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Wilson Lim Jiun Voon

Game Engine question. (UDK, Torque or Unity?)

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Hi all, I am new to these forums, and am an aspiring game developer.

I intend to develop my own game that is similar to the Armored Core games (more towards armored core 4 and 5), and I am unsure which game engine would be best to develop in. I originally wanted to build it from scratch, but I realize that it would probably take much longer to get a stable game engine going and I thought it'd be best if I invested in an existing game engine and focus more on the game development.

I got these 2 books:
3D Games Programming All-in-One (http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/1598632663)
Advanced 3D Games Programming All-in-One (http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/1592007333)

and it seems like the book teaches game programming in torque.

However, I have read alot of unfavorable reviews for torque, and its user unfriendliness (which i hope the book solves), but at the same time, those reviews are 3-4 years old and may be outdated, and there are some few favorable reviews too.

Should I develop my game in Torque? or should I start looking at the alternatives (UDK, Unity, etc)?

edit: description of the game im planning to make
hmm okay, to elaborate on my game a little more:
- i plan for a multiplayer system (minimum 5v5, maybe going upward to 15v15) on a dedicated server.
- there will be a story mode which will have scripted events, etc where 1-3 friends may join to aid.
- the game will be in third person view, camera losely follows the character.
- There will be ranged and melee combat.
- I plan to use hitbox detection for weapons and shields.
- there will be aerial battles too (which requires jetpacks, aerial physics, etc).
- planning to implement a feature where the player may shoot grappling hooks onto walls and they may climb or rappel.
- wall jumping
- stealth effect (transparent warpy object)
- the player character models would have changeable parts dependent on what he/she equips (arms, legs, head, etc)
- AI for bots and the story mode.
- having multi platform options is always a plus too.

I'm rather mostly worried about the game engine's network code and limitations (who knows, there may be something that prevents me from doing what i want above).[/quote] Edited by Ixsiehn

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Torque is shit. It's been shit for well over ten years. They know it's shit. They don't care. They just want your money. Then once they have it, you can go **$^ yourself for all they care.

I've never been a fan of the Unreal style going back to the late 90s. Also, the engine and tools target the high end market. UDK is suited to shooter games, and most other genres fail miserably. The toolset is massive and has steep system requirements. It's a great engine, it just fails miserably at anything that isn't a graphically intensive FPS.

Unity3D is more suited to general purpose games. It can be a pain in the ass at times, but it has lots of things going for it. The WebPlayer is great. You can compile things into your dropbox folder, and throw the link up on your twitter, and everyone can play your game instantly! It can get expensive if you want to update to the PRO versions, and you have to pay for every platform! But the free version will take you very far.

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hmm from the sounds of it, i guess I should move over to unity (UDK seems to only work for graphics heavy FPS which isnt what im going for)?

Would it be able to make a handle fast-paced third person action game that is heavily scripted? (I am not too familiar with unity myself other than some suggestions ive read from forums threads, my original impression of unity was that it was a game engine for iOS)

Also, exactly what made Torque "shit" in your opinion?

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I would go for Unity3D.

Unreal has great graphics capabilities, but it has a very steep programming learning curve if you aren't already proficient in that area.

Unity3D is great at showing results straight away and has extremely good documentation. The compiler(MonoDevelop) makes things a breeze too. The main downsides are the expensive licenses for anything other than web or standalone windows free edition.

If you have little or moderate experience in game creation I would recommend Unity3D. If you are quite proficient in programming and want the better rendering engine, unreal is probably where you want to go.

These are just my opinions however, and are by no means 100% agreeable upon.

EDIT:


Would it be able to make a handle fast-paced third person action game that is heavily scripted? (I am not too familiar with unity myself other than some suggestions ive read from forums threads, my original impression of unity was that it was a game engine for iOS)

Unity is very good at being diverse. Almost any game you can think of can be created in it. I suggest having a look at the website showcase and forum posts. That will help you see whether Unity3D is worth your time or not. Edited by Alismuffin

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Torque is infamous for many things. Poor documentation. Product doesn't work as advertised. Fixes come in new versions that leave you abandoned and scammed, etc. No one ever produces anything with it. The best product produced with Torque is a shitty tech demo filled with programmer art on Xbox Live to market their engine.

Unity3D started out as a Mac game engine, then branched out to Windows, iOS, Android, a Web Player, Chrome Native, and now Linux. It's a general purpose, open ended engine. You import assets into the engine, assemble a series of scenes, and then add scripts to make your game objects behave in certain ways. It's very easy and quick. You even have several options for what scripting language you want to use.

