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3Ddreamer

Game Career Planning - Early Learning Stages

32 posts in this topic

Hi,

After almost two weeks of reading in this wonderful website and other research, I am in the process of making a career plan for game development in my future. The leadership and community here has really helped me.

This body of planning is a rough draft which I wrote over the last few hours this morning and I would like help in guiding me to realistic and effect improvement of my plans.

If anybody actually has the time to read all this, you may be blessed to do so. Please offer your thoughts and feelings on this. I welcome any and all criticism and suggestions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my very basic career flow with future goals until end of 2014 expected to be only very simple accomplishments:

2006 - 2012 : Modding games and simulations, learning about computers in general, and sharpening 2D and 3D art skills: Goals all accomplished.

2012 - 2014: Learning game design, website development, and game development. Learn C# by making my own office suite and game dev tools, learn website language through making my own website, learn probably both C++ and Python for game functionality, and learning other programming to tie these together. First efforts will mostly be open source here.

2014 - Indefinate Future: Develop and Publish Indy Games.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are two more sections: What I want in games and my goals for the next 2 1/2 years.

Game Fundamentals - Minimum Features
---------------------------------
The first thing that I feel should be stated is my goal for my first couple games to include all the fundamental aspects which I like in a game. Though the games might be simple in 2D and 3D content, I want them to have a relatively broad but thin technical foundation for future development of games. The technical branches will be fewer and shorter in my first couple games so as to focus on game structure primarily because the purpose of them is for learning and not end user appeal.
Here is the list of things that I want in my first couple games:

End User Environment
--------------------
First person shooter.
Reload.
Change weapons.
Aim and fire.
Shoot from the hip.
Magnification such as scopes and binaculars.
Crouch, walk, jump, run, or dive.
"Rag doll" wounding or kill
Head pivots with user view.
Pivot at the hip for quick response firing.
Strategy option.
Tactics option.
Ability to switch between strategy and tactical command on the fly.
Global map or regional map.
Tactical map
Dynamic Gameplay Objects

Sky with volumetric clouds.
Water which is dynamic and has depth.
Land with variety of terrain.
Air, land, and water user-operated vehicles.
Basic physics, independent of graphics brand names or API, such as gravity and ballistics
Triggers
AI
Unexpected circumstances, often created by coding randomization

Art Genre
---------
3D environement
Sprites, Decals, and hard edge 3D objects
1st game using textures
2nd game using textures and a few rendered surfaces.
1st game using non-living animations
2nd game using both living and non - living animations
Damage models
Collision detection
Effects

Game
----
Offline only for the first game
Offline and online play for the second game
OpenGL for first game
OpenGL or DirectX user choice beginning with 2nd or 3rd game
Runs well on middle priced laptop or notebook computers, with or without dedicated graphics cards
The first one or two games will be open source and after the bugs are pretty much gone, I will share the source code for the first one or two games to the communities which support me in their design and development.


Long Term Features
------------------
The list is very long here, but I will mention night vision as being one detail example and portability of the game to Xbox or Playstation as an important long term goal.

[color=red]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color]

2012 - Research, Learning, Foundation Laying Stage - August through December 2012
----

August 2012 - Research Stage
----------------------------
Read and ask questions to gain information to begin C# programming the following month which is September 2012.
Collect learning information needed to make tools in the C# programming language. The first C# project of mine will be of work on an open source game developer office suite beginning in September 2012.
Make a flow chart for development of the office suite, subject to evolution in the future.
Choose an Open Source game engine as the basis for learning the fundamentals of computer game development. This is the game engine which will be the focus of designing my first game beginning in October 2012. After that first game, following games will be developed by me and not merely designed.
Open source game engine will allow tools to be made in C# and implemented games in C++ or Python.
Begin research into website design languages.

September 2012 - Open Source "Office Suite for C#" Development Begins
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Install and configure the previous chosen open source game engine. Begin learning it and planning a flow chart for game design of the first computer game. Make final decision on the theme of my first game to be designed.
Begin programming the office suite for C#, evolution being for indefinate time. Office suite development will track the needs revealed by the open source game engine which is installed this month.

October 2012 - Game Design Begins
---------------------------------
Designing of the first game begins here. Using the open source game engine chosen, the design of my first game will continue until the end of 2012. Office suite development will roughly follow game design needs.

