# Diablo 3 representing the future of Anti- piracy?

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[quote name='Drew_Benton' timestamp='1338301906' post='4944324']
Honestly, it feels like they ran out of time and had to put out something for the money, and will be spending the foreseeable future, "finishing the game".[/quote]

Is this surprising or new? Have you ever heard of a game called Starcraft II? Blizzard recently released news that they'll be adding features that were expected in the original release. [url="http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/5366967/Developer_Update_with_Production_Director_Chris_Sigaty-5_7_2012#blog"]To be included "at or around the launch of Heart of the Swarm."[/url] For a game that was released almost 2 years ago. To a game that has no release date yet.

As someone famous once said: "wtf, mate?"

You've heard of post-release patches? Welcome to the future: post-release games. Edited by GameCreator

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[quote name='JTippetts' timestamp='1338257612' post='4944216']
So no, I don't count the "record breaking sales" as any kind of valid measure of the worth of this game.
[/quote]

Neither do I. The worth of the game is irrelevant to my point. My point is a lot of people seem to be complaining bitterly about issues and then [b]buying the game anyway.[/b]
BTW, I'm not accusing you of this.

[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338308423' post='4944353']
[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1338245206' post='4944165']
Feels like there's a lot of [url="http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/08/08"]noise[/url] being generated around this, but not much actual "not purchasing the game". Either that or their [url="http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/diablo_iii_shatters_pc_sales_records_server_woes_postpone_real-money_auction_house_launch"]record breaking sales[/url] would have been [i]even better[/i] without the drm.[/quote]Perhaps because it's possible to both like a game, and hate the way it's been crippled with DRM? (Plus the first buyers are not going to know until after they've bought the game.)

It seems perfectly consistent that more criticism is generated for the most popular games - of course you won't get much noise over a game that no one cares about.

Would not buying really help? Or would they just blame the lower sales on piracy, like they always do? What about games that get lots of sales without this system?
[/quote]

Well, not buying the game would give your argument a bit more legitimacy. Would they blame it on piracy? Probably. But it's kinda hard to take someone seriously when they can't even be bothered to stick to their guns (kinda like all those l4d2 boy-cotters who then pre-ordered the game in droves).

For the record, I haven't bought D3, but I was never really a big fan of the series anyway

[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338308423' post='4944353']
[quote]Personally, I don't really care about always online DRM. I care about my experience. My gaming pc is always connected to the internet anyway. If I go out or go away, then I can just [b]not play pc games[/b]. No big deal. I have a smartphone to keep me amused and playing a triple A game on a poky laptop screen defeats the purpose anyway.[/quote]Sure, though not everyone has the same views, or circumstances, as you do. And the examples given in the article show problems even when at home.
[/quote]

And as I said, this has been monumentally badly handled. Edited by ChaosEngine

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Honestly, I almost feel it is futile to try to bitch or whine about this scheme. While I hate it with a passion and want to burst into laughter every time I hear another reviewer say "lag" and "single player" in the same sentence, the endless masses of fans who ensure Diablo is the best-selling game ever, and will undoubtedly keep playing despite its crappy state, ensure that this practice only becomes more and more common. And the pattern has repeated enough times already, with the CoD MW2 boycott and L4D2 boycott - people bitch and whine, but ultimately give in. That is the way of the masses

Who cares what the metacritic score is, what your angry forum is yelling, and what the reputable news sources state; if you're rolling in more cash than ever before, that it all the incentive a [b]business[/b] needs.

[quote name='Drew_Benton' timestamp='1338301906' post='4944324']
Honestly, it feels like they ran out of time and had to put out something for the money, and will be spending the foreseeable future, "finishing the game".
[/quote]

With increasingly DLCs and pre-order early access, we are entering an age where games are never really finished and you are effectively buying a Beta game. That will never come out of Beta. Edited by Koobazaur

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[quote name='JTippetts' timestamp='1338257612' post='4944216'] I count it as a big scam; a flim-flam, if you will. A swindle. Had someone told me, "Hey, Blizzard is going to make you pay $60 for what you think is a complete game, only here's the rub: you'll have to nickel and dime yourself on the auction house if you want to complete it, because they are going to deliberately nerf your in-game drops based on the Auction House to force you to pony up additional cash," I would have given them a great big "Screw you, punchy" and walked away to spend that$60 elsewhere. Until yesterday, I had no inkling that they would do that; I was under the impression (as were many others) that the game I bought would be "complete", and the Auction House purely optional. To find otherwise honestly leaves me feeling like I've been punched in the stomach. It leaves me feeling ripped off. It makes me feel like I've been played for a fool.
[/quote]after reading that, I'm left thinking "wtf". Can you elaborate on this, such as what's incomplete or how real-money extra costs are required?

