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Kiel368

Alternative minecraft

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Hi!
Recently I played minecraft a bit. I really loved the game, but it had many disadvantages.I immediatelly thought that voxel game is sth. for me. So, my final thought was:
[b]YOU CAN'T CHANGE STH WRITE YOUR OWN. [/b]
I've already written voxel engine, everything works nice, but I don't want this game to be a complete clone of minecraft.
So now, question to you:
[b]What would you change in Minecraft?[/b]
[b]Have you got a better idea for a voxel terrain game?[/b]
[b]And finally: Do you have any idea for name of the game?[/b]
Please write.
Thank you.

[b]If the game succeed, I'd be greatful to everyone, who wrote an answer. :-)[/b]

P.S:I'm very interested in changing terrain materials a bit, but I want terrain to be realistic and not cloned from Minecraft.

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Me personally in minecraft its all the same. Materials that you mine all seem the same as in red stone, lapis lazuli, diamond, iron, coal, etc all have the same block design, just different colors. My suggestion is to really set them apart from each other. Instead of it be all blocks change up the formats and make it so that its not just all 3d blocks. Cylidrical blocks, square blocks, rectangular blocks, all of these to me would make the game unique.

Honestly you don't really need a name till its say in the beta stages just for the fact that you wouldn't want to create the game around the name.

Just my two cents, I would love to see this topic go far :)

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Thanks, i'll think about it, but it's not very easy to make diffrent blocks in a 3darray, but maybe it's possible.
So, now we have 1 good idea! [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

Now some of my own ideas:
-When the game becomes a little bit larger, add a campaign. (I read that Minecraft adventure mode is going to be silly)
-Global server with user-created maps
-Components: You can build sth in freebuild (creative) and when put on survival map as a set of semi-transparent blocks, to see where to place particular voxels.

I liked your idea about diffrent blocks types. So the player will be able to place, apart from big blocks, smaller and fe triangular.

Write, what do you think and keep coming with ideas![img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png[/img] Edited by Kiel368

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Oh believe me I understand :) I will keep brainstorming ideas and post them here, because I am a lover of minecraft, but the design gets me bored very easily sometimes haha.

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I thought a bit about these diffrent shaped blocks. It is possible to do and I have some ideas to make them useful.

Now, thinking like a game engine programmer:
The game will have 2 main advantages. It will be fully cross-platform and very easy to mod, becouse i'm planning to write it in webGL, that is supported by the latest browsers. And it of course it brings about writing it in JavaScript, so it will be rather a hardcore challange.

By the way, do you know any sites about advanced javascript, which may be useful for this game? Edited by Kiel368

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I thought so, and you are correct it can and will be a daunting task to complete but no pain no gain :)

[url="http://www.jsmadeeasy.com/javascripts/Games/list_test.asp"]http://www.jsmadeeasy.com/javascripts/Games/list_test.asp[/url] this has tutorials relating to games, but with all the code I would pick and choose what examples would work best for this type of building game.

[url="http://www.good-tutorials.com/tutorials/javascript/advanced-topics"]http://www.good-tutorials.com/tutorials/javascript/advanced-topics[/url] this has an advanced guide on almost everything so a quick look through you should find a lot of useful info.

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If you are actually planning on doing this game I would definitely like to help. I am new to programming but I have a good base in object c# c++ javascript html and css. Remember I'm no expert :)

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I would have hoped the physics and gameplay be more realistic. As in, placing blocks takes time, restraints on where you can place them, gathering stuff might not be possible due to environment (1000 tons of stone on top of the base of a castle, no mining castle base for you), limit to block carrying capacity.

Of course it would require stuff like carts to move blocks around, or on multiplayer other players or npc's to help you. I just thought the player has too much power in how he can edit the world, i want to be able to make a castle where people cant just dig in in seconds or make a pile of dirt to climb over the walls...

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JonBMN, it's good idea you to help me, but I don't know when exacly I'll begin programming the game stuff. For now, i'm collecting ideas from users and making a list. I'll place it here and everyone will be able to write his/her own idea.

I'm planning the first version of the game to be like "Minecraft classic" and then develop it.

