• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
ManStaringAtScreen

Talk to me about java in gaming

21 posts in this topic

Complete beginner here, I very much enjoy coding in java, hoping soon to do some game dev with it. What is the future for this language, in terms of the 'big boys', established developers, support on consoles etc. Forgive me if this seems like a bit of a 'non-question' to those more experienced but I'm curious.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='ManStaringAtScreen' timestamp='1340115041' post='4950579']
Complete beginner here, I very much enjoy coding in java, hoping soon to do some game dev with it. What is the future for this language, in terms of the 'big boys', established developers, support on consoles etc. Forgive me if this seems like a bit of a 'non-question' to those more experienced but I'm curious.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

Android requires it (Allthough you can also use native modules written in other languages), some ARM cpus run java bytecode nativly and ofcourse it is fairly common on PC/Mac/Linux.

For consoles it isn't that well supported so console games are usually written in other languages. (And thus AAA studios targeting consoles tend to not use it)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I haven't actually heard of any console supporting java. Someone was telling me theres a java derivitive for .net and mono so that might work on the PSVita or the xbox but thats it really.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, there's no console using java as programming language because of JVM. It would require huge amount of money to update JVM for consoles and big game companies will not invest in this. They rather make game in C or C++..

I personally think Win/Linux/Mac has enough users, gamers, who will play your game. So if you want to create games for consoles Java is not the solution and you should look for another programming language.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well its obvious use for the android OS is something. Do developers here have any success with games on the google store or is it pretty hit and miss?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='ManStaringAtScreen' timestamp='1340188897' post='4950911']
Well its obvious use for the android OS is something. Do developers here have any success with games on the google store or is it pretty hit and miss?
[/quote]

Some do, most don't. I keep hearing numbers suggesting established apps that are on both iOS and Android markets make about 10% of earnings on the Android side of the fence.

That said, these things are so loaded with fanboy BS, its hard to really tell. I can tell you one thing though... whenever I fire up Google Play on my Galaxy Note or Transformer tablet, I always walk away disappointed... the same (meh) apps always dominate the sales charts, which is telling.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1340218185' post='4951080']
I always walk away disappointed... the same (meh) apps always dominate the sales charts, which is telling.
[/quote]So by this do you mean there is a gap waiting for quality content, or perhaps the more depressing, people don't want quality content, and as the majority pretty much rules what makes it to the front pages..?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you think you can make the next great app then go ahead, chances are that if you get the word out that its there its rating might go up so others will find it on the play store more easily.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On the point of established developers, some Java success stories include Minecraft, RuneScape, Wurm Online and Puzzle Pirates. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Always use the right tools for the job, in this case Java isn't the right tool.. When you have limited resources to create an application you need every little thing that's available for you. The mobile market supports java just because Apple and Google want to make money off developers more than they want off users so they give you an "easy" language for you to work with.

At the end of the day, use what you are most comfortable with but the games industry is a tricky place to be!
-4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Tipotas688' timestamp='1340274641' post='4951282']
Always use the right tools for the job, in this case Java isn't the right tool.
[/quote]
You were on the right track to start with, but then you veered off into the wilds.

Java is quite capable of making commercially successful games, as evidenced by the examples I already gave in reply above. You [i]should[/i] always choose tools that are suitable and which you are comfortable with. For some people, that [i]does[/i] mean Java.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Tipotas688' timestamp='1340274641' post='4951282']
mobile market supports java just because Apple and Google
[/quote]Actually iOS doesn't support java
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great insights, I guess I'll carry on with java in the knowledge I'll pick up more skills along the way, on a project by project basis.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='ManStaringAtScreen' timestamp='1340188897' post='4950911']
Well its obvious use for the android OS is something. Do developers here have any success with games on the google store or is it pretty hit and miss?
[/quote]

It is hit-and-miss, but not because of the nature of the store.

Too many people develop games and hope to sell them with no business sense. They have a "build it and they will come" mentality.

When it comes to any revenue it boils down to simple math:

Number of people who visit * visitors who actually buy * buyer's amount they spend = revenue.

You need proper advertising and brand awareness to build the first one.
You need a proper product that is slick and polished and tested for the second one.
You need to charge enough that they can afford but not so much that they balk for the third one.

There are many tricks to fine tune each number --- figure out why people are visiting but then stop short of buying, figuring out exactly how much you can charge, etc., but it still boils down to those three issues.

Too many products just leave the first number at zero, and let the zero multiply right through the other factors. Edited by frob
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are actually things you can blame the store for though. For a search engine company, App discovery is pretty horrid. It has improved slightly, but even with the improvements ( like staff highlighting apps, or sales promos they have ), its still pretty hard to discover apps. To this day there is still no RPG or Strategy section, plus another half dozen common genres.To say nothing of the number of apps that never make it to a given phone. I never even knew there was a Mass Effect application, then when I heard about it ( on TV ), I headed over to the store and it isn't available for either of my Android devices, one of which is the best selling Android Tablet not named Kindle, the other is the Galaxy Note, which is among the top 5% fastest phones on the market right now. It is a pretty dire situation.

On top, Freemium seems to be the only market that really works on Android, and I dont know if that is a matter of the demographic or what. You need simply look at the top grossing apps, and you will quickly understand why.

