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Aluthreney

HTML5

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Does anyone know where I can find a good beginners HTML5 tutorial. Not one that only explains the new features of HTML5, but one that teaches everything?

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HTML5 doesn't exist yet. It's scheduled to be finalized in 3-4 years, but it's unlikely it ever will be, or that by the time it will even be relevant. Since different proposed core technologies were boycotted by various browser vendors, a consensus on crucial features isn't possible. Considering the stakes of technologies such as video or database, they never will be.

Right now, the HTML5 related work includes various proposals for various extensions and additions. These exist in various stages of implementation and formalization in various browsers as experimental features.

There is no "everything", it completely depends on browser versions (features change, are enable or disabled, break unpredictably).

Wikipedia lists proposals, their current state then needs to be checked against desired browser versions. This is somewhat difficult, considering they tend to change every few weeks.


Put differently, HTML5 is a marketing term. To use various features, select the browsers, then compare their current state of proposed future APIs. Be prepared to for updates each time new version of a browser is released (every 6 weeks or so).

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Antheus, you have a pretty questionable opinion of HTML5. Firstly, it's not just a marketing term. It is the next iteration of the HTML standard. It may not be finalised yet, but that is irrelevant. Things aren't going to change drastically, and in the end, it only matters what the browser vendors are supporting, and they are supporting it. Unless you are using Internet Explorer 6 or an equally outdated POS user agent, you should have support for the majority of HTML5 and CSS3 features, which are already being used on some of the most popular websites by millions of people, and have been for some time. You aren't going to have wait 3-4 years for HTML5. It's here, now. Yes, new features are being added all the time. Firefox is in a 6 week release cycle, but that is really nothing new.

As for OP, you can use this as a reference for the markup side of HTML5. http://www.w3schools.com/html5/html5_reference.asp

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It may not be finalised yet, but that is irrelevant.


HTML5 specification is proposed to be a standard, which is precisely that. Not finalized.

Otherwise, HTML5 is a marketing term. Handwaving. Because it's not relevant what it means. It's like zombo.com. You can be anything at zombo.com.

Things aren't going to change drastically, and in the end, it only matters what the browser vendors are supporting, and they are supporting it.[/quote]
Supporting what?

How can they support something that isn't defined? Unless they are using marketing term. Because one cannot support a standard which will be defined in 3 years.

you should have support for the majority of HTML5 and CSS3 features, which are already being used on some of the most popular websites by millions of people, and have been for some time. You aren't going to have wait 3-4 years for HTML5. It's here, now.[/quote]

"... you might already be a winner. For a low low price of $99.95, fill out the form and see if you too are part of the HTML5 family and join the millions priviliged to experience the sights, the sounds, the experience and beauty that is HTML5."


There is no HTML5. There are proposed extensions and some sites are making use of some of current implementations. They are using the term HTML5 for marketing purposes. Because "proposed revision of HTML standards family" simply doesn't sound all that cool.

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Antheus, you obviously aren't a web developer, and if you are one, you are a very misinformed one. I think it would be better if you didn't go around filling people like Aluthreney heads up with nonsense. HTML5 is here to say, and it is not going to drastically change. If you think otherwise, you are being impractical and crazy. If you want to wait up to 3-4 years for a document (that looks 99% identical to the current draft) to be rubber stamped by W3C, then by all means, just wait around here in the mud. The rest of the world will be laughing furiously at you because of your tinfoil hat wearing.

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OK. Where is this overview of entire HTML5 then?

I'd really love to know.

Because right now, the information I need is scattered between W3C and WHATWG specs, developer documentation of each browser developer, various blogs, and the most useful parts come from sites like quirksmode. Then there is a ton of "HTML5, but only works on Chrome 13.24123b dev build" libraries on github, various blogs showing off latest techniques that end up broken 2 months after they were published and random forum posts. In development, anything CSS will be --webkit and similar mess. Oh, just use Less.

And if w3cschools is the answer, then may god have mercy on our souls.

For some reason, there is this huge reality disconnect going on. "It will be supported". Maybe I am crazy, but I need stuff that works today.

Instead, anytime anyone asks anything beyond even remotely basic about anything HTML5 related, it's always the same: "it's the greatest thing, it does everything, it's here today, use it". But then walks away when I ask: "Where".

Show me. And hopefully something more than just <footer> and <header> and <navbar>. These are worthless, they are part of every single freekin site 1995, they just got an extra tag.

Show me how HTML5 now suddenly changes everything. I'll also say here that I still find tables incredibly useful for layout, since they just work, even on 10 year old browsers. What is this new thing that HTML5 brings? Or maybe it's just that my needs are slightly more advanced than just worrying about which tag is fashionable to use for such tasks.

Or should we finally give up on notion of anything and resign that software development is fashion industry and it's all about looks but no substance.

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I'll also say here that I still find tables incredibly useful for layout, since they just work, even on 10 year old browsers. What is this new thing that HTML5 brings? Or maybe it's just that my needs are slightly more advanced than just worrying about which tag is fashionable to use for such tasks.


Well there is your problem. You haven't even discovered CSS and you are targeting 10 year old browsers. You really have been left behind. You can't comprehend the next iteration of web development because you don't even understand the current one. If you haven't learned to separate your content from presentation, you really are living in the stone ages of web development.

Tags like <article> make documents more friendly for indexing, but are hardly the most exciting thing in the HTML5 basket. Canvas and Video are probably the most important things, because for the first time it is possible to drop all ties to flash. Having to rely on a 3rd party plugin from Adobe to use the internet for anything interesting has been the biggest damn shame of the last decade. 90% of the use of flash has probably been simply for embedding videos into web pages. The video tag takes care of that need, and canvas does the rest.

The biggest reason to use HTML5 today is forward compatibility. It works in all modern browsers today, and it will continue to work in modern browsers for years to come. Even Microsoft is a supporter of HTML5. It's surprising just how much even IE9 supports, and Windows 8 is using HTML5 as one of it's markups for "immersive" applications.

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Well there is your problem. You haven't even discovered CSS and you are targeting 10 year old browsers.

Unfortunately, it's not just Antheus' problem. Corporate policy in particular means old browsers will have to be supported for a while in a lot of code.

You really have been left behind.[/quote]
It can be more a case of web developers leaving clients behind. Sure at some point they need a nudge, but if you can write code that functions perfectly well on IE6 through to the latest builds of Chrome, you've potentially got something of more value than blindly building something against HTML5, whatever that really means at this point.

You can't comprehend the next iteration of web development because you don't even understand the current one.[/quote]
It looks more like a healthy distrust of hype than a lack of understanding to me.

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It looks more like a healthy distrust of hype than a lack of understanding to me.


Indeed, over the past 15 years I've lost track of the number of 'next big thing!'s which have happened... man, I remember when Java was meant to be the cure for all our ills, offering compile once-run anywhere code from desktop to browser...

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It can be more a case of web developers leaving clients behind. Sure at some point they need a nudge, but if you can write code that functions perfectly well on IE6 through to the latest builds of Chrome, you've potentially got something of more value than blindly building something against HTML5, whatever that really means at this point.


IMO it depends on your user base. If you are a HTML monkey working for some stuffy corporation, you may very well be bound by some stupid policy that says every page needs to render correctly in even IE5 and Mosaic.

The fact is though, that everyone on this planet with an internet connection has access to a modern web browser and they are only at most 3 clicks away.

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