November 2012 - Website Planning and Programming
------------------------------------------------
Planning a flow chart for website development begins here. Programming starts immediately after flow chart is completed. Flow chart may evolve with time. Website will evolve in relation to office suite. Website development deadline and launch is the end of 2012.

December 2012 - Programming is Intensive
----------------------------------------
Some effort will be made for learning but more effort focused on accomplishing the following results:
1) First game design completed by the end of 2012, being certainly very basic.
2) Basic office suite in C# constructed and being used by the end of 2012, even if it is very simple.
3) Website developed and online, only in short and easy structure.

Important Reminder: Goals are for a basic foundation perimeter, not even a whole foundation, to be laid by the end of 2012. Balancing the broader evolution is most important for 2012 rather than amazing details. Remember the fundamentals of the game and don't spend too much time on game details in the early stages.

2013 - Open Source Game Development, Website Homebase Creation, and Open Source Game Developer "Office Suite for C#" Launch
----
Whatever complexity of this game engine and game, it will be published as open source to the community which supported me in their development.


2014 - Private Game Engine and Private Game Development - private and proprietary creation begins here.
----
The goal is to publish a proprietary game by the end of 2014, be it a simple or complex game.
Formulating a game development plan for the next year or two after 2014 must be completed in December 2014 (for a specific game to be created next).

[color=red]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/color]

Summary: My next 2 1/2 years will be spent in learning the basic structure of games, game development fundamentals, and launching the custom made systems which will eventually allow me to become an indy game developer, even if the accomplishments are all only simple. A balanced approach is more important in early stages over a polished, complex game. Creating the system is more important than developing an advanced game in the early stages.


3Ddreamer - "Look! The dreamer is coming!"
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I always thought that if one love to make games he/she starts by actually making a game, not by learning stuff that might or might not be useful in future :) There is nothing about your fun, desire, dreams, tension in that post. If you are looking for a career, drop games, these are not paid well enough to justify it. If it is to be boring at least make it well paid (like accounting).

Generally, basicly all people who actually made games I know, made these because they wanted other people to have fun, and/or to let their creative juices go wild, sometimes to drop their boring office job. I have never heard about anyone starting by setting a goal like portability to Xbox or Playstation (I also have no clue what that would matter to anyone).

If you are able to postpone making a game for 2 years, then probably making games is not what you like the most on this planet (and if making games is not what you desire the most it is a stright way to despair and wasted effort).
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Tool making is something I like to do. This will be a part of my work. Being only a game maker has nothing wrong with it, but I want more.


Though the borders of game maker, game designer, and game developer are often at least a little blurred, there are characteristics which can define them.The distinctions among occupations are important I feel.

A game maker could potentially use all the content, tools, and other things created by others to make a new game. Learning languages, creating 2D or 3D art, and making tools are not absolutely needed for the game maker.

The game designer is a little more, typically working for someone or a company, possibly under a game developer, and leads the artistic effort of the game. Sometimes the game designer makes some tools but always relies heavily on previous existing things. Game designers often use game engines already created by a game developer.

Many game developers create their own tools for their games and game engines. Some developers are all in one, a sort of one person band, as a 100% indy developer, but some have a corporation over them and/or a game designer with a team of artists underneath.


Creating my own tools will be very useful for learning languages, making some game types of features only available through expensive tool programs or even whole suites, and creating tools will cause me to examin deeper the inner workings of games in order to be able to make the most difficult changes and improvements in the game.

There is nothing wrong with only making a game, but I will enjoy creating a game development system.

It is all a matter of what a person wants, I believe.


3Ddreamer

Got dream? Edited by 3Ddreamer
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[quote name='nox_pp' timestamp='1344867299' post='4969071']
Start by making something that you really want to make, not some dinky tetris clone or your own office suite.
[/quote]

Actually, when you're just starting out, a "dinky tetris clone" is probably the best thing to do.

This is piggybacking on what ApochPiQ already said (more or less): One complete project is worth several fancy demos. The ability to "get it done" is essential, and it's unlikely that you'll ever attain that ability by pursuing an overly ambitious set of goals, especially when you lack the basic programming skills.

You learn by making games, so you have to make games, not work on some "dream project" for years.

Start with simple retro knock-offs; You will learn plenty.
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Yikes well atleast you have some planning skills. Planning is atleast an important part to programming (but its not unusual that plans change during the course of a project)

Perhaps you could turn your attention to starting programming now, its never too early to start
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Okay, guys

I see the unpredictability. What I want in the long term won't change much, I feel. However I do see that many things could change along the way in the details and timing.