One of the problems with Freemium, is the ad supported market, at least on Android, is horribly broken. I have talked to people who had a top 10 placed app that was add supported, downloaded in the 100K-1m range, and their revenue a month from AdMob didn't even approach triple digits. So with the exception of a scarce few Pay X price style apps, I think the only games really making money are those with a huge install base and in-app purchases. Edited by Serapth
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just came across a posting for a Sr. Java Engineer at Nintendo.
[url="http://www.nintendo.com/corp/jobs.jsp"]http://www.nintendo.com/corp/jobs.jsp[/url]

Nintendo of America Inc.
Job Posting:Jun 4, 2012
Engineer, Software or Engineer, Software, Sr (Java Application Development) (1200000028)[list]
[*]Software development and support using Java toolsets.
[*]Knowledge of application server development and frameworks such as Spring, Struts, iBatis, and Hibernate
[*]Experience with web service development using JAX-WS and JAX-RS is a plus
[*]Ability to write and understand complex SQL; Oracle PL/SQL experience is a plus
[/list]


Also not sure if you've seen it but there is a Java game engine:

[url="http://jmonkeyengine.com/"]jMonkeyEngine 3.0 | Java OpenGL Game Engine[/url]
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='eFoDay' timestamp='1340329965' post='4951573']
I just came across a posting for a Sr. Java Engineer at Nintendo.
[/quote]
Great find, although could the position be for, say, networking and databases in general, perhaps not actually related to work with in house development (not that I'm going to apply, just curious [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img] ) And I'm vaguely aware of Jmonkey, I guess it's as good as anything to get started with.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1340325035' post='4951553']
On top, Freemium seems to be the only market that really works on Android, and I dont know if that is a matter of the demographic or what. You need simply look at the top grossing apps, and you will quickly understand why.

One of the problems with Freemium, is the ad supported market, at least on Android, is horribly broken
[/quote]
Freemium works so well because of the simple formula of revenue mentioned earlier:

[left][background=rgb(250, 251, 252)]Number of people who visit * visitors who actually buy * buyer's amount they spend = revenue.[/background][/left]

Because people are not fearful of spending money the first factor goes up. Since too many (paid and free) games let that sit around zero, perhaps getting into the hundreds, the freemium model immediately generally opens up revenue by an order of magnitude.

Players in freemium may have a smaller purchase rate (attach rate of maybe 0.005) but the amount paid per item is much better (often $0.99 per purchase). The 99.5% who don't pay will have a perfect attach rate (1.0) but the amount per ad is horrible (about $0.00001 per daily unique player). Having every player giving some revenue, even if the revenue is tiny, is much better than having zero revenue at all. Since the model increases the first revenue factor the offset is generally acceptable.


From an experienced business perspective it is not horribly broken, but instead seems very successful. Edited by frob
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='ManStaringAtScreen' timestamp='1340115041' post='4950579']
Complete beginner here, I very much enjoy coding in java, hoping soon to do some game dev with it. What is the future for this language, in terms of the 'big boys', established developers, support on consoles etc. Forgive me if this seems like a bit of a 'non-question' to those more experienced but I'm curious.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]
[/quote]

Just so you know, I'm also a complete beginner.

Even so, I wanted to let you know about Google's little game development project that they are now calling [url="http://code.google.com/p/playn/"]PlayN[/url]

Since you are a Java developer, you should be able to use their framework pretty easily and also release your games for many platforms.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='frob' timestamp='1340378011' post='4951759']
[quote name='Serapth' timestamp='1340325035' post='4951553']
On top, Freemium seems to be the only market that really works on Android, and I dont know if that is a matter of the demographic or what. You need simply look at the top grossing apps, and you will quickly understand why.

One of the problems with Freemium, is the ad supported market, at least on Android, is horribly broken
[/quote]
Freemium works so well because of the simple formula of revenue mentioned earlier:

[left][background=rgb(250, 251, 252)]Number of people who visit * visitors who actually buy * buyer's amount they spend = revenue.[/background][/left]

Because people are not fearful of spending money the first factor goes up. Since too many (paid and free) games let that sit around zero, perhaps getting into the hundreds, the freemium model immediately generally opens up revenue by an order of magnitude.

Players in freemium may have a smaller purchase rate (attach rate of maybe 0.005) but the amount paid per item is much better (often $0.99 per purchase). The 99.5% who don't pay will have a perfect attach rate (1.0) but the amount per ad is horrible (about $0.00001 per daily unique player). Having every player giving some revenue, even if the revenue is tiny, is much better than having zero revenue at all. Since the model increases the first revenue factor the offset is generally acceptable.


From an experienced business perspective it is not horribly broken, but instead seems very successful.
[/quote]

This isn't just limited to freemium. Purchasable addons, power boosts, etc are available in some $1 games on appstore aswell and on the PC pretty much every game has DLC for sale these days.

It is easier to get people to pay a little bit multiple times than to get them to pay alot once, and some people get far more willing to open their wallet once they've invested their time in the game. Edited by SimonForsman
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello, im not much a developer, but i have some experience in Java and C++.

There are some games out there that are fully written in Java . . . there's even a game engine based on Java http://jmonkeyengine.com, So i wouldnt say its impossible to write games in Java, there are also graphic Libraries light the http://www.lwjgl.org/

But in My Personal Opinion, Java wont go as much as,,,, lets say C++ ... At least not for now, the Java VM takes out too much performance for power-hungry games.
If your project is lightweight, JAVA i think is great for that.

The very first language i learned was Java, and I really really Like IT [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] I think its a very intuitive and elegant and i think an OOP language like Java is the best way to learn programming (unless you try smalltalk, but its not so much fun).

In my opinion, if you like Java,, Learn JAVA! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img] try to make something, and then go on to C++ [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img] which is also one of my favorites (by the way, Java is 70% C++)
so you wont feel a rough change.

Hope this was useful BYE![img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0