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Acharis

Problem with skills

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The player is a craftsman (low production volume) and spends stamina (which represents time) and resources to make things (let's say, bricks). The items are always identical quality.

Now, how to make skills effects (like brickmaker level 3)? The skill can not affect quality (bricks are always the some quality), can't affect resources spend (not very realistic, plus the numbers are low) and letting the player do it "faster/easier" is not good because stamina cost is low too (stamina cost is like 3).

In short the basic formula is like that: 1 clay + 3 stamina = 1 brick. Not much to work with...


The only solution I see right now is to add a chance to "refund" a bit of stamina. Like each level of brickmaker skill gives you a 5% chance to -1 stamina cost when making a brick (so level 3 means 15% chance for 2 stamina cost and 85% for 3 stamina cost). Any other solution?

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I wouldn't complicate it and go with lower resources spent. For example, a skilled carpenter needs only a half of wood needed to build stars than someone who has never held a saw in his hand before.

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A more skilled person uses up less material comapred to an apprentice. I would also go for volume inrease -- and your idea with stamina refunding is good, but I would make those numbers higher -- if level 3 is max, make it worhtwhile and have a 50% chance of reagining up to 2 stamina points. The person needs to feel compelled to actually increase his skills.

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Bricks aren't all the same.

Some bricks are tough bricks which you can use to make kilns and furnaces. People pay extra for high quality bricks like that.

Lower quality bricks you buy in a stack but some of them will be crumbly. The better the brickmaker, the less chance of getting crumbly bricks.

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I made a brick once. It turned out really, really crappy. I'm sure someone with more skill could make one that wasn't so crappy. Any reason for arbitrarily limiting quality to be the same across the board?

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... Khem, this is a GAME, you don't expect anyone to make different shapes/quality of bricks? :D What, you want the player to have 50 types of bricks in inventory and then selecting which one use in building a house? :) Come one, people, please retain at least a bit of sanity when replying.

That's true you can use less resources in some cases (like carpentry), but you can't use it for bricks (no matter the skill, you always use the same amount of clay to make a brick).
Volume increase won't work also for things like milling (changing grain into flour). Also, sometimes I need a very specific ratio (to make a healing potion you need 1 bottle per potion, there is absolutely no way to get 1 bottle and make from it 2 bottled potions).

The skills system will be used for crafting a lot of very primitive and standarized things (bricks, flour, bread, linseed oil).

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That's true you can use less resources in some cases (like carpentry), but you can't use it for bricks (no matter the skill, you always use the same amount of clay to make a brick).
Volume increase won't work also for things like milling (changing grain into flour). Also, sometimes I need a very specific ratio (to make a healing potion you need 1 bottle per potion, there is absolutely no way to get 1 bottle and make from it 2 bottled potions).

The skills system will be used for crafting a lot of very primitive and standarized things (bricks, flour, bread, linseed oil).



I think that it is a matter of commodity. If you are working with wood, you use more material. If you are making a bread, however, there should be a fixed percentage of bread being burnt (for skill level). For potions and bricks, I would go with the second approach. You will make a lot of bad bricks and undrinkable potions in beginning, but as time progresses, you find yourself making good bricks 99% of time.

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Okay, so if you don't want to implement different quality levels; you don't want to modify the quantities used based on skill; and you don't want to modify the quantities produced, then why the fuck bother with having a skill level at all? And what's with the ""Come on people please" condescending bullshit? Are you out of your damned mind?

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That's true you can use less resources in some cases (like carpentry), but you can't use it for bricks (no matter the skill, you always use the same amount of clay to make a brick).





Not Necessarily true. An unskilled brick maker might use 3 times as much clay because the first two don't turn out. You don't have to show to the user that the first two didn't turn out but you can infer it by the fact that it takes more materials.

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You aren't thinking like a game designer with all those "can't"s in your OP. If you want skill levels to matter you can easily tweak or add features until they do.

The suggestions you've gotten so far would work, namely the ability to make better products (this approach keeps more of your current design intact than others). You don't have to have fifty types of bricks, but you could have ten without a lot of hassle, as long as the type or quality is meaningful.

Or you could have higher skill allow the player to use better equipment which in turn produces more things with less stamina. Or other options. The bottom line is that if your current design doesn't allow for different quality of products or rates of production, then it probably doesn't allow for different skill levels either. So either be willing to adjust the design or ditch the idea of skill levels, but don't imagine that the constraints your design places on you are in any way absolute.

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