• Advertisement
Sign in to follow this  

betting real money in games?

This topic is 2145 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Recommended Posts

I found a ad on this site to this site: https://developers.betable.com/?utm_source=Ads&utm_medium=728x90&utm_campaign=Gamedevnet_051812_PvP

And they take care of the legal issues so we can add betting to our games.
They don't have any contact info yet so I can't ask them any questions.

But this is something I've always been interested in even as a gamer if there's a competition for money in a game it catches my entire attention.
And wouldn't it just be AWESOME if someone created a really good game like some kind of MOBA game for example where you can bet money on if you think you will win... sort of like a pokersite.. play $5 matches or $50 dollar matches.. whatever is your fancy.

But I am sure there's a good reason no one has done this so far..
And the reason I think for that is that there's no way for us to prevent hacking in games..
I wonder how pokersites prevent it tho... I mean I've heard about the rare occurance that someone has hacked into the feed of what cards are coming out of the deck but it really is a rare occurance and I think by now that security issue has been sealed.

So...
What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Advertisement
One of their staff is registered here, and also posts on altdevblogaday, if you want to contact them directly.

I've worked in the gambling industry before, long enough to know the legal issues are large and complex, especially when it comes to the online space... it seems like a great deal to be able to outsource the legal risks onto a 3rd party like this -- almost too good to be true.

Regarding cheating + real-money (providing an incentive to cheat), there's been plenty of games that allow you to convert in-game currencies back into real-money, so it has been done before. Second-Life was rife with gambling services before the FBI advised them to crack down on it, and other MMO's have similar currency-conversion mechanisms (legal or not). I even remember a shooter game that was centred around betting, where you had to pay real-money to buy bullets in order to compete. Edited by Hodgman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You prevent "hacking" (i.e. cheating) by simply not sending the client any data that it needs not know. That's as good as you can get, because there's no way you can stop someone from doing anything they want with anything that's on a computer they have physical control over.

For a poker game, this is easy, you're sent just your own cards and nothing else, until the end. You don't need to see anything else all that time, so it works perfectly well.

For some other games, it may be much more difficult. For example, in a shooter type of game, you should not be sent any data about someone standing behind a wall, so making the wall texture transparent or some more sophisticated cheat won't be applicable. Unluckily, it makes implementing "nice" gameplay for legitimate players much harder too, and it is still not foolproof. A client might still need some information that normally isn't shown to the user for other reasons, and you cannot be sure a modified client won't cache legitimately received data which it should discard, etc etc.
OnLive is your best guess for a kind-of solution -- you only send input and only get to see a kind of "video stream". Of course you still can't prevent anyone from e.g. using a contrast enhancing image processing filter, or a motion detection filter for an unfair advantage, unless you control the box (which companies like Sony fail to do, so you have no reason to believe you can do it).

The much bigger concern is what happens when a minor plays your real money betting game. In some countries, you may go to prison for 2-5 years for this (depending on the judge's mood, whether or not they are inclined to think you did enough to prevent it from happening). You are not unlikely to get anything from angry soccer moms in your front yard to death threats from religious zealots too (gambling is the devil, remember).

And lastly what happens if someone actually manages to "win" 4-5 million with some exploit? This is something that is not unlikely to happen. Software is only as perfect as the people implementing it, and as perfect as the underlying components. In other words, not at all.
If someone exploits you for a few millions, you have to decide whether to pay them (who will yank out that money, though?) or refuse. You first have to figure out whether it's an exploit at all, too. And you had better be 101% sure about it. After all, it might be a legitimate winner, even if the chances are absurdly low. Take the lottery as an example. Winning the lottery (we're talking of the "big win", not some pennies) is practically impossible. However, it obviously does happen. Still, since it is kind of impossible to win, you should be inclined to believe that if someone wins, they must be cheaters. Now what would happen if it was publicly known that a lottery company refused to pay, only a single time in history? Nobody would ever play again.
In other words, if it is possible to win real money, you must be prepared to yank out real money in the worst case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The much bigger concern is what happens when a minor plays your real money betting game. In some countries, you may go to prison for 2-5 years for this (depending on the judge's mood, whether or not they are inclined to think you did enough to prevent it from happening). You are not unlikely to get anything from angry soccer moms in your front yard to death threats from religious zealots too (gambling is the devil, remember).


Good point, And money laundry too.
Maybe that betable site would take care of screening players that want to start betting?
Anyone that would want to start playing for money would have to turn on real money option on their account.. And only way to do that is by sending in all that documents about proof of residence, credit card info and all that pain the ass stuff hehe.


