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sankrant

Has the game industry reached a point of saturation?

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sankrant    121
Change and unpridictability were the features of the game industry 15 years ago... Change came fast in tools, the way of work, the hardware, the support and the programming languages.
Lately it is seen that game industry is stable, or can I say 'stagnent'??

We keep using the good old libraries... and in terms of programming too, we started with ASM, went through C, and ended up at C++ (the point of saturation).
Will in predictable future , there could be a move from stagnent principles? Or will see some interesting upsurps?

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sankrant    121
what do you think about the positive changes in vedio game technology, both hardware and software wise??
I would argue that the changes will be of less importance.
We will continue to see middlewares, tools and design in upgraded form only, nothing new.
Going to the programmers' way, we will continue to see C++ as the game engine development tool... And lua & stuff for logic for a very very long time, if not our lifetime. We would draw with same old directx and opengl.....

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sankrant    121
@Hodgman I must complement that you appear to be intelligent guy...

So you are saying that we will be using direct x/ c++ for a lifetime of anybody reading this??

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sankrant    121
@hodgman You actually are good...

Yes, people will use a screwdriver for eternity... Can this be a case in computers too? By your stunning refrence, can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??

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Ashaman73    13715
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1341570199' post='4956275']
just how in the 60's they used screwdrivers to get to the moon.
[/quote]
+1

[quote name='sankrant' timestamp='1341570579' post='4956277']
can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??
[/quote]
You can say, that the development of a single language or library, like C or zlib, is stagnant, but to derive that technologies like id tech X will be stagnant too, because they use old languages/libs/tools is nonsense.

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turch    590
[quote name='sankrant' timestamp='1341568249' post='4956273']
So you are saying that we will be using direct x/ c++ for a lifetime of anybody reading this??
[/quote]

[quote]
Yes, people will use a screwdriver for eternity... Can this be a case in computers too? By your stunning refrence, can I say that id tech 6 or idtech 7 will be C++ / Opengl or C++ / Directx ??[/quote]

The DirectX and OpenGL we use now are very different from what we used in the past. They may still be going by the same brand names, but they are different tools that have been changing and evolving. Even something as stable as C++ is undergoing pretty dramatic changes with the new standard being released and gradually implemented.

Graphics cards are just starting to mature as general purpose massively parallel processors, rather than specialized pieces of hardware that are designed to do one thing. Edited by turch

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sankrant    121
hey, I understand that the hardware, middleware, libraries and C++ is maturing... But it is not new. I am not criticising anything, and please dont take the word 'stagnant' as negetive.
All I want to say is, we are not creating anything new, just maturing the existing things. (and that may be a good thing). I am just pointing it out.

As for the id tech 6 and 7, (unreal engine 6, and put anything future), I just asked that if we are going to use existing(vigourosly maturing) things like C++11/opengl or something like x ??

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arkane7    213
I seriously doubt any of these languages/libraries will ever become obsolete or unused in the future, especially C++

Even if better languages or tools come out, C++ has been the standard for a long time, and will always be used to some extent whether for educational purposes or for implementations


What do you want these "stagnant" innovations to do that they currently cannot accomplish? Why are you so hungry for some new tool or language to pop out and replace them?

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Hodgman    51222
[quote name='arkane7' timestamp='1341587195' post='4956340']Why are you so hungry for some new tool or language to pop out and replace them?[/quote]That's a good point -- regardless of whether a new tool appears in the future, it's of great benefit for you to still study the tools that we have now.

e.g. We (almost) never write assembly any more, but the few guys in the office who [i]can[/i] write assembly are extremely useful to have around when you've got a difficult debugging problem -- they can look at the assembly (output from your C++ code) as it's running on the CPU, look at the raw memory in hex-dumps, etc, and see whats going on at a completely different level, offering new insights to you. Edited by Hodgman

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arkane7    213
Yes, just like learning assembly language. It isn't of practical use anymore, but it can provide a better knowledge to how the computer is really managing data and processing it, enabling the user to better manipulate and create what they want through the higher level languages.

That is why i think C++ will never truely die. It isn't overly abstract and doesn't hide ALL the details and allows a somewhat lower level control (correct me if I'm wrong)

I think the best thing that can be said here is this: We never truely understand where we are going until we understand where we have been.

