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AnoopToor

A few Questions

8 posts in this topic

Hello, Im 16 and I know the basics of programming

I'm learning it in school currently, but their teaching me VB 6... which is very old. So i was wondering what i could do at home that would help me to get to my goal of making a game and not mak my IT efforts pointless. find the class work really easy, and it seems im the only one who does


What should language to start with?

and lastly

my friend wants to start programming paticulary for games

any ideas for books?(i gotta get him a birthday gift)
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In programming there are many languages any language is good, For you since you only have used VB6 i would recommend starting with a easy language. I would recommend C# as a starting language as it is way more easy, Many people would say the same answers but, My advice would be "NEVER" use C++ as your first language, I first chose it and unfortunately it was too difficult for me, I had to drop using c++ and i went back learning C# and then a bit Python and then came back to C++ after 2 years and here i am still seeking help sometimes on GameDev.net, I choose the wrong path, I don't want you to do it. Choose which suits for you, try grasping through gamedev's forums and you can get a lot of information about which language to choose and there are many articles which help you guide through the best language to choose, As far as i know i would not recommend C++.

[quote]What should language to start with?[/quote]
As i said before any language except C++ would do great, Here's some languages choose from it.
C#, Python, Delphi, Java, Ruby, well i don't know a lot programming languages, Don't worry other people might help you with it.

[quote]my friend wants to start programming paticulary for games[/quote]
If you want to choose the path for game programming i would say there are many libraries to use. As for now id reckon that using XNA with C# and Pygame with Python would be the best, it's best on which language you choose.
Never forget this, If you're game programming, never lose patience, And don't jump into game programming until you are sure that you know all the basics of programming of that language. Always try to make your game sweet and also short. Don't try to jump in and start to think of making the most awesome 3D game in the world and all you end up is with a junk of half used code, So never forget all the indie games and all the 2D games, It's fun to make and also it makes the users the feeling that they have made a game and even though it looks a bit weird to others it might look like precious gold to you. You have spent a lot of time on it and you feel how precious it is.

[quote]any ideas for books?(i gotta get him a birthday gift)[/quote]
I think i misunderstood your post, Are you trying to learn game programming or your friend is, I'm sorry i think i didn't read, if so make your friend read this post.
Anyways for books, there are many local book stores which sell books regarding programming languages and also gaming, I'm afraid i don't know a lot about books, i reckon you wait for my GameDev friends to reply for books. Sorry.

Peace and good luck in your programming.
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[quote name='JustinDaniel' timestamp='1319172039' post='4874921']
In programming there are many languages any language is good, For you since you only have used VB6 i would recommend starting with a easy language. I would recommend C# as a starting language as it is way more easy, Many people would say the same answers but, My advice would be "NEVER" use C++ as your first language, I first chose it and unfortunately it was too difficult for me, I had to drop using c++ and i went back learning C# and then a bit Python and then came back to C++ after 2 years and here i am still seeking help sometimes on GameDev.net, I choose the wrong path, I don't want you to do it. Choose which suits for you, try grasping through gamedev's forums and you can get a lot of information about which language to choose and there are many articles which help you guide through the best language to choose, As far as i know i would not recommend C++.

[quote]What should language to start with?[/quote]
As i said before any language except C++ would do great, Here's some languages choose from it.
C#, Python, Delphi, Java, Ruby, well i don't know a lot programming languages, Don't worry other people might help you with it.

[quote]my friend wants to start programming paticulary for games[/quote]
If you want to choose the path for game programming i would say there are many libraries to use. As for now id reckon that using XNA with C# and Pygame with Python would be the best, it's best on which language you choose.
Never forget this, If you're game programming, never lose patience, And don't jump into game programming until you are sure that you know all the basics of programming of that language. Always try to make your game sweet and also short. Don't try to jump in and start to think of making the most awesome 3D game in the world and all you end up is with a junk of half used code, So never forget all the indie games and all the 2D games, It's fun to make and also it makes the users the feeling that they have made a game and even though it looks a bit weird to others it might look like precious gold to you. You have spent a lot of time on it and you feel how precious it is.

[quote]any ideas for books?(i gotta get him a birthday gift)[/quote]
I think i misunderstood your post, Are you trying to learn game programming or your friend is, I'm sorry i think i didn't read, if so make your friend read this post.
Anyways for books, there are many local book stores which sell books regarding programming languages and also gaming, I'm afraid i don't know a lot about books, i reckon you wait for my GameDev friends to reply for books. Sorry.

Peace and good luck in your programming.
[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback, extremely helpful.

I think ill pursue python with pygame.... im not sure which one is better....

it is it better to pusue C#?

I was thinking about ActionScript 3.0? is that a bad idea... should i just do python/C#?

any online tutorials you could point me too for python with pygame or C#?

Am i overthinking this .... should i just choose something?
thanks anoop
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[quote]I think ill pursue python with pygame.... im not sure which one is better....[/quote]
Anoop as i said before any language is worth it, As a beginner you should concentrate only on learning.

[quote]it is it better to pusue C#?[/quote]
C# is a good language for a beginner and is easy to learn, You can grasp all the basics easily, It's up to you to choose which language.

[quote]I was thinking about ActionScript 3.0? is that a bad idea... should i just do python/C#?[/quote]
Sorry but i lack information about ActionScript, as far as i know Python would be a better language and a user friendly language to learn and it is easy to learn to, Python gives a strong firm and Pygame is well suited for indie games and 2D games. It is an effective approach to OO programming.

