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glhf

Different outfits for a character? (low poly)

14 posts in this topic

I am learning right now about creating character models.

I wonder what is best way to create different outfits (clothing) for it?

Should I make a nude body first? And then add clothing ontop of it?
Wouldn't that make it almost twice poly count? Since you have the body underneath the clothing?

There can be a really large amount of different clothings so it should be somewhat simple way of editing what cloth the character model is wearing?
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[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332470801' post='4924502']
I am learning right now about creating character models.

I wonder what is best way to create different outfits (clothing) for it?

Should I make a nude body first? And then add clothing ontop of it?
Wouldn't that make it almost twice poly count? Since you have the body underneath the clothing?

There can be a really large amount of different clothings so it should be somewhat simple way of editing what cloth the character model is wearing?
[/quote]
When doing lowpoly, you should incoparate the clothing into the mesh itself. For one this keep the polycount low, saves texture space, and avoids artifacts while animating your model (clothing mesh penetrating body mesh etc...).

In low-poly game (btw. what is low poly for you ? 1k, 5k, 10k ? ) different clothings are done by using some base meshes and different textures to get some variations.
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[quote name='Ashaman73' timestamp='1332483838' post='4924538']
In low-poly game (btw. what is low poly for you ? 1k, 5k, 10k ? ) different clothings are done by using some base meshes and different textures to get some variations.
[/quote]

Well, I'm not completely sure.. I want to make art for an indy mmorpg.
I've read that most modern computers can handle around 100k-150k polys.

So to be on safe sade I chose a 100k budget.. Since there can become more than planned.
And since it's a mmorpg I want it to be able to handle very many players.
I think at least 100 rendered players.. Which can easily happen in clan wars etc or big events.

100 players = 1k poly per character to reach the 100k budget.
BUT there's going to be a lot more happening... like objects, animations, special effects from spells, weapons etc and many more things.
I really don't understand how other games manage this.. But I want to keep poly budget as close as possible to 500... not more than 1k per character.
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I'm also wondering about colors for clothing..

I think it would be nice to give players a choice to dye parts of their clothes to different colors (red/blue etc)..
So lets say I give them 8 different color choices that they can chose to dye their clothes... and then have pants, shoes, shirt, hat, tie, shoulder pads, etc.. there's a lot of different possible clothes.

Does this mean I have to make a different texture with every color to the shirt.... and maybe he is wearing a thong (lol) that is yellow... I have to make a character model with each different shirt color... with each different type of clothing and different color from every clothing...
Sorry about such a messy question, It's probably because I'm completely confused about how to do it?
Because if it's like that... then I have to make like millions (not exagerating) of character models so all possible clothes + color combinations?? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.png[/img]
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[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332517225' post='4924667']
...
[/quote]
Well.. I think that a modular character design for a MMORPG is even hard challenge for an experienced art team. There're several possibilities, just coloring a greyscale image is by far the easiest way.

Recoloring a greyscale by a gradient map:
[url="http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/publications.html"]Shading a Bigger, Better Sequel: Techniques in Left 4 Dead 2[/url] by Valve

Character customization in brink:
[url="http://www.splashdamage.com/publications"]Punching Above Your Weight: Small Art Teams, Big Games[/url] by Splash Damage


Btw. 1k per character is too low (that is on level of the PS2/XBox 1 ). Tri count isn't so important on modern PCs any longer, still you need to be careful. Current gen is about 3k to 8k for characters (sometimes up to 50k , sometimes less).

My advice: work on a modular character concept first and test it, until it is absolute water proof, then start to make art, not one single second earlier
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[quote name='Relfos' timestamp='1332526019' post='4924713']
[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332517225' post='4924667']Because if it's like that... then I have to make like millions (not exagerating) of character models so all possible clothes + color combinations?? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.png[/img]
[/quote]
Of course not, in this cases usually the cloth textures are in greyscale, and the color of each part is changed using code.
[/quote]

Going to read up more on greyscale, Thanks :)
Solves the color problem.

What about mixing different clothes with eachother?
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[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332570937' post='4924832']
[quote name='Relfos' timestamp='1332526019' post='4924713']
[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1332517225' post='4924667']Because if it's like that... then I have to make like millions (not exagerating) of character models so all possible clothes + color combinations?? [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wacko.png[/img]
[/quote]
Of course not, in this cases usually the cloth textures are in greyscale, and the color of each part is changed using code.
[/quote]

Going to read up more on greyscale, Thanks [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
Solves the color problem.

What about mixing different clothes with eachother?
[/quote]

I'm quoting myself to say that I found out how to mix clothes.
It's done my hiding clothes that are not active... and then unhiding them and hiding the previous clothing when they are switched ingame.
Just saying incase someone else wondered how to go about it :)

Also, I said I would look into greyscaling but I couldn't find any tutorials about it in google.
Not even an introduction to greyscaling.