P.S: Do you have any knowlegde about voxel generation alghorytms, becouse i can only generate a simple hill landscape. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/sad.png[/img] Edited by Kiel368

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waterLimon that's a great suggestion. Making it more realistic to the point you can't even hold 200 blocks because of the physical weight and making it so making motorized vehicles like a dune buggy would be exceptionally more realistic and I love the ideas.

I understand completely keil368 and when you do start you can know someone would love to help :) but also I do not but I will start researching and learn the engine because I absolutely love the idea you have of making a potentially "real" version of minecraft.

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GPU Gems 3 - Chapter 1. Generating Complex Procedural Terrains Using the GPU http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch01.html

Just a little reading material that I thought might be of interest.

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This might help for landscape generation:
[url="http://www.gamedev.net/blog/33/entry-2249106-more-procedural-voxel-world-generation/"]http://www.gamedev.net/blog/33/entry-2249106-more-procedural-voxel-world-generation/[/url]

It's about generating a voxel landscape with veins of ore and caves.

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I couldnt really think of much to add into minecraft, apart from some curved blocks of some sort.
To be honest i dont think a 'clone' of minecraft would really work. there have been dozens of attempts to make a new minecraft (especially as it was being made) and they all fell short.

The only way i could see it happen is by making it have some realistic graphics and landscape.
I really wouldnt ecpect many people to play this (if thats what you want). The 'minecraft' phase has come and gone, along with games like terraria. I doubt you would be able to bring it back unless the game was really realistic.

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[quote]I've already written voxel engine, everything works nice, but I don't want this game to be a complete clone of minecraft.
[b]Have you got a better idea for a voxel terrain game?[/b]
[/quote]
What you have is graphics,
I.e Just because you have written your game in z++, doesn't mean your game is a zounterstrike clone.
Just because you have "jump" button doesnt mean you are a mario clone.
Just because you have "move forward" button doesnt mean you are a packman clone.

Just thing your game idea completly from start, ignoring if the underlying implementation has a voxel terrain.
There are many genres, just chose one of them.

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OK, but any ideas how to make graphics more realistic, except better textures, a bit smaller blocks and different shapes of them?

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Ideas for graphics:
-Fancy shader effects (bumpyish surfaces, glowing lights (HDR?), water effects...)
-Smoothed edges/corners for some block types, not for some others (dirt would be smoothed, rock not)
-Fog, not the distance based one but a voxel based one. Not sure if its possible. Like a sea might have a fog layer over it under certain conditions, but on top of a mountain you can see clearly. Maybe a low-resolution 3d grid with transparent surfaces, so in a foggy area it renders the low res grid as various densities and colors of fog? (idk, billboards?) It would look nice to stand on a mountain or high tower and not see any ground details, just tips of other high things (if its foggy weather i mean, maybe even fog producing things to make it harder for your enemies)


I think the greatest thing about voxel games is all the cool mexhanics/physics you can add. Air, fluids, pressure, heat etc. You should really mess with those lets say trying to add air pressure (10 different air types for different pressures? unless you want an air pressure value for every air block of course.)


If possible try to make the engine generate really high mountains, one of the reasons i find minecraft boring is that the terrain is too flat and everything looks the same. If there was a giant mountain that takes 30 mins to get over and its all snow and ice and i would freeze to death half way through, that would be awesome.


EDIT:

Oh and check out this in dev voxel game named "terasology", it had some cool graphics like better light effects and moving grass blades and stuff... Edited by Waterlimon

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That's great set of ideas. My imagination says, that it would be very interesting with those effects. Those effects will make game realistic without dividing blocks fe into 64 smaller. Thank you very much.

I checked out Terasology. Nice game. It has really epic terrain generator. It's open source, so maybe I could see how their terrain generation is written, to have some base for mine. Edited by Kiel368

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what if you make each block have, say, 1/8 of the minecraft block size, then, when you punch the block with your pickaxe, you break more than one block at the time, creating a destruction effect, then, for placement, you can make the player capable of crafting a bunch of those little blocks in a larger block, that in reality it's only a bunch of the little ones (i think i'm not being clear here, basically, the player has the option to place 8 little blocks in the shape of a larger one, or place the normal 1/8 sized block)

this way terrain would be much more detailed and the game more realistic, it's possible with the technology of your choice to archive this?