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DZee    194
GPU's are getting more and more powerful, pushing the boundaries and limits of what seemed to be impossible a year or two ago. I don't think the game industry has reached a point of stagnation. That said, frameworks that decrease the amount of time spent on development are usually adopted by companies and don't change for some time because it's expensive and often deemed unreasonable by other departments. I'd also like to add that algorithm's that work are here to stay. Companies like CAE still use the C flight simulator written from specs in the 70's because it works. Why change a winning formula? Edited by DZee

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hustlerinc    169
How come noone mentioned HTML5 and browser technologies? That if something is a breath of fresh air to game developement. Taking the games straight to the browser, for easy access.

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dposton70    122
The industry is very different then it was 15 years ago but, IMHO, the next 15 years are going to be even more exciting. :)

HTML5.
WinRT/Metro
"Cloud Stream" games (OnLive/Gaikai).
Explosion of gaming platforms (phone, tablet, GPS watches, Google Glasses).

Today I can interface my shoes with my PC/phone ( [url="http://www.nike.com/us/en_us/c/training/nike-plus-training?rh=true"]http://www.nike.com/us/en_us/c/training/nike-plus-training?rh=true[/url] ). This is begging for a platform game.
They're currently testing self-driving cars. What sort of games will people want to play in their cars with all the free time they now have?

[left]If you're having a bad day, or you're "heads down" concentrating on a single project, it might feel stagnant. But take a look around, we're heading into the Diamond Age of gaming. :)[font="helvetica, arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"][color="#282828"] [/color][/size][/font][/left]

--- Posting this from work, so I'll give my company a plug ;) ---
[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]"I work for GarageGames, home of the award winning line of Torque engines and a [/size][/font][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3][background=rgb(255, 255, 204)]community[/background][/size][/font][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3] of more than 150,000 independent game developers. Learn more about us at [/size][/font][url="http://garagegames.com/"]garagegames.com[/url][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]"[/size][/font]

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MichaelBarth    341
I think that the issue is simply that everything we have is built off of something and always will be. Every modern computer we have will always have the base machine code as Hodgman pointed out. I think the sense is that we have so much that is built off of an old foundation, and that we could make an entirely new foundation that would work better, but how could we get to that point without what we have now? Why not a computer that doesn't run on electricity whatsoever? With our current computer design, it would be impossible. Every device requires an energy source. A pencil is useless without the energy to use it. If you keep going back, every new thing was built off of a pre-existing concept. At one point there had to be absolutely nothing, so how do we go from nothing to an entire universe? How do we go from nothing to gravity, to chemicals? Chemicals that exist in our very computers today.

By all of this logic the universe has been stagnant for its entire existence. You could say that every game we have existed billions of years ago as just as scattered atoms. Either way, it came from something that was already in existence. I mean we could go back and start from scratch and redesign the way a computer works, but right now, this is what we have. Edited by Spirrwell

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sankrant    121

You all rock with good answers....

So to conclude myself, we will not be changing the basic tools of trade, but changing the methods and way 'how we do a problem'.... that sounds gold.
I would say to myself that the usage of C++ will not decline, but grow with new platforms..

What I liked the most is the example of a screwdriver.
I guess that id tech 6 or 7(put anything there) would also use C++.

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_the_phantom_    11250
[quote name='sankrant' timestamp='1341630219' post='4956563']
So to conclude myself, we will not be changing the basic tools of trade, but changing the methods and way 'how we do a problem'.... that sounds gold.
I would say to myself that the usage of C++ will not decline, but grow with new platforms..
[/quote]

We will see changes when the 'best tools for the job' change.

Right now C++ is the focus because it is the common factor between the consoles, however it's recently been reported that due to the popularity of the iOS platforms Objective-C is now the 'most popular' language out there.

Basically 'the best tool for the job' rules the roost; be it C++ for the consoles, C# & .Net for tools, Objective-C for iOS work or Python and Lua for game logic scripting. Certainly if you are working on a console or PC game you'll use at least 3 of those 4 during the development time.

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_the_phantom_    11250
That depends on what you are talking about.

Most tools and pipelines these days are created using .Net based tools for Windows based companies.
Game logic is very often done in languages such as Lua or Python.
The core 'engine' might well be C++ but this depends on target platforms.

This is also the first time you've mentioned 'AAA' in any way; the games industry is far more than consoles and PC after all.

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sankrant    121
cloths are made with fiber.... But that depends on the target called human beings.... the primary market and advertisements depend heavily on mainstream games which are usualy AAA....

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