What do you think about Turn based combat?

Game Design and Theory Game Design

Started by glhf April 08, 2012 10:31 AM

37 comments, last by swiftcoder 12 years ago

-585

Author

April 08, 2012 01:34 PM

[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1333889000' post='4929303']
And about all the different things you can do in a turn... I can easily do all that within 6 seconds.

Sorry, but I simply don't believe you --
[/quote]

What reason would I have to come here and lie about that?
I know I can do it because I can.
I've been playing games for more than 15 years.

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean other people can't do it.
So if you don't believe me then I guess the discussion between us ends at that.

Your argument about having 100 skills to choose between for a each situation is pretty crazy too.
I mean sure there can easily be 100 skills in the game.. but not all for the same type of situation.. that means you would have to have over a thousand skills in the game.

When I played WoW for example I probably had around 50 abilities hotkeyed/keybinded. I used up every single hotbar slot available.
Doesn't mean I had to decide between them all for each situation.. All skills are used for different situations.

KenjiSenpai

231

April 08, 2012 02:20 PM

Sorry glhf but the human brain is limited theres simply stuff you cant analyse just as fast WoW is a no-brainer game you can macro your abilities but for turnbased strategy game its something else. Also the 100 skills to choose for each situation, Heroes of might and magic demonstrated that. Tons of spells that you can use for many situations and that will change the outcome of the battle in many ways.

Turn based games often have a much more complex combat systems that needs to player to predict the outcomes of his actions more than actions games or real time strategy games.

Also the fact that you've been playing games for more than 15 years is irrelevant.

Karnot

182

April 08, 2012 03:16 PM

My desired games are somewhere between the 'Final Fantasy' and 'KOTOR'.

Its a bit funny, since FF and KOTOR have exactly the same system, time-wise. You act, then you get a delay during which you cannot act, then you can act again. Same as in almost every D&D game on PC. I call it "round-based", because its fairly specific, and is neither turn-based, nor real-time.

Do you think there's any advantage using turn based over real time?[/quote]
Yes. Outside of playing with unicums who can do a million of things in 5 seconds (yeah, right), turn-based system does usually offer more choice, detail, and complexity.

One other major reason - its not simultaneous. For example, if you have many units in different parts of the map - its impossible to be everywhere, notice everything, and control everyone at the same time. Some games, for example SRW, are designed primarily as spectacles. For such games its unforgivable if something happens away from your attention and you missed it. Other games you might want to attack the enemy from multiple sides, and have to hop between your units like a mad rabbit. Some games offer split-screen functionality or tracking windows, but its not quite the perfect solution. In turn-based you are always focused on the action, since everything is sequencial, not parallel.

glhf

-585

Author

April 08, 2012 03:29 PM

Sorry glhf but the human brain is limited theres simply stuff you cant analyse just as fast

Also the fact that you've been playing games for more than 15 years is irrelevant.

I know it's hard to believe there are players that are much better than you out there..
Often bad players don't believe there are any better players than themselves.. if they lose it's because of bad luck.. or the opponent must be cheating in some way.

And it does make a huge difference how long you have been playing games.
In a few years you just might start noticing that.

So you're obviously wrong about the power of the human brain.
It can accomplish more than you think.. Because I can do it and I know many people that can do it too.

Oh and you can macro in all or at least most games.. either with third part program or if it's included in the game by default.

Do you think there's any advantage using turn based over real time?

Yes. Outside of playing with unicums who can do a million of things in 5 seconds (yeah, right), turn-based system does usually offer more choice, detail, and complexity.

One other major reason - its not simultaneous. For example, if you have many units in different parts of the map - its impossible to be everywhere, notice everything, and control everyone at the same time. Some games, for example SRW, are designed primarily as spectacles. For such games its unforgivable if something happens away from your attention and you missed it. Other games you might want to attack the enemy from multiple sides, and have to hop between your units like a mad rabbit. Some games offer split-screen functionality or tracking windows, but its not quite the perfect solution. In turn-based you are always focused on the action, since everything is sequencial, not parallel.
[/quote]

You can.. Look at the crazy korean sc players.

Anyways, I don't care about proving anything to you anymore.
It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.

I know it is and since that is the only argument you had then I know turn based combat is a bad feature.

And reason I don't care about trying to make you understand is because you can't.
You are Ying and I am Yang. We will never be able to understand each other no matter what kind of discussion we have.

Acharis

5,990

April 08, 2012 03:29 PM

And about all the different things you can do in a turn... I can easily do all that within 6 seconds.

