Okay, so if you don't want to implement different quality levels; you don't want to modify the quantities used based on skill; and you don't want to modify the quantities produced, then why the fuck bother with having a skill level at all? And what's with the ""Come on people please" condescending bullshit? Are you out of your damned mind?

That's why the title is "Problem" I can't think of a good solution either. Just checking if I have not overlooked something obvious here.

[quote name='Acharis' timestamp='1319210169' post='4875060']
That's true you can use less resources in some cases (like carpentry), but you can't use it for bricks (no matter the skill, you always use the same amount of clay to make a brick).

Not Necessarily true. An unskilled brick maker might use 3 times as much clay because the first two don't turn out. You don't have to show to the user that the first two didn't turn out but you can infer it by the fact that it takes more materials.
[/quote]Failure rate... OK, maybe for low level brick maker it would make sense (still, I don't see how average brick maker could waste any brick, therefore there won't be any difference between average and excellent), but what about other activities like milling grain to flour or threshing? You can't really really waste resources there

Typically, in games the crafting system is about making complex stuff (swords, armours) and there quality and failure rate works. But here, with these very primitive products it can't be used...

You aren't thinking like a game designer with all those "can't"s in your OP. If you want skill levels to matter you can easily tweak or add features until they do.

The suggestions you've gotten so far would work, namely the ability to make better products (this approach keeps more of your current design intact than others). You don't have to have fifty types of bricks, but you could have ten without a lot of hassle, as long as the type or quality is meaningful.

Or you could have higher skill allow the player to use better equipment which in turn produces more things with less stamina. Or other options. The bottom line is that if your current design doesn't allow for different quality of products or rates of production, then it probably doesn't allow for different skill levels either. So either be willing to adjust the design or ditch the idea of skill levels, but don't imagine that the constraints your design places on you are in any way absolute.

No matter how I would think, I still can not imagine any game (even a building simulation) where 10 brick types are present There has to be one type of brick. That's the nature of bricks. Only one type of brick exist in the real world. I really shouldn't make a game more complex and detailed than reality Games are supposed to be simplier than reality, not more complex.

if your current design doesn't allow for different quality of products or rates of production, then it probably doesn't allow for different skill levels either

Now you are not thinking like a designer. We can't give up so easily Some solution should exist.

Or you could have higher skill allow the player to use better equipment which in turn produces more things with less stamina.

Yes... Production with less stamina (time used) is logical and realistic in all cases. But here I have a small problem with the numbers. The crafting action use between 3 and 5 stamina, that's not enough to make any discounts... With 3 stamina -1 is equal to 33% and -2 equal to 66%. That would be enough for 2 levels of the skill only (alse these skills levels would be very powerful ones).

- I don't want to make stamina non integer, the confusion and ugliness of this solution would make me prefer to drop the whole skill system
- adding one digit (so 30-50 stamina per action) would solve it but the stamina numbers would go higher in the whole game (and I have to display them as numbers for that project) and no other system in the game need the higher precision of stamina, so I'm very reluctant to do it
- making a percentage chance to refund 1 stamina after action completion is a bit strange one but would work

Are there any other options how to modify stamina?

I think that you're at a point where you have to choose: modify your design so that quality matters or it makes sense for a craftsman to make more products with the same expenditure of time and stamina, or admit that making bricks is not interesting.

Bricks and other low level products may not be things where skill matters in your game. People have posted why a good brickmaker can do things better or more quickly or with less waste, but you "don't see it" and refuse to use those mechanics based on your assumptions about those processes. That's fine, but if the player cannot affect the quality, rate of production, or investment needed to make a thing, what other qualities exist in your current design that could be affected by skill?

I'm not sure why you're so resistant to failure rate or having even one other type of brick (why don't you make some yourself and tell us that there's no wasted material and every brick is of the same quality), but since you seem to be why not have making boring products where the skill of the crafter is meaningless be one-off skills? They wouldn't be glamorous, but if people need bricks or flour or whatever some people will learn the skill and use it from time to time, even if they focus on skills they can develop mostt of the time.

So there it is. Remove skill from jobs where your design dictates that it won't matter, or use any of the suggestions posted above (my picks would be failure rate and better equipment if you don't want output quality to matter), or adjust your design to allow for item quality or stamina modification. As it stands, it seems like you're just looking for some conceit that will allow you to imitate any of the above without having design elements that actually allow such a feature in your game, which seems like a very roundabout and difficukt way to address the problem.

As it stands, it seems like you're just looking for some conceit that will allow you to imitate any of the above without having design elements that actually allow such a feature in your game, which seems like a very roundabout and difficukt way to address the problem.

Yeah... The game is in the late design stage with most things already designed, so my options are highly limited Plus skills is a bonus feature, not a core one so I'm not very willing to sacriface other things to make it work better. I just want skills to spice things up, these don't need to be very good.

Anyway, I remembered about "digging clay". Here I can't make "quality" or "resources usage". Only time (stamina) to clay received ratio is possible. So, this way or another I need at least some skills to be based on stamina usage.

Instead of failure, I'd go with stamina cost reduction. Players react better to rewards instead of punishment. I'd also make it so your stamina cost is anywhere between 0 and 3 no matter your skill level. This is to break determinism. If players know exactly what they will get out of a play session, this gets boring. If they get lucky and end up with extra stamina, they will feel like they got more than their money worth. Of course, at low skill level you have a very small chance for this to happen.