Sign in to follow this  
Discount_Flunky

Hows this for a leveling system


Recommended Posts

[size="3"][font="Calibri"]I've been experimenting with a leveling system were the xp required to level up eventually gets really high but it's not impossible to reach. It's a 0-100 level system. I have attached a table and a graph here that shows the progression. I'm wondering if the xp amounts required to level are too high or too small. Although the numbers look big they might actually be too small because killing a high end enemy can yield 1000+ xp, and you get xp for successful crafting attempts and such. In fact since I want every play style to be rewarded almost everything you do gives you xp so maybe it needs to be way higher.

[/font][/size]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Tiblanc' timestamp='1317240764' post='4866933']
You're doing it backwards. Xp to next level is derived from how much xp per time unit the player can get(time to kill something, craft, etc) and how long you want each level to last.
[/quote]


Well I'm hoping by making each level take much more xp then the one before each one will take longer to get, but the thing is as time goes on the player will be able to get xp much faster than they could before. I'm not sure were the balance is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Then you need to figure out what activities the player will be doing at each level and how much xp/time these will reward. There are many ways to do this and they don't always involve increasing xp to next level. It's a result of the design goals, not the basis of the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Decide how long do you want the player to stay at each level. Then take into consideration all the activities that yield EXP. Create a blend and adjust the values so that you achieve the minimum time it takes to level. Grindtest and prototype.

Upfront, for all you know, you could draw a graph in the shape of a rhino, it will be as valid as anything else :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ya it sounds like it will take a while to get it right. The reason I'm going this now though is that I really want to get the leveling scale out too the programmers, because so many other things depend on the leveling system, such as [font="Calibri"][size="2"][color="#1c2837"]enemy[/color][/size][/font] NPC stats and PC hp. I could try using an formula as was suggested, since I already have lots of formulas for the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Basically, toss "anything" in, and keep ready to balance them later.
That's possibly one of the last things you'll want to balance, thus, its pointless to start with this now.
Tiblanc is perfectly right: you are doing it backwards.


@Zethariel
I would be tempted to agree with the formula part, but recent games have proven successful with 'handcrafted' level tables (quite ironically).
Very present in social games to keep the level field uneven, but it seems to work better with games where leveling is not the main focus...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Orymus' timestamp='1317299109' post='4867165']
I would be tempted to agree with the formula part, but recent games have proven successful with 'handcrafted' level tables (quite ironically).
Very present in social games to keep the level field uneven, but it seems to work better with games where leveling is not the main focus...
[/quote]

All is well as long as you have time as a developer/designer to handcrat. Unless we are talking about changes during future patches that fine-tune the game -- whatever the approach, empyrical testing and tweaking is a must. Arbitrary numbers are good as a start point, but those too have to be based on tanglible data points, such as concrete EXP values gained from activities or the amount of activities that should be divided into level groups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Orymus' timestamp='1317299109' post='4867165']but recent games have proven successful with 'handcrafted' level tables (quite ironically).[/quote]Really? Which ones (except for AD&D where it is done for the purpose of compatibility with the orignal Pen&Paper RPG system, not for gameplay or mechanics)?

Is there any benefit for handcrafing these? I mean, you will handcraft either liner or a curve shape anyway, so why not use a formula for this and forget all the hassle? Handcrafted table would make sense if there were some oddities (like suddenly after level X the requirements become linear instead of progressive or the shape of the curve changes), but I don't recall any game that had such oddity nor I can think of any benefit of implementing such oddity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Acharis' timestamp='1317301525' post='4867178']
[quote name='Orymus' timestamp='1317299109' post='4867165']but recent games have proven successful with 'handcrafted' level tables (quite ironically).[/quote]Really? Which ones (except for AD&D where it is done for the purpose of compatibility with the orignal Pen&Paper RPG system, not for gameplay or mechanics)?