And lastly what happens if someone actually manages to "win" 4-5 million with some exploit? This is something that is not unlikely to happen. Software is only as perfect as the people implementing it, and as perfect as the underlying components. In other words, not at all.
If someone exploits you for a few millions, you have to decide whether to pay them (who will yank out that money, though?) or refuse. You first have to figure out whether it's an exploit at all, too. And you had better be 101% sure about it. After all, it might be a legitimate winner, even if the chances are absurdly low. Take the lottery as an example. Winning the lottery (we're talking of the "big win", not some pennies) is practically impossible. However, it obviously does happen. Still, since it is kind of impossible to win, you should be inclined to believe that if someone wins, they must be cheaters. Now what would happen if it was publicly known that a lottery company refused to pay, only a single time in history? Nobody would ever play again.
In other words, if it is possible to win real money, you must be prepared to yank out real money in the worst case.


That's also true..
It would be safest if you don't let them win money from you but from the other players they play against.
Sure you could hold a tournament with a fixed price every now and then as well.

I mean, If it's possible to implement betting into games... I don't see why most games don't do it?
It's pretty much free money for you if you count away the legal issues.
players bet against each other not against you.. so you don't got anything to lose.. but you still take a house cut for letting them bet against each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
players bet against each other not against you.. so you don't got anything to lose.. but you still take a house cut for letting them bet against each other.
That's exactly what the lottery does. They let, say, 50 million people bet against each other to guess the right numbers. You take money, say a dollar, from everybody placing a "bet" and you promise to give a prize (which is a share of the paid money), say 20 million, to the winner (if there is one). Plus, maybe another 20 million in small wins, to keep the crowd interested. Then some millions into advertizing, and a share to the dealers who sell your tickets, plus the money to actually print them and you keep the rest.

The jackpot isn't won every time, so all is fine. Massive profit for you.

And now imagine someone wins the jackpot every single time. Not only does nobody else win (not a problem with the lottery, but if people lose every time in a game where it seems possible to win, they soon realize!), but you also lose money. Edited by samoth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1338630547' post='4945532']players bet against each other not against you.. so you don't got anything to lose.. but you still take a house cut for letting them bet against each other.
That's exactly what the lottery does. They let, say, 50 million people bet against each other to guess the right numbers. You take money, say a dollar, from everybody placing a "bet" and you promise to give a prize (which is a share of the paid money), say 20 million, to the winner (if there is one). Plus, maybe another 20 million in small wins, to keep the crowd interested. Then some millions into advertizing, and a share to the dealers who sell your tickets, plus the money to actually print them and you keep the rest.

The jackpot isn't won every time, so all is fine. Massive profit for you.

And now imagine someone wins the jackpot every single time. Not only does nobody else win (not a problem with the lottery, but if people lose every time in a game where it seems possible to win, they soon realize!), but you also lose money.
[/quote]

It's not the same thing.
We will always be able to pay them the money they win because we take it from the other player.
They have to deposit the money into the game before they can place the bets.

They don't have a chance to win any money from us.. so we're always safe from what you're talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But this is something I've always been interested in even as a gamer if there's a competition for money in a game it catches my entire attention.
And wouldn't it just be AWESOME if someone created a really good game like some kind of MOBA game for example where you can bet money on if you think you will win... sort of like a pokersite.. play $5 matches or $50 dollar matches.. whatever is your fancy.

But I am sure there's a good reason no one has done this so far..
And the reason I think for that is that there's no way for us to prevent hacking in games..
I wonder how pokersites prevent it tho...


This is not a game design question, so I'm moving it out of Game Design. The question is also not about legality, it's about how hacking is prevented. Looking for the right forum to put it in...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote name='glhf' timestamp='1338618586' post='4945507']
But this is something I've always been interested in even as a gamer if there's a competition for money in a game it catches my entire attention.
And wouldn't it just be AWESOME if someone created a really good game like some kind of MOBA game for example where you can bet money on if you think you will win... sort of like a pokersite.. play $5 matches or $50 dollar matches.. whatever is your fancy.

But I am sure there's a good reason no one has done this so far..
And the reason I think for that is that there's no way for us to prevent hacking in games..
I wonder how pokersites prevent it tho...


This is not a game design question, so I'm moving it out of Game Design. The question is also not about legality, it's about how hacking is prevented. Looking for the right forum to put it in...
[/quote]

You are wrong, it's about implementing betting into games.. that is a game design issue.
It's about all issues that come with adding real money betting into games including the legal issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are wrong, it's about implementing betting into games.. that is a game design issue.
It's about all issues that come with adding real money betting into games including the legal issues.

What I don't get is why it was moved to General Programming. This has precisely nothing to do with programming. It should definitely go back to Game Design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It looks to me like this should be in Buisness and Law. The discussion has just been about the legal issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This topic is 2145 days old which is more than the 365 day threshold we allow for new replies. Please post a new topic.

If you intended to correct an error in the post then please contact us.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Advertisement