First, this is a discussion about the difference between a master's degree and bachelor's degree.

Please don't derail it too far.

I think educational requirements is another feature that the industry failed.

You don't need a degree to write games.
You don't need a degree to draw game art.
You don't need a degree to program software.

Correct. You do not strictly need a degree.

Instead, you need certain levels of skill and education.

A motivated individual can certainly teach themselves what they need instead of going through a bachelor's program. Unfortunately, most teens have no clue of what they actually need until they have gained a few more decades of life experience. Will you pick up all those difficult concepts of linear algebra, discrete mathematics, and calculus that are the mainstay of excellent programmers? Will you study the theory topics that will let you reduce an unknown or very difficult problem into one you know how to solve quickly?

There is much to learn, and it takes dedication to learn the important subjects that you are not inclined to study on your own.



Further, when it comes to employment, you are not in a vacuum. You must compete against others.

A degree does not say that you can do the job. But a degree provides a standard measuring stick that says you have a certain minimum amount of knowledge. Hence the term "graduate". For an employer, it is MUCH easier to require a degree, which is evidence of a particular skill set, than to trust your luck.


Yes, there are people in the industry who do not have degrees. Most of the notable entries started programming games professionally in the 1970s, and 1980s. That was a time when there were few CS programs out there so few people needed the degrees. Games were a lot simpler, often hacked together by one or two or rarely three people. These days CS programs are commonplace. Games are collaborations of large teams that can reach into the hundreds.

Yes, a few people still write their own games and prove that they have the skills necessary to perform well in the modern world, but it is rare. It is non-traditional, and it is extremely difficult. In the early days it was probably close to 1:10 not having a degree in something; most people had degrees in math or computer engineering or electrical engineering or related topics. Today you are looking at 1:100 or even 1:1000 ratio these days.

You can break in to this industry without a degree. But it will be incredibly difficult. You need to come up with some extremely powerful evidence that actually proves you can do the job.

There comes a point in time when you can say for yourself that you are what you are. People did not believe in me, but I think its because they fail in tasks I claim to have completed.[/quote]
Yes. That time generally comes after a decade or so of real work.

I remember reading that the ex-prime minister of Great Britain, Tony Blair, did not finish his degree in Law (Oxford or Cambridge). There are many successful people who did not complete education, why should it be the same for games? [/quote]
Tony Blair graduated from Oxford, so not sure where you got that from.

As for those who are successful without school, they are the exceptions.

Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg both dropped out of Harvard and became successes a few years later.

So after you get accepted to Harvard, and have taken classes for a year or so, and realized that even the standards of Harvard are too little for you, then feel free to drop out and start your own venture.


John Carmack is an oft-cited game person who didn't have a degree. He had a perfect GPA through school (what is yours?) self-taught himself advanced mathematics and CS topics. He went to two semesters at his state University, and left. He floundered for a while with jobs at apple and other places, and struggled to find a job due to a lack of degree. Eventually he landed a job that let him wrote games. Even today many of his algorithms require graduate-level maths to understand.

I suppose the moral is that if you have self-taught yourself calculus and linear algebra, and have tinkered enough with hardware to be able to push the hardware to its limits for a decade with heavily-optimized code, and you have the knowledge in CS that you can create your own multitasking operating system from scratch (that was the biggest technical feat of the original DOOM engine)... In that case, then sure, you can be like Carmack and skip the degree.

So for employers who are critical of applicants ...
1) if you don't trust person A (who has a degree) without a degree then a) consider that you are racist.
2) if you trust person B (who does not have a degree) if they had a degree but not otherwise then consider that you have your wires crossed.
3) Ask yourself if you trust yourself in the situations then realize that you assume your own superiority (they cannot believe others can do what they cannot).
[/quote]

1) It isn't a matter of trust or racism. One person has an unknown background, the other has a known background. Businesses are risk averse, and will prefer the known.
2) It isn't a matter of trust. It is a simple matter of risk. One person has a known minimum standard of education, the other is unknown.
3) It isn't a matter of superiority. It is a simple matter of risk.

[quote name='Access_Denied' timestamp='1319061739' post='4874466']
1) if you don't trust person A (who has a degree) without a degree then a) consider that you are racist.

The word "racist" is not applicable. A better word for expressing your point of view on this would be "elitist."
[/quote]



ok so they just have the same haircut?

By the way, are there any Brits reading this? I had a huge argument on another forum with a guy who insisted that British game companies don't care about degrees. That this whole thing [about degrees being tantamount to a requirement for game jobs (above QA)] is entirely an American phenomenon. Any Brits want to chime in?

I took that thread and turned it into a column:
http://www.igda.org/...-september-2011

I'm British and I applied for jobs for the position of programmer in the games industry via an agency. The interviews were hard, they asked very technical questions while not seeming to understand what I talked about ... i.e. so you either have to be able to answer technical questions very seriously without batting an eyelid when they do not seem to understand or you have to answer technical questions while making sure they understand.

In evaluating a candidate for a design position, a degree in design is evidence that you might be able to do the job. But it is a single factor in the whole package. If that is all you have, it is probably not enough. If you have a degree, a portfolio of work illustrating what you can do, and you interview well, your chances are much better. A degree in design says that you are probably interested in design and have invested time and effort to learn about it. This is good, right? But that is the extent of it. It does not answer the question, "can this person do the job?" That is why a degree is almost never enough by itself.

The best way to become a game designer is to design games. Everything else is a buff.

There is something to be said for the explosion of casual games though. It's a lower but still professional level in for new game designers. What Tom says still definitely applies to the majority of cases, and even more so for AAA developers, but with so many casual studios who are about quantity and qualify with short development cycles it's not impossible for a designer to be an entry level job. Of course without a portfolio you're still fairly doomed.