How about making a much more general plan for only the next month? Does anybody see complications with this idea?



3Ddreamer
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Okay, good, there Apoch - one year sounds reasonable to me. I went from one extreme to another, looking for more help.


What specific time frame for planning would you other people make? Please be specific. There is nothing wrong with agreeing or disagreeing with Apoch. You don't like my extensive original plan and that is fine but I would like to know what specifically [i]you[/i] would do? Here is another natural train of thought: How has your planning habits effected your accomplishments? Is there anybody with big plans who failed? Is there anyone with almost no plan who hit the bit time here?

I have another question for everybody: Don't you think that a multi-year school program for gaming design would have an agenda far more extensive and detailed than my original proposal? I suspect that none of you thought of making [i]that[/i] comparison instead of comparing my plan to your own standards. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img] Please do not misunderstand here, because I realize that there is a wide variety of planning styles and any one of them might work for a hard working person.

No offense taken and none intended, but I feel that these are all important questions. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]


3Ddreamer Edited by 3Ddreamer
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You will, if ever, only get hired depending your skills. Look for ex. at this guy that got hired by google:
[url="http://googlecode.blogspot.ch/2011/06/swiffy-convert-swf-files-to-html5.html"]http://googlecode.bl...s-to-html5.html[/url]

As for freelance coding etc., it's in general very hard to make enough money to survive...
Planning...yea good idea, but usually you end up using much more time for a specific app. Edited by mike4
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Good day, everyone

I want to thank everyone who replies here. Everything was seriously considered by me.

Surely, there are two extremes in planning. One game developer plans little and another plans according to a game dev school covering years or an aspiring AAA game with a huge team. Most people are in the middle somewhere.

I believe that we have covered all basic issues.


Thanks,

3Ddreamer Edited by 3Ddreamer
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Please Ignore this post. I am current out of my mind from lack of sleep. Edited by Estabon
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[quote name='ApochPiQ' timestamp='1344899532' post='4969236']
The pitfall there is twofold.

First, if you only learn to maintain project discipline in one-month increments, you will flounder and burn out [b]hard[/b] as soon as you land in an environment that demands a project whose lifetime is measured in years.

Second, a month isn't long enough to do anything interesting, not at this point in your growth.


I stand by my earlier statement: pick a year-long project, and go do it. Put as much love and polish as you can into that project, but limit it to exactly one year. If you don't have enough time in a year to finish your goals, learn the difficult but necessary skill of knowing what to cut back on. If you have extra time, polish it more - there's always room for improvement.
[/quote]
You seem like a very unproductive programmer.
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[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1344895924' post='4969218']

How about making a much more general plan for only the next month? Does anybody see complications with this idea?
[/quote]

First of all, how old are you and what are you doing now? This is important because if I would not give a 29 year old working adult the same advice I would give to a 15 year old teenager.

The biggest problem I see with your plan is this:

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1344856283' post='4969012']
2006 - 2012 : Modding games and simulations, learning about computers in general, and sharpening 2D and 3D art skills: Goals all accomplished.
[/quote]

What this says to me is that you even though you say you want to make games, you spent 6 years not making games. This is like someone who aspires to be a racer but spent 6 years modifying car engines, learning about cars in general, sharpening car fixing skills instead of actually driving.

My suggestion for the next 1 month: Go make a game. Start now, stop hesitating. By have a game up and running by 30th Sept.

You can only be a good chef if you keep cooking and learning from your experience. To train to be a professional sportsman, you have to keep doing the sport over and over again. To become a game designer, you need to actually start making games! There really is no substitute for experience. Furthermore, the game you make should be the game you enjoy making. There is really no games that you absolutely must make to become a game developer.