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[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1338373647' post='4944618']
after reading that, I'm left thinking "wtf". Can you elaborate on this, such as what's incomplete or how real-money extra costs are required?
[/quote]

Bashiok stated that the Auction House factors into the frequency/quality of items that are dropped in any given game:

[url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5149013410"]http://us.battle.net...opic/5149013410[/url]

Given that this affects all players (the always online requirement) I am left in the awkward position of being one of those few guys that only plays solo, and refuses to use the auction house. That means I play with nerfed drops, without the counter (the AH) to balance it out. Is it silly of me to want to play without the Auction House? Yeah, maybe. I never traded in D2, either, but at least there my drops weren't nerfed to compensate for trading. I'm not in this to participate in some kind of virtual economy meta-game. I want to play the game by making use of what I find, self-sufficient and self-contained.

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[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338556902' post='4945295']
[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1338512085' post='4945143']
[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338474005' post='4944985']
[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1338345502' post='4944524']
Neither do I. The worth of the game is irrelevant to my point. My point is a lot of people seem to be complaining bitterly about issues and then [b]buying the game anyway.[/b][/quote]Do we have evidence of this?[/quote]

As I said before, the evidence is largely anecdotal. But given the vocal complaints that are kinda hard to miss on the web coupled with the huge sales figures, I think it's a reasonable assumption.[/quote]That is completely not at all a reasonable assumption. There is no evidence to show that people complain, then buy the game. Looking at the basic figures doesn't even tell you if the same people complain are also the ones who buy.
[/quote]

I think a fairly large number of those complaining are complaining[b] because[/b] they bought the game (Most likely with the belief that Blizzard, a company with vast experience running online games, would be able to pull always online DRM off without too much hassle for the consumer), its been pretty much unplayable for 2 weeks straight in europe (atleast on evenings and weekends when people are free from work/school), From what i understand the situation with the asian servers aren't much better, the US ones seems to be "ok" but also had some major issues closer to launch, Throw in the "controversies" with the RMAH (reducing droprates on items that alot of people are trying to sell to force people into buying gear rather than farming for it) and it becomes quite obvious why alot of customers are upset. Edited by SimonForsman

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[quote name='SimonForsman' timestamp='1338842189' post='4946219']
[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338556902' post='4945295']
[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1338512085' post='4945143']
[quote name='mdwh' timestamp='1338474005' post='4944985']
[quote name='ChaosEngine' timestamp='1338345502' post='4944524']
Neither do I. The worth of the game is irrelevant to my point. My point is a lot of people seem to be complaining bitterly about issues and then [b]buying the game anyway.[/b][/quote]Do we have evidence of this?[/quote]

As I said before, the evidence is largely anecdotal. But given the vocal complaints that are kinda hard to miss on the web coupled with the huge sales figures, I think it's a reasonable assumption.[/quote]That is completely not at all a reasonable assumption. There is no evidence to show that people complain, then buy the game. Looking at the basic figures doesn't even tell you if the same people complain are also the ones who buy.
[/quote]

I think a fairly large number of those complaining are complaining[b] because[/b] they bought the game (Most likely with the belief that Blizzard, a company with vast experience running online games, would be able to pull always online DRM off without too much hassle for the consumer), its been pretty much unplayable for 2 weeks straight in europe (atleast on evenings and weekends when people are free from work/school), From what i understand the situation with the asian servers aren't much better, the US ones seems to be "ok" but also had some major issues closer to launch, Throw in the "controversies" with the RMAH (reducing droprates on items that alot of people are trying to sell to force people into buying gear rather than farming for it) and it becomes quite obvious why alot of customers are upset.
[/quote]

So now that it's mentioned again - I ask yet again; where did they say they [b]dynamically[/b] alter droprates based on what's on the AH? All I've seen is that they claim they had to make the droprates lower because of the existance of the AH.

And where do you get the information that the game is unplayable on European servers? Exaguration. My friends-list vibrates of life and I haven't had any issues apart from the first 2 hours of launch. My friends state the same.

