• Advertisement

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Food for thought!

This topic is 5996 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

I was thinking (duh) the other day, how come there aren''t more female coders? when i was in university, there were absolutely none. in the work force i have yet to meet any female who knowledge beyond some DOS scripting or VisualBasic skills. there are many women in other fields of I.T. why not programming? if am horribly mistaken, women PLEASE speak up! this is NOT meant to bash anyone, male or female, just utter curousity. hmmmmmmmm! To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
My girlfriend is currently studying Comp sci/Elec eng. She now has a general knowledge of c++, a little of c, etc. and she''s in 2nd year.

Of course she''s hoping to transfer to an aviation course next year....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m not female, but I did a paper on Women in Computing a few months ago. There is evidence to indicate that girls are from a young age encouraged not to flaunt thier intelligence, particularly in the sciences. Boys wont ask girls who are "braniacs" on dates. Also, teachers wont point to girls to ask questions in classes - get this - even if the girls have their hands up!

You can get a lot more information - statistics, evidence, programs - from the Advocates for Women in Science, Engineering and Mathematics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my theory is that they''re afraid they''ll be the only female in a classroom full of computer nerds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oddly enough
When I was getting my B.S. in electrical engineering there where two women in the EE department and neither one of them would even touch anything that had too do with programming. Also in the CS department there where three women and one really liked to program and wanted to go into the field but the other two said they could not stand programming (even though they where in the CS department)



Gaming is a way of life believe it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what do you mean boys wont ask brainy girls out on dates!?!?!?!?!

i would rather go out with a brainy girl then some airhead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what do you mean boys wont ask brainy girls out on dates!?!?!?!?!

i would rather go out with a brainy girl then some airhead broad with a nice body

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our CSCI 4050 (Game Programming) has about 40-50 people in it. I think two of them are female.

In the Computer Game Art class with which we work, however, the artist gender distribution is about even.

My conclusion: It''s not for lack of interest in computer games.

---
blahpers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i personally blame the adults & parents
they always seem to keep girls away from things they deem boyish(for lack of a better term)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Mad4Life
i personally blame the adults & parents
they always seem to keep girls away from things they deem boyish(for lack of a better term)


You hit it on the head. Girls are (generally) encouraged to go into the social sciences and the arts, but dissuaded from going into engineering by their parents and guidance counsellors in school. Computer Game Arts is okay - these days even web design is fine - because of the artistic aspects, but by and large girls are still being discriminated against (that''s what it really is) in the school system when it comes to technical/scientific disciplines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yay i got something right

how about we kill all the adults that discriminate, make the world a better place

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My girlfriend is an awesome coder, I know many females that see my skills and problem solving methods as being a programmer and want to learn from me, hence my girlfriend being a coder. I have converted 3 already I''ve got the gift =D

MOV AH,3h
INT 21Ch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m female. *shrug*

I started coding when I was about 8 years old, on a TI 99/4A. Now I do it for a living. I can''t imagine doing anything else.

I think it has a lot to do with what your parents teach you about your abilities, and whether or not you''re stubborn enough to stick up for your own intellect in school.

-fel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
any female that is willing to code with adults telling her not to do it is the girl of my dreams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by jenova
I was thinking (duh) the other day, how come there aren''t more female coders? when i was in university, there were absolutely none. in the work force i have yet to meet any female who knowledge beyond some DOS scripting or VisualBasic skills. there are many women in other fields of I.T. why not programming? if am horribly mistaken, women PLEASE speak up! this is NOT meant to bash anyone, male or female, just utter curousity.

hmmmmmmmm!

To the vast majority of mankind, nothing is more agreeable than to escape the need for mental exertion... To most people, nothing is more troublesome than the effort of thinking.


One of my friends, ( a female ) is one of the most popular Informix/SQL programmer in montreal. Another of my friends( another female ) is doing her masters in Comp. Sci. It just a matter of getting to know the right people.



"And that''s the bottom line cause I said so!"

Cyberdrek
Headhunter Soft
A division of DLC Multimedia

Resist Windows XP''s Invasive Production Activation Technology!

"gitty up" -- Kramer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Way back when I was in college (a few months ago) there were very few girls in our CS department. Not only could they not stand programming, they used the fact that they were the only females in a class full of computer geeks to their advantage... I personally know two of them had absolutely no CS skills when they graduated. It''s people like that that perpetuate the stereotypes that women should not do anything technical.

Having had the same girlfriend for my entire college career has saved me from their "spell" Concidentaly, my s.o. is not a coder, her passion is in the design of games (which she''s really good at), she leaves the grunt work to me

On the flip-side, another friend of mine (another female), graduated with a CS degree and was a coder for Microsoft on Windows CE (which is really cool IMHO). So there

---
PAGE FAULT: Please insert "Swap File, Disk 2"
and press any key to continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The fact that there are female coders, that you personally know some awesomely technical women - or even are one - doesn''t disprove the fact that there is an institutional prejudice against women in the sciences.

  • Women make up only 10% of mathematicians, 10% of computer scientists, and 6% of engineers.

  • Eighty-six percent of men work in fields related to science; only 25% of women do.

  • Nearly 75% of tomorrow’s jobs will require use of computers; fewer than 33% of participants in computer courses and related activities are girls. (JOBS)

  • 34% of high school aged girls report being advised by a faculty member not to take senior math. (NSF).

  • Women leave science and engineering careers twice as frequently as men (Brodie).

  • Women’s salaries in science and engineering lag behind men’s by 12 to 15% (Hollenshead).

  • 16% fewer girls than boys reported ever talking to their parents about science and technology issues (NSF).



