athletes, but I'd prefer we just had more skill. Our athleticism isn't really our weak point as it stands right now; our problem is we have guys who've been playing rugby for 6 years holding down day jobs competing against guys who have been playing rugby for close to 20 who don't have to do anything but train to play rugby.
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1313672277' post='4850739']
[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313609817' post='4850463']
7's is like 14 minutes of solid sprinting, I always thought it was harder than 15s in terms of fitness. My point was simply that if this guy can go from the bench to starting for the USA in a year, then it shows that it's more than achievable for someone from the NFL to "get in shape" at the international level. The beep test at his stage is 22 minutes long and he crushed all the competition, so clearly fitness isn't an issue.[/quote]
7's takes more of a different kind of fitness. You don't really have to pace yourself that much, which is exactly what you'd have to do in a union match. 7s is generally less technical as most of the time it's get the ball and run as fast as you can, which is right up an NFL player's alley.

Union takes a huge amount of field awareness, more positional skill, and a much deeper knowledge of the sport than 7s.

[quote]In terms of skills or body build, I think that's easily remediable. A year of training can do a lot in terms of skills, fitness level, and body composition. These guys are the most gifted athletes on the planet, it's why most of them were all-stars in multiple sports (ie baseball/football, track/basketball, etc.). Like I said, I think if we get a few people to get in there and show what they can do, we'll see more of it. I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.
[/quote]
They'd definitely be competitive, but I've played rugby against both tremendous athletes and non-athletic skilled rugby players. The less athletic skilled rugby players tended to completely kick our asses, and the more athletic people usually turned the game into more of a grind.

I'll agree that we could make up for our lack of skill with better athletes, but I'd prefer we just had more skill. Our athleticism isn't really our weak point as it stands right now; our problem is we have guys who've been playing rugby for 6 years holding down day jobs competing against guys who have been playing rugby for close to 20 who don't have to do anything but train to play rugby.
[/quote]

I can agree with that. Does it bug you that USA Rugby seems to only care about 7s lately? It's like they've given up on Union. Whenever I see Rugby on TV now it's either 7s or League, it really irks me.
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[quote name='ChurchSkiz' timestamp='1313609817' post='4850463']I'm kind of surprised already that other countries (like NZ and Australia) that actually pay their rugby players aren't already recruiting from the NFL or NCAA. I've played with enough ex-football players to know that a few months of regular play can make them competitive.[/quote]Not sure In Australia there's ~100,000 registered adult rugby players between league and union, and another ~100,000 registered adult Aussie-rules football players. Surely that's a big enough pool to scrape good talent out of without needing to scout players in other sports in other countries.

That said, the national union team is coached by a New Zealander though [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]
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One thing I noted at the time
I dont know if its a good idea to have the ireland vs the United states game on
11 september 2011, i.e. 10 years to the day of the twin towers. Now if I was a terrorist I'ld be circling that date/venue
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I'm going to necro this to point out that I'm enjoying the tournament a lot more than I thought I would. Might have something to do with Ireland's epic win over Australia :D, but even the "minnows" are entertaining. Go the Georgians, you guys are playing with real passion and physicality.

Also England look rubbish.... which probably means they'll win the damn thing :(
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yes go georgia
[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/bet1.jpg[/img]
though I was a bit worried when england scored those 2 tries near the end with 14mins left and only 10 points until I lose my bet.

Its been a very good tournament, esp for betting, Ive only lost 2 bets so far from the ~10 Ive stuck on, though one was 125:1 so I only lost $10 on that the other was $25 though.
I knew the matches were gonna be closer than the TAB/media have been predicting, the gap between the nations is becoming closer and closer like football.
I'ld still say this is NZs tourament to win, ~50% chance. I wouldnt put money on them though (bad return as its less than 2:1 )

I may go and cheer on USA next tuesday night against italy, I have a feeling the US might upset them

[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/bet2.jpg[/img]
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[quote name='zedz' timestamp='1316572329' post='4864059']
yes go georgia
[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/bet1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://anarchistsunited.com/crap/bet2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Can you explain what all of these mean? I have no idea how betting on rugby works :(

I gather the first one is betting on georgia to beat the spread on england, and the latter is betting on NZ to score a lot of tries, but I do not know what that number is by reading the ticket.

[quote]
I may go and cheer on USA next tuesday night against italy, I have a feeling the US might upset them[/quote]
o/

It is pretty much our best bet at a win besides russia in our group. I predict an australia upset though <_<

[sub]not srs...[/sub]
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1316573951' post='4864069']

It is pretty much our best bet at a win besides russia in our group. I predict an australia upset though <_<

[sub]not srs...[/sub]
[/quote]

Nah, go ahead and back yourselves! I will be having USA night at my house with ribs and burgers with some kiwi craft brewed American Pale Ale while I cheer you on against the convicts :P
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[quote]Can you explain what all of these mean? I have no idea how betting on rugby works [/quote]
its just the same as with any sport
for every dollar you best you get X amount of dollars back (if you win the bet) thus the first is 1.85:1 so 60*1.85 = $111 or $51 profit
I bet who would win if georgia had a 36.5 point headstart
thus final result england 41 vs georgia 10+36.5= 46.5
so georgia won

second is how many tries NZ will score in total
I bet $200 in total
and there are 3 possibilities
1. I win $230 if they score 40 or less
2. I win $530 if they score 41-44
3. I win $300 if they score 45 or more
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[quote name='zedz' timestamp='1316645299' post='4864431']
I bet $200 in total
and there are 3 possibilities
1. I win $230 if they score 40 or less
2. I win $530 if they score 41-44
3. I win $300 if they score 45 or more
[/quote]

what? No matter what you at least make $30?

I think the system just lost...
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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1316653852' post='4864484']
what? No matter what you at least make $30?

I think the system just lost...
[/quote]
yes thats what I always try to do with betting, bob each way. Its quite easy in cricket test matches (if you know what youre doing) to cover all 3 results sideA,sideB or draw so you make a profit no matter the result

USA +60.5 points tonight, actually theres even better bets than that (all favouring the USA) Ill have to stick some cash on
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[quote name='zedz' timestamp='1316715186' post='4864786']
[b]USA +60.5 points tonight[/b], actually theres even better bets than that (all favouring the USA) Ill have to stick some cash on
[/quote]

So close!
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