Is there any benefit for handcrafing these? I mean, you will handcraft either liner or a curve shape anyway, so why not use a formula for this and forget all the hassle? Handcrafted table would make sense if there were some oddities (like suddenly after level X the requirements become linear instead of progressive or the shape of the curve changes), but I don't recall any game that had such oddity nor I can think of any benefit of implementing such oddity.
[/quote]

I don't know about most of the stuff you said (as it's a question to someone else), but you do bring up a good point. No matter how you do a hand crafted xp system your going to get something that looks nearly liner or parabolic. I made mine by hand and when I grafted it I got basically a exponential curve of sorts. (It's on the paper). A formula really would have been easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[size=2]Mypersonal preference these days is fixed exp systems where each level takes thesame amount of exp. For example it could 1000exp.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]Ifthe exp rewards are also fixed with scaling for enemies it makes things niceand repeatable and recognisable. You can then have a simple exp table forenemies like the one below:[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]Weak:5 xp[/size]

[size=2]Common:10 xp[/size]

[size=2]Heavy:25 xp[/size]

[size=2]Champion:125 xp[/size]

[size=2]Elite:250 xp[/size]

[size=2]Boss:1000 xp.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]Addin a scaling system like +- 25% per level difference. and you have nicesimple levelling system.[/size]

[size=2] [/size]

[size=2]AlsoI'm a fan of less but more meaningful levels.[/size]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally like it but theres not enough gaps-1000 is not enough in those high levels, it popularly is around 1000points about the teen LVLs. Plus i dont think usually video games are so 5-0 squared with XP numbers. Like LVL29-LVL30 4796 points LVL49-LVL50 13444 points. The latter sentence is not an issue however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='justdashplease' timestamp='1317428744' post='4867799']
I personally like it but theres not enough gaps-1000 is not enough in those high levels, it popularly is around 1000points about the teen LVLs. Plus i dont think usually video games are so 5-0 squared with XP numbers. Like LVL29-LVL30 4796 points LVL49-LVL50 13444 points. The latter sentence is not an issue however.
[/quote]

Each level shows how much they have to get for each level starting form zero. Not how much total xp the person will have at that level. For instance if it says lvl 40 is 30000 xp and lvl 41 31000 that means that once they get lvl 40 they must get 31,000 xp again to get to lvl 41. Basically lvl 41 would take exactly as much effort to get as lvl 40 plus how ever much effort 1000xp is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually what I was thinking was that it takes 1000 exp to go up any level. So its 1000 from level 2 to 3 and 1000 to go from 50 to 51.

Killing enemies who are lower level to you reduces the exp gain and killing enemies higher level then you gives a bonus.

In this way it takes the same effort to go up any level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I really like the idea of fixed exp for levels, 1000XP is great. FFVIII did it, and some other games too. I think it's more elegant and it's easier to control how often you want them to level up, and it's easier to balance(I think).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='TechnoGoth' timestamp='1317476426' post='4867964']
Actually what I was thinking was that it takes 1000 exp to go up any level. So its 1000 from level 2 to 3 and 1000 to go from 50 to 51.

Killing enemies who are lower level to you reduces the exp gain and killing enemies higher level then you gives a bonus.

In this way it takes the same effort to go up any level.
[/quote]

[quote name='Awennor' timestamp='1317491876' post='4868030']
I really like the idea of fixed exp for levels, 1000XP is great. FFVIII did it, and some other games too. I think it's more elegant and it's easier to control how often you want them to level up, and it's easier to balance(I think).
[/quote]
This was also implemented in .hack G.U (ps2).

Some gameboy games also used such a method. They made exp needed to lvl up static, while making the exp gained dynamic. I dont know the math but defeating a character of higher lvl game more exp than someone at lower lvl to a minimum of 1. For example: Tactics Ogre: The knight of Lodis & the FF tactics series.

I find it more comfortable than the others. A high exp need amount just discourages me provided that methods of gaining exp is lame.
But if it's fun, that's another story. Soul Nomad & the World Eaters (ps2) has a lvl limit of 9999! But I just love the fighting :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm generally in favour of the fixed exp. The Paper Mario series pulled it off very nicely, with each level requiring 100 exp, and a boss enemy giving around 30 exp when defeated.

Generally, this is easier to pull off when your game is linear, because that means you can simply divide the enemies in groups of 'common', 'rare', 'boss' and so on wherever you go. If it's possible to go back, i would recommend the increasing exp, since it's probably less effort than making them give less exp as you become stronger. (and easier to balance)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this