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This may be a bit far removed, but awhile back (during the Minecraft-is-really-popular phase) I had an idea for my own version of a voxel building game.

Instead of traditional flat world the world would consist of chunks of rock floating in the air. The player would be able to jump or fly from chunk mining, etc. Eventually the player would gather enough materials to be able to build a "helm". Placing this on one of the rock chunks would give the player control of it, letting them fly it around as their own personal fortress. Further structures could be built to add walls automatic defenses, spotlights, etc.

If you went down the world would get darker, with more frequent floating rocks and monsters. Going up the world would get lighter with fewer monsters.

I liked the idea but eventually gave up. I didn't want to be seen as a minecraft clone.

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I think 1/8 blocks would make it too slow if you want a large world...

But it would be cool if it represented damaged blocks not as different texture but by making it look like theres chunks cut away.

Lets say it has the damage value, and based on that, if its damaged and youre close to it (!), it makes it look like a 3*3*3 chunk of blocks with some taken away depending on surroundings and damage (and different texturing based on block/damage)


If you go farther away it would just show it as a normal cube but different texture to represent damage.


Not sure if it could be done using shaders to make really deep looking holes and stuff, that might look better.

EDIT: random though, what it would look like if you used some nonlinear z division instead of a linear one? So that close objects get smaller slowly, but farther ones faster (so it kind of would represent some range with same precision and then quickly reduce precision over distance?) Edited by Waterlimon

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the blocks don't need to have always 1/8 of the size, only when the difference is significant.

let's say that the default block has a size of 1*1*1.

when you punch that block with your tool, that block is swapped by a chunk of blocks that have a fraction of that size.

depending on the damage of the tool, the block is swapped by more or less blocks.

as an example, you hit a block with a spade, that block receives enough damage to be swapped for 8 new mini-blocks. some of those drop and are given to you, the others stay on the game world.

oh, silly me, when i've said 1/8 of the size, i wanted to say that one block would be swapped for 8 other blocks.

an example of the effect (appropriately made on minecraft, but not by me...) :

[img]http://blogs.bgsu.edu/rmcpher/files/2010/10/Minecraft-screenshot-3.png[/img]

also, there's a mod for minecraft that makes the block damage permanently, this is the effect given by that mod:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/JJCTs.png[/img]

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[quote name='Mito' timestamp='1342096986' post='4958376']
what if you make each block have, say, 1/8 of the minecraft block size, then, when you punch the block with your pickaxe, you break more than one block at the time, creating a destruction effect, then, for placement, you can make the player capable of crafting a bunch of those little blocks in a larger block, that in reality it's only a bunch of the little ones (i think i'm not being clear here, basically, the player has the option to place 8 little blocks in the shape of a larger one, or place the normal 1/8 sized block)

this way terrain would be much more detailed and the game more realistic, it's possible with the technology of your choice to archive this?
[/quote]
I like this idea for the fact it would make it so you could still have stacks of 64 blocks but not be overwhelmed by the weight because they are about an 1/8th of the weight. Saying that, the destruction idea is very good, but maybe realistic mining with the need for structural supports in your cave that make it so if you don't have them it will collapse on you. This could be a little much, but I think it would be the most realistic mining experience.

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Good idea about dividing blocks then you're close to them. I'll see what i can do. Maybe 3 levels of detail. For blocks that are further than 75 blocks, no divisions, for blocks further that 20 divide into 8 smaller, 10 - > 20 division into 64. 0->10 - 512 But there's a problem with saving those divisions on hard disc....

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well, i don't know the algorithm, but i guess you could save some kind of metadata. simple save the whole block, then use the block metadata to specify what parts are missing. (or present, who knows)

you can make it so each mini-block has an index, and you save the index that are missing, something like:

int[] block = { -1 } //all the mini-blocks are here, the block aren't subdivided.
int[] block2 = {0,25,128} // the mini-blocks that have the index 0, 25 and 128 are not present in the current block (likely picked by the player) and should not be drawn.

where this is storage friendly, i can't say anything about general performance without a well defined algorithm and some tests...

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