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a413

PS Vita - what programming language does it use?

16 posts in this topic

Hi, I'm interested in learning some programming language. Though C++ is nice and all and is most used, I'm more fond of C# since it is "rumored" to be less complex. However, to my dismay, I see that it is mostly designed for microsoft related consoles and hardware. Like Windows computers, windows phones, and the XBOX series.

But I do know that indie games have been made and sent to the PS3. At least, I think? And now there's the PS Vita.

After coming across this announcement on this forums randomly on google: [url="http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147388"]http://www.ngemu.com...ad.php?t=147388[/url]

[b]I find out that PS Vita will accept indie games. [/b]
Now, don't get me wrong here.
I'm not trying to receive money or anything in return for the games like what the site is saying. I just wanna make them for fun. And while sony's not perfect, I (out of personal experience of using both consoles over many years), I don't really like XBOX. Not for anything really. It's just, the klunky controller and the fact that I have to pay monthly for LIVE. While SONY has not made good use of its online features in the kinds of games I play (putting them and the fact that they're free to waste), I'd still prefer it over paying monthly for LIVE.

So, I'm not doing this for money or anything. Simply because I like games. And I don't think SONY is the "best" but I'm less fond of microsoft's xbox series in comparison to SONY because I liked the PSP, PS2, and PS1. I have good memories of them. The PS1 and PS2 were the consoles that got me into gaming in specific along with Nintendo 64 and its game boy series all the way up to the modern day DSi. So if I could make games that port to them I think that'd be pretty cool. Other than that I've enjoyed using the XBOX. But it's not a console series that I have much attachment to. I lean more towards sony and nintendo.

So, I'm kinda excited that we can make indie games for the Vita.
Now comes my over dramatized question,

[size=5][b]what programming language does the PS Vita or PS3 indie games use? Or what language is required to be used in order for the game to port to the console properly or be compatible with it?[/b][/size]

Especially the PS Vita.
I see how SONY has decided to join the hype over indie games. But I've looked all over google and couldn't find any information on the type of programming that's compatible with PS Vita and/or PS3. I know C# is used for microsoft. Will it be applicable to Sony consoles as well? Or does it use something else? I'm guessing it probably will since SONY wants indie games designed for the PSV to be sony-exclusive for about a year or two. And that'd be difficult to accomplish if it used C#, right?

I'd be sad if it were strictly C++ or C though; because I've heard that it's very complicated language and takes many years to learn. If I wanted to get a job as a game developer or work at a big company or in a team of developers then that'd be fine. But I don't think that I would want to go for it because I am not interested in going that far. And even if I were, it would not be with programming but something else. ;3

So, please, if anyone can answer my question I'd be thankful <3333
And if you could let me know what the 3Ds uses I'd also be glad. And maybe even the Wii, though I don't know if it'd transfer to the WiiU. But I'm most interested in knowing the Vita right now. >w<;

Many thanks in advance~*spam of less than 3's* <333333333333

[u][b]EDIT:::[/b][/u] Also, almost forgot, "[u][b]Is it legal[/b][/u] to port indie games to the PS Vita?" I mean, it's not hacking is it? @-@ srry, i'm newb. But will it be ok to release free games to port to these consoles and "not" have them published by sony and put up on PSN?
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Considering PS3 and PSP use C++ I guess PS Vita going to use C++ as well. But this is just my opinion.

C++ isn't that hard. You just have to remember if you wrote [i]new[/i] you have to write [i]delete[/i] somewhere. There also also some tricks which make code looks complicated, but you don't have to use them.
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Hmm... thanks Ripiz for the information.
I'm still a little let down that it uses C++ though.
[b]Does it "have" to be C++ for it to work on those consoles? It can't be anything else?[/b]

I'm also interested in ActionScript which is for flash-related projects. Would it be possible for it to work on the PSV and other SONY consoles? Or is it really strictly C++?

I know C++ takes years and years of learning before you could really do much with gaming in specific which is the main reason why I don't want to go for it. This is completely out of hobby so I don't want to spend several "years" learning the language before I could actually do anything with it.