UDK is also a great engine. But it's not as open ended or general purpose. You are basically modding Unreal, and then trying to shoe-horn your specific game functionality into it. It's very hit or miss. Mostly miss. The entire thing is just geared around the shooter game mentality. Arkham Assylum is one of the few exceptions. But in a lot of ways, it's very close to an FPS anyways until the melee fighting kicks in.

Either engine will suit you fine. They can both handle heavy games. They can both handle heavy graphical loads.

UDK has the edge on Unity3D graphically, but only at the level of a big studio producing tons of AAA graphics, and the gap is closing with each new Unity release.

Unity3D has the edge on ease of use, and being general purpose.

The Webplayer is a HUGE thing. You just build your game into your dropbox folder (or anywhere on the web), and anyone with the Unity3D Webplayer can play it instantly. A lot of people on the forums share their work like this, as opposed to just screenshots.

Unity3D is not perfect. The editor could use some improving. Asset importing can be a pain. And the engine itself suffers from the problems that come up when you try to be everything to everyone instead of more focused like UDK.

UDK gives you more upfront for free. Unity3D withholds most of the high end features like real time shadows, and render to texture for the PRO version. Although, you won't need a lot of this stuff anyways. The quality of the game is ultimately up to your art skills.

UDK is cheap up front with royalties later on if you profit from your game.

Unity3D is expensive up front, but nothing is owed later. Also, you have to pay for every version. They'll e-mail you in the middle of the night, without warning, ransom style, "Hey, we just bumped the version number! You have x amount of days of to pay us z amount of dollars if you want the special upgrade price" :)

Unity3D targets low to high hardware. UDK seems to focus on upper medium to high end.

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Oh wow, awesome replies! thanks so much guys. I guess i will really give unity 3D a look, it may just be what i need.

Another question though, if say I first develop my game in the free version of unity, but in future decide to upgrade to pro, would it be easy to convert over? or would it almost feel like reprogramming the entire game in a different engine?

Thanks so much for the informative replies btw.

I also lol'd at the ransom bit (though i may not laugh so much once i experience it first hand, haha)

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Another question though, if say I first develop my game in the free version of unity, but in future decide to upgrade to pro, would it be easy to convert over? or would it almost feel like reprogramming the entire game in a different engine?


This question brings up another issue with Unity3D that hasn't been mentioned yet. The compatibility between versions is horrific. Your scripts are always safe and can be backed up and transitioned over to another version of Unity3D, however the data storing what script is on what and where that texture is or this collider gets lost in the transition.

Worst case scenario, you have to manually reattach (From your memory) each component.

However, transitioning from pro version and free version as long as they are the same decimal version (2.5 or whatever it is right now) should be fine. Edited by Alismuffin

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Pro and Free are the same thing. Free just blocks access to advanced features. Free becomes PRO with a serial number, and then those options become available.

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BTW..in full disclosure...I'm the CEO of GarageGames. To say we don't care is total BS.

Poor documentation. [/quote]
Check out our tutorial and judge for yourself. You can download the full engine (all features) but without source code. http://bit.ly/O6BetU

Product doesn't work as advertised.[/quote]
There have been cases where something wrong has slipped through...and since I've been with the company we removed anything that was in a gray area. There was a time in our past history where we had some very lofty questionable language. On my first week at the job we removed anything questionable

Fixes come in new versions that leave you abandoned and scammed, etc.[/quote]
We've spent well over two years fixing bugs. We had one paid for update in the past four years and we asked for $49.00. If you didn't want to upgrade, we gave you the bug fixes for free.


No one ever produces anything with it.[/quote]
The reality is that a very, very, small percentage of indie developers produce games with any engine. Making a full game is very difficult and time consuming. There have been several Indie titles on Steam that were built on Torque. Here's a bigger list for you to look at:

http://www.garagegames.com/best-of-torque/torque-3d

The best product produced with Torque is a shitty tech demo filled with programmer art on Xbox Live to market their engine.[/quote]
See above...

It's true that we have a very different product than Unity or UDK. If you want source code, you can't beat our engine. We do have a steeper learning curve and teams with strong programmers tend to do better with our tech. We also have the lowest price with zero royalties.

GarageGames was sold one and a half years ago. If you haven't tried Torque in several years then you are talking about an almost completely different company.

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Without reading all, they all fail for me. Why? M$ market share is already down to ~70% in Switzerland and I believe it will fall below 50% within the next years. So support for all main OS is my first kill criterion.
But also you don't learn to program, could not later use such as reference. You probably will even end in a impasse and need to go back and change everything, only because lack of full control over the source code.
So sorry, even if they would be free, no thanks. I'm happy with Ogre etc.

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