References for further information on this issue:
quote:

Etzkowitz, Henry, Carol Kemelgor, Michael Neuschatz, Brian Uzzi. Barriers to Women in Academic Science and Engineering. In Willie Pearson Jr. and Irwin Fechter eds. Who Will Do Science? Educating the Next Generation, Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1994.

Compelling Reasons To Engage Girls In Science. Paper from the website of the Advocates for Women in Science, Engineering and Mathematics.

US Labor Statistics: JOBS 2000.

The National Science Foundation. Women, Minorities, and People with Disabilities in Science and Engineering: 1994. NSF 94-333, 1994.

Michael J. Brodie. "Advancing Women Through Engineering." Career Engineering, Vol. 4, No. 6, June 1996: 5.

Carol Hollenshead et al. The Equity Agenda: women in Science, Mathematics and Engineering. Ann Arbor, MI: Center for the Education of Women, 1995.

The National Science Foundation. Women, Minorities, and People with Disabilities in Science and Engineering: 1994. NSF 94-333, 1994.

Mary Antony. "Gender and Science: A Review of the Research Literature," Programs for Educational Opportunity Equity Coalition. Fall 1993-Spring 1994.

Pearl, Pollack, Riskin, Thomas, Wolf and Wu, "Becoming a Computer Scientist," Communications of the ACM, Vol.33, No.11, November, 1990.



There is a problem. Let''s face it. Together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi
I have worked in a company in which we had a girl (BS in computer eng) workmate. She was smart and skilled at OOP programming. She was a master in C++/Java. I was to train some game programming to her
She was the only girl i''ve ever seen who i can call a Real Programmer.
I think the reason why there are a few girls in game programming industry is : We boys and men are kidding but girls are usualy more serious and have a deeper thought on life. this is why they are not interested in GAMES which seem to be for fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Simply put, different people have different interests.

I knew girls in college that were forced into engineering because people thought they should be in engineering, not because of any desire on their part. They were miserable.

We must be careful to encourage without forcing. My parents were great at encouraging me to try whatever I wanted. They would have supported me saying I just wanted to get married and be a fulltime mom just as enthusiastically as they supported my engineering pursuits.

My sisters are a physical therapist, an art history major (she plans to be a museum curator eventually), and a premed student who is actually considering software engineering as an alternative to her current course of study.

We need to look at the reasons behind the numbers. Numbers can be our allies, but they can also mislead us. For instance, I could say "35 people died in Denver last night". What does that mean? Is it a terrible tragedy, a fire perhaps, or did they die of old age? Is Denver just an unsafe place to live because people are dying here, or is it just normal life expectancy taking its toll?

The important thing is whether or not those girls ever showed any interest in engineering. I know myself, and I know my mind. I am aware that my mind works much differently than the majority of the females I knew growing up. It works differently from the majority of males as well, though there were more males with my intellect type than females. Does this mean that the females were badly developed, or does it just mean that their brains worked differently? Is the fact that I can''t draw to save my life due to something wrong with me, or is it just the fact that my talent is programming and music, not art, and my friends have a talent in art but not programming and music?

We already have medical evidence that female brains work differently than male. Sure, some of it is probably age-old truisms about what girls are good at it, but perhaps there will never be equality in certain walks of life due simply to the fact that our brains work differently, and certain genders are more (more, not entirely but more) predisposed to certain types of skills than others.

-fel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a girlfriend. (OK settle down in the back!) Just to add to the fire pit, my girlfriend doesn’t program. She has written some HTML, but that's not my point. She's interested in learning how to program. (Or maybe she's just trying to relate to me, I don't claim to understand her beautiful intellectual, at most I try to apperciate it) She just doesn’t have time. She likes other things, and I've made a conclusion about programming.

Almost every decent programmer I've ever met always says they spend a great deal of their life doing it. Now I don't want to want to assume anything, but most female members I know like to do lots of things at once. I could never see my girlfriend doing just one thing! All the women I know... well, seem to exhibit the same quality. (This isn't to say they all do!) My point is, if you want to be programmer you have to focus on it (I've been told I have a natural gift for it, and I still spend lots of time doing it!). It's not like biology when things remain the same after you learn them. I'm not saying women would be worse or better programmers, I'm saying some of the best candidates simply aren't interested. Of course I hope people will take this last note and think on it.

There are probably MANY female programmers. If there is 1 female per 100 male programmers, that's probably over 50 000. That's alot. Sure there are over 2 million male programmers (I know I read that's what the current estimate is, if anyone knows the magazine this is mentioned in, please post it =)

Anyway's, I'm done taking a dangerous tone with generalisations. If I've offended anyone, please understand, I'm just looking for the trends, not to be an sexist pig =)

"So little time, so much fun."
~Michael Sikora


Edited by - guardian_light on September 21, 2001 4:44:34 PM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a male:

Female brains do not only work differently then males, but they work better.



"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
aye their brains prolly do work better then ours

as to the women cant focus on one thing is totally false in my opinion, they focuz on guys( dam hoes)

no offense to u females that arent hoes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
quote:
Original post by Mad4Life
aye their brains prolly do work better then ours

as to the women cant focus on one thing is totally false in my opinion, they focuz on guys( dam hoes)

no offense to u females that arent hoes


You need to take a class on respect, fool.

Who are you to judge what a so called "hoe" is? I use a "hoe" in the garden sometimes, if thats what you mean... But I think I know what you mean, and, maybe one day AFTER your teenage years you will learn better.

And, you are an example of why womens brains work better than mens...

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Advertisement