XD As you can see, I'm really trying to avoid C++ at all costs. It just doesn't make sense for a hobbyist who wants to make a few simple games on a whim to spend years learning how to do it if there are other alternatives. Though I know some people go that far, knowing myself, I probably wouldn't be able to.
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You can make any language work with the Vita, so long as you can interface with the native layer to use the Vita's system libraries, and that you can compile to ARM machine code. You could make C# work if you could port a C# interpreter/JIT to the Vita.

However, it would be vastly simpler to use C or C++.
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[quote name='colinhect' timestamp='1333648335' post='4928546']
[quote name='Ripiz' timestamp='1333606293' post='4928394'] C++ isn't that hard. You just have to remember if you wrote [i]new[/i] you have to write [i]delete[/i] somewhere. [/quote]

It isn't quite that simple.
[/quote]
Perhaps not, but it's not a bad rule to follow!

Last I heard, the Vita SDK uses C#. According to this article, it will also be multiplatform, including the Vita as well as Android devices.
[url="http://www.pcworld.com/article/243559/sony_launches_beta_sdk_for_android_and_playstation_gaming_program.html"]http://www.pcworld.com/article/243559/sony_launches_beta_sdk_for_android_and_playstation_gaming_program.html[/url]
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For Indie games there will be SDK (PS Suite) based on MonoDevelop that will allow to write games in C# (no native code). On device program will run under Mono.
Here's a presentation from GDC2012: [url="http://www.playstation.com/pss/developer/2012GDC-PSSuiteOverview.pdf"]http://www.playstation.com/pss/developer/2012GDC-PSSuiteOverview.pdf[/url]
You can see also the parts of API they will provide (video/audio/physics/etc..).
Most likely Unit3D will also allow target PSVita. Currently there are already few games on PSVita that uses unity3D: [url="http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/02/13/escape-plan-a-touching-adventure-for-ps-vita-escape-plan-a-touching-adventure-for-ps-vita/"]http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012/02/13/escape-plan-a-touching-adventure-for-ps-vita-escape-plan-a-touching-adventure-for-ps-vita/[/url]

AAA+++ game studios most likely can receive C/C++ SDK+API for Vita.
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Hmm.. well now i'm even more confused of what to pick.

C# is similar to C++ but somewhat easier. <- not my opinion cuz i don't know either of them, but both on this forum and others, that's what people keep saying.

My question is, "how similar are they?". If I decided to put in some effort to learn C++, how easy would it be to transfer that knowledge to C#?

I know C# is more recent than C++. Is there possibility that all future consoles will rely "mostly" on C# instead of C++? Or will C# forever be something on the side that is microsoft oriented and not used too much outside of anything microsoft-related?
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If your goal is to learn C#, then start with C#; don't worry about C++. C++ has a fairly steep and long learning curve before you really start getting good with it. This can be mitigated by having a good instructor and learning environment, but it's unnecessary for learning C#. And then if you want to learn C++ later, knowing C# will flatten the learning curve.
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[quote name='a413' timestamp='1333838893' post='4929179']My question is, "how similar are they?". If I decided to put in some effort to learn C++, how easy would it be to transfer that knowledge to C#?[/quote]There's a difference between [i]learning a programming language[/i] and [i]learning to program[/i]. Once you've learnt to program, then that knowledge is transferable to any programming language.
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Sony opened their closed beta program. Now anyone can download beta of PS Suite SDK 0.98 here: [url="http://www.playstation.com/pss/developer/index_e.html"]http://www.playstation.com/pss/developer/index_e.html[/url]
It comes with Vita simulator for PSSuite created apps. Lot's of examples and some source code for 2d game engine and 2d physics.
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A bit of a necro ( I missed this thread ), but if you are interested in programming for the Vita, I have put together [url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/page/PlayStation-Suite-SDK-Development-content.aspx"]a series of tutorials for getting started[/url].

The SDK is actually pretty decent, although the documentation/examples can be a bit confusing at times ( thus my tutorials ), as I think they suffer a bit from English as a second language syndrome. Everything you need is there in the samples, it's just their code can be a bit.. difficult to digest.

That said, it is a very beginner friendly environment, and if you have basic C# skills, you actually can get a game up and running on an actual VIta device in only a few hours effort. The simulator is "OK" but needs some improvement, but you can easily get started without a Vita device.