[quote]any online tutorials you could point me too for python with pygame or C#?[/quote]
For python try the documentation [url="http://docs.python.org/tutorial/"]http://docs.python.org/tutorial/[/url] and also maybe [url="http://sthurlow.com/python/"]http://sthurlow.com/python/[/url] Try Googling, it is always free and doesn't take a lot time.

[quote]Am i overthinking this .... should i just choose something?[/quote]
Your not, your just confusing yourself on what language to choose but it doesn't matter at all, As a beginner you have to focus only on learning not on wasting time on choosing a language. It's all upto you.
From my side, [b]
Python it is.
[/b]
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This might sound a bit weird, but Matlab, in my opinion, is a great environment to work in as a beginner. Here's why:

Amazing debugging environment:
In traditional environments, there's always a feeling that you gotta infer a lotta stuff while debugging because some things are just not exposed (or very hard to get to). Matlab has a unique combination of language and environment that makes debugging in it a joy. When debugging, you can look at variables, plot any data, do arbitrary things with data, ... basically anything that you can imagine.

Interactive development workflow
You mostly prototype with a interactive prompt, and put finalized code in function/script files. No clunky startup/compile/stub stuff. Just type stuff and test.

Awesome linear algebre support:
Lots of helper functions, shortcuts, syntax sugar for working with matrices. Awesome!

For quite a while now, I pretty much use matlab exclusively. I develop in Matlab, and translate the code over to C++/HLSL once I'm done.
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[quote name='anoop99' timestamp='1319166332' post='4874905']
Hello, Im 16 and I know the basics of programming

I'm learning it in school currently, but their teaching me VB 6... which is very old. So i was wondering what i could do at home that would help me to get to my goal of making a game and not mak my IT efforts pointless. find the class work really easy, and it seems im the only one who does


What should language to start with?
[/quote]
When i was 16 i programmed VB6 too. I kept at it for 4 years before i switched to java, then C++. It's simple, good to learn programming with as it hides all the more essential things that some other languages forces you to deal with: compilers, included headers, separate source files, libraries and setting up helper frameworks. So all the way up to object-based functionality, I actually think it's a great, simple language to learn with.
Come back when you aced a bunch of vb6 games, and then change language. Because you might want more from a language in the long run.
-Or you could change language now and deal with setting up an entire development environment.

Either way, if you're interested in comparing languages, you should follow Sloper's advice and read the forum sticky.


[quote name='anoop99' timestamp='1319166332' post='4874905']
and lastly

my friend wants to start programming paticulary for games

any ideas for books?(i gotta get him a birthday gift)
[/quote]
Teach him general programming twice a week after school for a month, then create a little game together. If he's still interested afterwards, he earns a book! [img]http://public.gamedev.net/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]

[quote name='JustinDaniel' timestamp='1319172039' post='4874921']
[quote]What should language to start with?[/quote]
As i said before any language except C++ would do great, Here's some languages choose from it.
C#, Python, Delphi, Java, Ruby, well i don't know a lot programming languages, Don't worry other people might help you with it.
[/quote]
I strongly advice against starting out with delphi. It's syntax is off, and even the most recent IDEs (which are proprietary) are extremely buggy,

And it's advantages are very similar to the ones of VB6. -Stick with VB6 for now.
It's true that C++ is difficult to start out with, but don't let that scare you to do a little programming in that.
You're experimenting with languages, and it's normal to experiment when in college.
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I will go straight out and say "Programming in VB 6 is bad for you". People used to always defend VB and it had it's points, but point blank that language just encourages so many bad programming habits that it really shouldn't be the language to start a beginner on. If you learn from day one to seperate your logic from your view, it will be intrinsic to the way you develop going forward; VB6 however encourages exactly the opposite. As it is a dead end language now, and VB.net is just C# in a pretty dress, you are even learning a syntax that is pretty much a dead end.

I know the OP has no control over the use of VB6, but I am just stating this in contrast to the advice to keep using it at home.

The subject itself is long and beyond soliciting peoples personal opinions, can't really be addressed properly in a forum posting, so I wrote [url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/08/04/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx"]this guide[/url]. It covers most of your language options, plus initial library and learning recommendations for each language.

The truth of the matter is, none of us can answer this question for you. Programming is one of those very individual things, so so languages might be great for some people, drive others nuts. People swear by Python, but I personally just don't take to it. The same goes with just about every language option out there. You need a foundation in the basics of programming ( which VB6 will teach you ), then you basically need to try languages until one clicks. The skillset mostly transfers from language to language, so even if you hit a dead end, you aren't really wasting your time.


As to opinions, personally if it was me starting out today, I would go with C#. The syntax is very similar to C/C++/Java/Javascript/etc, so you can move between languages pretty easily, but the tool chain is a thousand times better than C++ and a thousand times more straight forward than Java, which is a big deal when you are getting started. That said, Python, Ruby, Java, DarkBasic, etc... are all perfectly valid starting points, for various different reasons.

One last thing to cover, people are saying that C# is a great beginners langauge, don't read that as a language for beginners, it is a very powerful language and is my goto language after over 20 years coding.
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[quote name='anoop99' timestamp='1319172900' post='4874922']
I was thinking about ActionScript 3.0? is that a bad idea... should i just do python/C#?
[/quote]

ActionScript is primarily used as the scripting language for Flash and its definitly a good option regardless of your skill level. Flash is installed on almost all computers and flash games can be played directly in the users browser without installation, There are also a few flash game portals out there that you can submit your games to in order to make a little bit of extra cash through ads without increasing the amount of work required on your end)
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