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So now that it's mentioned again - I ask yet again; where did they say they [b]dynamically[/b] alter droprates based on what's on the AH? All I've seen is that they claim they had to make the droprates lower because of the existance of the AH.

And where do you get the information that the game is unplayable on European servers? Exaguration. My friends-list vibrates of life and I haven't had any issues apart from the first 2 hours of launch. My friends state the same.
[/quote]

Whether or not they dynamically alter is completely irrelevant, and a strawman argument to boot. Either way, they completely fark over the people that don't want to use the AH at all. Those players are given a broken product.

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[quote name='FLeBlanc' timestamp='1338850870' post='4946254']
So now that it's mentioned again - I ask yet again; where did they say they [b]dynamically[/b] alter droprates based on what's on the AH? All I've seen is that they claim they had to make the droprates lower because of the existance of the AH.

And where do you get the information that the game is unplayable on European servers? Exaguration. My friends-list vibrates of life and I haven't had any issues apart from the first 2 hours of launch. My friends state the same.
[/quote]

Whether or not they dynamically alter is completely irrelevant, and a strawman argument to boot. Either way, they completely fark over the people that don't want to use the AH at all. Those players are given a broken product.
[/quote]

It's not a strawman, chill out. For me it's very relevant if they alter drops based on what's AH at the time - that's not how I want to play it.
But yeah I see, you're one of the AH haters.

How are they gonna cater every type of hater? There are people who don't want to use followers, potions, elective mode or whatever. Take your pick. They can't please everyone who wants to fight the game.

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I live in Sweden (that's in Europe for those who don't know) and I've been able to play without problems since two hours after launch. The AH is not a game breaker in any way and does not interfere with my game experience in any way. The drop rate is certainly not lower than in the earlier Diablo games, if anything it's much higher. If the AH breaks the game, it's because it allows you to easily get too good gear which eliminates the challenge from the game.

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[quote name='FLeBlanc' timestamp='1338850870' post='4946254']
Whether or not they dynamically alter is completely irrelevant, and a strawman argument to boot. Either way, they completely fark over the people that don't want to use the AH at all. Those players are given a broken product.
[/quote]

It's not broken at all. Not fully taken advantage of maybe, but that doesn't make it broken. One could just as easily argue that Diablo 2 is broken because it doesn't include an auction house at all if you're going to be that finicky.

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[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1338900733' post='4946422']

It's not broken at all. Not fully taken advantage of maybe, but that doesn't make it broken. One could just as easily argue that Diablo 2 is broken because it doesn't include an auction house at all if you're going to be that finicky.
[/quote]

No, it's broken. D2 had the trading game, where if you wanted to you could swap for items. But it wasn't forced down your throat, like the AH in D3 is. Diablo has always been a Skinner box. Only, D3 is a Skinner box with a broken lever. The D3 forums are rife with threads by people who hit a gear wall, at which point their only recourse is to go to the AH. Blizzard admits this is by design. At no point in D2 were you [i]ever[/i] forced to trade or (even more hilarious) open your wallet and shell out actual cash (my God, have we really come to this in Diablo?) to continue to progress and beat the game.

D3 was broken as soon as Blizzard stopped letting gameplay drive the game design, and started letting the beancounters make the decisions.

At any rate, like a lot of other people seem to be, I'm kind of tired of talking about this thing. I've seen it for the over-hyped piece of money-grubbing trash that it really is, and that's sufficient for me.

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[quote name='DvDmanDT' timestamp='1338900395' post='4946419']
I live in Sweden (that's in Europe for those who don't know) and I've been able to play without problems since two hours after launch. The AH is not a game breaker in any way and does not interfere with my game experience in any way. The drop rate is certainly not lower than in the earlier Diablo games, if anything it's much higher. If the AH breaks the game, it's because it allows you to easily get too good gear which eliminates the challenge from the game.
[/quote]

Check the tech support forums and you'll see the blueposts on the dates where login servers have been down or far too busy to handle the traffic. (last blizzard confirmed issues were 3 days ago, 5 days ago and 6 days ago). (prior to that there was a login server breakdown almost every day), people were still able to play IF they logged in during the day but trying to log in during evenings was close to impossible.

As for the AH it might just be a misunderstanding of what bashiok meant, but it seems odd that he would say that the AH factors into the item droprate if the item droprate is static anyway.

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