For example.. How would I use greyscaling to give players a choice to change skin color of their character?
I THINK that it might be acomplished by having different UV images that are swapped.. if that's possible?
But then I didn't use any greyscaling.. whatever that is.

So I think I might be doing something in a lot more complex way than it needs to be since I'm not using greyscaling.
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"Greyscaling" isn't a technique you would look up with a Google search and find tutorials for...

The idea is that you create your textures in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayscale"]greyscale[/url] (or black & white), and the game would then apply your different colour selections through code. So you create [i]one[/i] asset, that is then displayed in whatever colour the player has chosen.


Does that make sense?
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[quote name='jbadams' timestamp='1332824092' post='4925528']
"Greyscaling" isn't a technique you would look up with a Google search and find tutorials for...

The idea is that you create your textures in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grayscale"]greyscale[/url] (or black & white), and the game would then apply your different colour selections through code. So you create [i]one[/i] asset, that is then displayed in whatever colour the player has chosen.


Does that make sense?
[/quote]

Yes, Thanks.
But I still wish there was some kind of tutorial on this because it sounds mega complicated to know what level of black/white/grey you should use in the grayscale image at what parts. Like if you wanted to make an rainbow with some specific colors in mind.. how would you draw that in grayscale?

Also are you supposed to fit all unwrapped parts (Eyes, chest, plate armor, headband, hair, sun glasses and a 100 hundred things.. on just one UV Map?
I don't see how? And if you make more than one texture then it's going to cost performance.

And you can't stack unwrapped parts ontop of each other since you've done the grayscale for specific parts.
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Mapping a greyscale value to a color value is as simple as using a color curve or a color scale. You set up some sort of gradient, with as many colors in it as you need, arranged in a texture like so:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4rAjE.png[/img]

Then you set up the shader such that the greyscale color is obtained from the model's texture, and used as the v-component of the texture coordinate used to index the above colorscale texture, with the u-component as 0, in order to obtain the color to draw. A greyscale value of 0 would draw color from the left side of the colorscale, while a value of 1 would draw from the right. Values in between, of course, would draw from the inbetween scales.

And no, you don't necessarily have to put all the unwrapped components onto a single texture. Some state change such as a texture swap here and there isn't going to kill you.
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Do I understand correctly that you are restricted to 256 colors (probably enough for normal clothes), unless you are using HDR texture for model or encode grayscale in two channels?
Also - should texture compression be turned off for grayscale textures? Compression noise that would otherwise be tolerable for normal texture can result in visible color changes unless the color texture is very smooth?
I myself have taken simpler approach and use color transform matrix - but this allows much smaller variability in textures. Basically just replacing one base color with another (like changing red T-shirt to blue one).
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[quote name='JTippetts' timestamp='1333900019' post='4929341']
Mapping a greyscale value to a color value is as simple as using a color curve or a color scale. You set up some sort of gradient, with as many colors in it as you need, arranged in a texture like so:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4rAjE.png[/img]

Then you set up the shader such that the greyscale color is obtained from the model's texture, and used as the v-component of the texture coordinate used to index the above colorscale texture, with the u-component as 0, in order to obtain the color to draw. A greyscale value of 0 would draw color from the left side of the colorscale, while a value of 1 would draw from the right. Values in between, of course, would draw from the inbetween scales.

And no, you don't necessarily have to put all the unwrapped components onto a single texture. Some state change such as a texture swap here and there isn't going to kill you.
[/quote]

Ok I think I understand the greyscale thing, ty for that.
Will have to look into it a bit more though but I'm sitll a bit unsure about the unwrapped components.

Like in WoW for example every character can equip like a billion different clothing items..
And I dunno but i think you can only use 1 texture map at a time? maybe you can use more than 1 texture map at a time but then it would cost performance.. a lot.
So you would have to fit all those millions of different clothings onto one texture map.
Which is perhaps possible with show/hide and stacking them ontop of eachother.. still mega complicated though.
but then you can't have complicated textures where you just assign a color to the object.
WoWs textures are customized for each piece of clothing they dont have same colors.

and if you can only use 1 texture map at one time then how would you do swaps because if you are wearing boots that exist on texture map 2 and you're wearing a cape from texture map 7 then what??

I just cant believe theres no guides out there for this?
How did everyone learn this stuff?
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Ok i think maybe if we split a character into many meshes.
Like for example.. torso in 1 mesh where you hide/show the diffrent torsos for example to switch between naked torso to leather armor or a shirt etc and when you switch mesh it also switches the texture map.

So a character is made up of like many meshes: legs, feet, torso, head, hands, arms.
Would this be very high cost in performance in mmorpg? How did ultima online do it for example or world of warcraft?
And how do you rig and animate something like this?
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