I still wouldn't recommend using this as the way to learn to programming, but once you have the basics down, its a very interesting platform to look into. If you are interested in the platform itself, take a [url="http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2012/04/22/A-look-around-PlayStation-Suite-tools-and-SDK.aspx"]look here[/url] for an idea of what's included. The platform really should be getting more interest than it has been from Indies, the potential is certainly there.
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[quote name='Ripiz' timestamp='1333606293' post='4928394']
C++ isn't that hard. You just have to remember if you wrote [i]new[/i] you have to write [i]delete[/i] somewhere. There also also some tricks which make code looks complicated, but you don't have to use them.
[/quote]That's exactly the kind of dangerous advice that leads people into thinking that they should just learn C++ without worrying about the details. Oh, it's only complicated if you write it complicated.

[b]No.[/b]

The whole danger of C++, the reason the experts are always telling people to start elsewhere, is not that you can write complicated code in C++. It's not even the memory management thing. It's that the whole language is afflicted by "here be dragons" quirks and corners that [i]you can't see[/i]. I ran into a bizarre bug about two weeks ago and I'm [i]still[/i] not sure whether I broke C++ rules or whether it was a compiler bug generating bad code. They key to understanding C++ is that, if it seems like a simple and easy to use environment, then you've probably made [i]several[/i] major missteps. That you can't find. And THAT is why people need to go to C++ only after they've got a solid handle on the fundamentals.
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[quote name='Promit' timestamp='1336853679' post='4939617']
And THAT is why people need to go to C++ only after they've got a solid handle on the fundamentals.
[/quote]

If at all. Thats the other misconception that needs to DIAF. C++ ins't the end game, or at least, doesn't have to be.

Too many people look at C#, Python, etc... as the languages they learn on their way to using C++.
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[quote name='Promit' timestamp='1336853679' post='4939617']
The whole danger of C++, the reason the experts are always telling people to start elsewhere, is not that you can write complicated code in C++. It's not even the memory management thing. It's that the whole language is afflicted by "here be dragons" quirks and corners that [i]you can't see[/i]. I ran into a bizarre bug about two weeks ago and I'm [i]still[/i] not sure whether I broke C++ rules or whether it was a compiler bug generating bad code. They key to understanding C++ is that, if it seems like a simple and easy to use environment, then you've probably made [i]several[/i] major missteps. That you can't find. And THAT is why people need to go to C++ only after they've got a solid handle on the fundamentals.
[/quote]

While that's true, I think it's actually two different answers to two different questions - C/C++ (I believe) is the better path towards understanding the more nitty-gritty bits of computer science, whereas languages such as Java and C# are better for learning programming, as well as being a faster path towards a usable product for the beginning programmer.
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[quote name='ndssia' timestamp='1336892093' post='4939724']
While that's true, I think it's actually two different answers to two different questions - C/C++ (I believe) is the better path towards understanding the more nitty-gritty bits of computer science, whereas languages such as Java and C# are better for learning programming, as well as being a faster path towards a usable product for the beginning programmer.
[/quote]If you think C/C++ is giving you useful information about how computers work, you're off the rails. If you think C/C++ is teaching you the first thing about computer [i]science,[/i] you're on another planet entirely. Edited by Promit
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[quote name='a413' timestamp='1333838893' post='4929179']
My question is, "how similar are they?". If I decided to put in some effort to learn C++, how easy would it be to transfer that knowledge to C#?

I know C# is more recent than C++. Is there possibility that all future consoles will rely "mostly" on C# instead of C++? Or will C# forever be something on the side that is microsoft oriented and not used too much outside of anything microsoft-related?
[/quote]If you currently can't program, then yes, I would say that once you've learned one language, there's a lot that carries over to other languages. On the other hand if you want to learn one of these over the other, you might as well go direct to it, rather than learn one as a route to the other.

Are your objections to C# being for MS platforms down to a matter of principle? Or that you would rather develop for consoles? Or something else?

Note that C# seems to be surprisingly portable thanks to Mono. And someone's pointed out it is supported by the PS Vita anyway? As to what will be more supported in future, that seems hard to say, but I think both languages will have a large amount of support for some time.
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