rpg system - balancing

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Hey all!

I am planning on developing a pvp game without classes. This menas every player can choose some spells to make there character individual.
I think a good idea will be to give the spells some base stats and spells also influence hp. Every char has 100 energy for default.

Attributes for spells:
-damage
-range
-speed(how long does it take to hit the enemy?, only for range)
-energy cost
-cooldown
-influencing hp

is there a common system to balance about 20 of spells, without testing hours and hours? the system should do it as exactly as possible(i know that won´t be really exact, and i know i have to test. but i want to know it inaccurate)

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Hey all!

I am planning on developing a pvp game without classes. This menas every player can choose some spells to make there character individual.
I think a good idea will be to give the spells some base stats and spells also influence hp. Every char has 100 energy for default.

Attributes for spells:
-damage
-range
-speed(how long does it take to hit the enemy?, only for range)
-energy cost
-cooldown
-influencing hp

is there a common system to balance about 20 of spells, without testing hours and hours? the system should do it as exactly as possible(i know that won´t be really exact, and i know i have to test. but i want to know it inaccurate)

There's not really any concept other than testing,testing and testing. PvP and 20 spells could be really messy. The best I could think off is to start small and simple, do some testing and then start to expand one by one. I.e. start with 3-5 spells with really different behaviour and let some test players have some fun. I never saw a multiplayer game which started in a balanced game state and which has not been disrupted by the communty within the first 2 days.

The major issue is, that any PvP combat depends heavily on player skills, you just can't simulate this in a satisfying way,nor can you pretict it.

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[quote name='Florian22222' timestamp='1321607462' post='4885255']
Hey all!

I am planning on developing a pvp game without classes. This menas every player can choose some spells to make there character individual.
I think a good idea will be to give the spells some base stats and spells also influence hp. Every char has 100 energy for default.

Attributes for spells:
-damage
-range
-speed(how long does it take to hit the enemy?, only for range)
-energy cost
-cooldown
-influencing hp

is there a common system to balance about 20 of spells, without testing hours and hours? the system should do it as exactly as possible(i know that won´t be really exact, and i know i have to test. but i want to know it inaccurate)

There's not really any concept other than testing,testing and testing. PvP and 20 spells could be really messy. The best I could think off is to start small and simple, do some testing and then start to expand one by one. I.e. start with 3-5 spells with really different behaviour and let some test players have some fun. I never saw a multiplayer game which started in a balanced game state and which has not been disrupted by the communty within the first 2 days.

The major issue is, that any PvP combat depends heavily on player skills, you just can't simulate this in a satisfying way,nor can you pretict it.
[/quote]

but i hoped that there is a mathematical system or program that can solve such problems approximately.

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There is, but it requires the game to have little tactical options. It's easy to do if all you need is balancing DPS and Efficiency. You put your skills on a scale and make sure a skill with higher DPS has worse Efficiency. As soon as you throw in more complexity, it becomes impossible to do. In a well designed system, players will have multiple options that vary in effectiveness based on the current situation. You cannot mathematically balance these. You have to go by feel and compare with what's available. If your combat system is deep enough, players can usually find ways to counter imbalances. It's when there is no counter that balance changes are required. That you cannot predict with math alone.

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Hello Florian,

I would agree with Ashaman73. As all engineers say, computed models are good but nothing is better than real testing. No wonder other designers make beta testing sessions and have plenty of players play their game for a long time before declaring it finished.

To do so, I would advise you to give each spell a number based on its importance. And calculate the "expected value" of your system. One way or the other you have to find a way to represent your system mathematically so you can safely balance it.

For example I would quote Jesse Schell in his book "The art of game design" when he talks about the difficult and tricky work of balancing a game.

"Consider a game where a player rolls two dice. If they get a seven, or an eleven, they win $5, but if they get anything else, they lose$1. How do we figure out the expected value of this game?
The chance of rolling a 7 is 6/36.
The chance of rolling an 11 is 2/36.
The chance of rolling anything else is 1  8/36, or 28/36. So, to calculate the expected value, we multiply the probabilities by the values for
each, and add them all up, like this:

Outcome - Chance x Outcome - Value
7 - 6/36 x $5 -$0.83
11 - 2/36 x $5 -$0.28
Everything else - 28/36 x (-$1) -$0.78

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