Note that it is not always about efficiency. For example I frequently use 1 hour to take the first turn when I play Civilization. I analyse the situation, determine the long term goals, recheck the description of unique units of my civilization once again, things like that. It's not that I really have to do it or that it make me play that much better, I simply LOVE to take my time before issuing orders in singleplayer turn based strategies

Stellar Monarch (4X, turn based, released): GDN forum topic - Twitter - Facebook - YouTube

JTippetts

13,307

April 08, 2012 03:32 PM

In this thread, yet another troll disguises a stupid bash post with a thin veneer of "discussion", then gets angry when nobody agrees with him. I'm sorry, but trying to say that a turn-based game is "less skillful" than an action game is just... God, it's just stupid. No, glhf, you are not as awesome as you are trying to say you are. Sorry, but no.

If you don't like turn-based, don't make a turn-based game. Simple as that. But don' get mad if nobody else jumps on the bash train with you, and don't make stupid blanket statements under the guise of "discussion".

Accidental Noise Library
The Adventures of Goblinson Crusoe
Terrain Editor

glhf

-585

Author

April 08, 2012 03:43 PM

In this thread, yet another troll disguises a stupid bash post with a thin veneer of "discussion", then gets angry when nobody agrees with him. I'm sorry, but trying to say that a turn-based game is "less skillful" than an action game is just... God, it's just stupid. No, glhf, you are not as awesome as you are trying to say you are. Sorry, but no.

If you don't like turn-based, don't make a turn-based game. Simple as that. But don' get mad if nobody else jumps on the bash train with you, and don't make stupid blanket statements under the guise of "discussion".

Very insightful post you made in this thread... Let's see what did you contribute exactly?... Hmmm, Can't see anything else but you bashing me, calling me a lier and a troll.. and saying I didn't make thread to find out the advantages of turn based combat when in fact I did.

I made this thread to find out the advantages and now several people have said the same thing and the people that are getting angry are in fact YOU because you can't make me understand you. But if you read what I'm saying you will realise it's impossible to make me understand you because your argument is basicly that I'm lying.
I tried to help you all understand but if you think I'm not telling the truth then there's nothing I can do to help you.. Hence the Ying & Yang reference.
You think I'm being irrational if I get annoyed when I try to help you but you call me a lier in return?
Sigh.

JTippetts

13,307

April 08, 2012 03:54 PM

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.
[/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
[/quote]
[/font]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
Sorry, but by anybody's definition of trolling, this is it. That's all it is. Just trolling, no redeeming value whatsoever in such statements. All your self-righteous claims that you're just trying to help us poor stupid bad players, because you've got a whole 15 years experience, only adds to the troll. You didn't, as you claim, make this thread to find out the advantages. You made this thread to bash turn-based. I haven't seen any evidence otherwise.
[/font]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.
[/font]

Accidental Noise Library
The Adventures of Goblinson Crusoe
Terrain Editor

glhf

-585

Author

April 08, 2012 04:05 PM

It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]
[/font]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

Sorry, but by anybody's definition of trolling, this is it. That's all it is. Just trolling, no redeeming value whatsoever in such statements. All your self-righteous claims that you're just trying to help us poor stupid bad players, because you've got a whole 15 years experience, only adds to the troll. You didn't, as you claim, make this thread to find out the advantages. You made this thread to bash turn-based. I haven't seen any evidence otherwise.[/font]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.[/font]

[/quote]

I would say you're the one trolling.
I've contributed to the discussion with arguments to why real time is more skillful.
You haven't done anything else but bash me and call me a lier and troll.

I just thought there had to be a good reason for having turn based combat or else it wouldn't exist.
That's why I made this thread to find out what the reason(s) are because I couldn't think of any.

Sure, It might be fun/relaxing way of playing.. but if you want combat as skillful as it gets then real time is where the game should be at.
I don't understand what's so hard to understand about what I've said really.

Stormynature

5,198

April 08, 2012 04:11 PM

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.

The man does have a valid point Glhf, I myself have pretty much stepped back from posting in your threads (the irony of this post notwithstanding) due to the emotional entanglements you hold with your opinions. I like to see valid discussion, I like disagreements if they can reach a better answer. But you present an inflexibility in your replies that presupposes that a differing opinion is most of the time wrong. Don't forget this forum is filled with many people from many different sectors of the IT world as well inexperienced newcomers etc and some of these people will bring insights that are not normally understood at first glance. look deeper, ask questions, get more depth in an answer you disagree by asking for it.

What do you think about Turn based combat?

It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.
[/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

[/quote]
[/font]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.
[/font]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.[/font]

This topic is closed to new replies.

Popular Topics

Recommended Tutorials

What do you think about Turn based combat?

It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.[/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

[/quote][/font] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.[/font]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.[/font]

This topic is closed to new replies.

Popular Topics

Recommended Tutorials

Reticulating splines

It seems the only argument for turn based combat is that bad players think it's not possible to think through their actions in real time.
[/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

[/quote]
[/font]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif]

I am sorry I contributed to this thread, though. It made me feel dirty.
[/font]