Good luck! Feel free to send me a message if you need any help or someone to talk to. :)
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@ApochPiQ
I don't know. I don't mean to pick you apart and judge you, I just find the way you look at programming to be very different than how I view it, and it interesting to me in that respect. You sound like you spend far too much time trying to remember every last detail before moving on compared to how quickly I like to make progress. Again, I'm not judging you, I'm just really interested.
I moved onto Programming with the Win32 Api after about a day of learning C++. Don't get me wrong, I take programming very seriously. I know when I've gone too far and need to take a step back and prepare, but I also really enjoy jumping in head first, feeling lost, and figuring out a solution.
Just to let you know... I was suffering from a 4 day long insomnia when I wrote that about you... (when you go that long without sleep; you enter a psychosis until you fall asleep). By the way you've replied you've showed a lot about your character and you have my respect.
If you're interested. I would enjoy hearing more about what you do with programming. So feel free to message me if you want to. I most likely won't agree with any advice from you. Right now you have me interested. How long have you been programming and what level would you say your at? What have you've acomplished project wise? Edited by Estabon
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Hi, Legendre

[quote name='Legendre' timestamp='1345198342' post='4970492']
[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1344895924' post='4969218']
How about making a much more general plan for only the next month? Does anybody see complications with this idea?
[/quote]

First of all, how old are you and what are you doing now? This is important because if I would not give a 29 year old working adult the same advice I would give to a 15 year old teenager.

[color=#008080]My age is 46, so feel free to talk in mature terms and criticize all you want. I welcome it.[/color]

[color=#008080]Research stage is where I am. For me, it is basically having a good look before I leap into it. An even better comparison would be having a good look at the area within eye range in the canyon before I leap, if you know what I mean. Game development is complex for even the simplest developer, so charting a course is more important the more complex the journey. ( You mean, if I want a huge system, I might have to plan? Yeah, that is exactly what I mean.) If I were going to game dev school or working for a corporation game developer, then the organization would have a general plan for me in their system. In my case, I will be an indy game developer and must make my own plan, placing the onus on me.[/color]

[color=#008080]Once I feel that I have C# learning sources and tools which are good for my needs and not ones which would send me in the wrong direction, then I will begin C# programming in a systematic way. Two days ago I began researching C# learning sources and tools. Today I will begin writing my first C# programming if I can squeeze it into a busy day.[/color]

[color=#008080]The only forums which suit my qualifications are Beginner for most things and Creative/Visual Arts where my intermediate level in 2D and 3D would be acceptable. I have not studied programming since college in 1986 when I was borderline beginner/intermediate level in both BASIC and COBOL programming. That year I created one 2D game and one 3D game for IBM PCs. Those things are long ago absolete! LOL[/color]

The biggest problem I see with your plan is this:

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1344856283' post='4969012']
2006 - 2012 : Modding games and simulations, learning about computers in general, and sharpening 2D and 3D art skills: Goals all accomplished.
[/quote]

What this says to me is that you even though you say you want to make games, you spent 6 years not making games. This is like someone who aspires to be a racer but spent 6 years modifying car engines, learning about cars in general, sharpening car fixing skills instead of actually driving.

My suggestion for the next 1 month: Go make a game. Start now, stop hesitating. By have a game up and running by 30th Sept.

You can only be a good chef if you keep cooking and learning from your experience. To train to be a professional sportsman, you have to keep doing the sport over and over again. To become a game designer, you need to actually start making games! There really is no substitute for experience. Furthermore, the game you make should be the game you enjoy making. There is really no games that you absolutely must make to become a game developer.

Good luck! Feel free to send me a message if you need any help or someone to talk to. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img][/quote]


Well, there is more to my life history. My mother had a disease called Lupus and disabled so I had to focus on her and not a career. Later a couple other disabled loved ones got my attention which delayed my entry into game development, so you see that there are other legitimate delays not attributed to procrastination in some people's lives. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img] Depsite other people's needs, I still managed to earn a living and learn Win XP, Win Vista, Win7, Computer and Network Security, administrate a popular modding website, and become intermediate in 2D and 3D art while creating well over 100 3D models for several simulations. Trust me: It would be a challenge for anybody to care for disabled loved ones and accomplish all this.

Moving to the next point, I feel that for most people, this would be perfect advice that you gave. In my case, I will not just be the chef, I want to be the [i]executive chef[/i] and owner of the restaurant, put in symbolic terms compared to game development. Making games [cooking food] will be added to overseeing others [kitchen help, waitresses, accountants, managers, janitors, and so forth].

I solute every person who only makes the game [ only cooks food ] and not the tools and certainly not the system with all the tools and creating the game combined. Being only a game maker may allow a person to focus on the talents at hand, so it has advantages.

Many people in these forums don't seem to understand that making a game is fine, but game developer can potentially be far more than only making a game. On one extreme some people make games only and the other extreme is the game developer who makes the tools [u]and[/u] a custom system [game engine] for the game [u]and[/u] a specialized suite for game development (servers, website, intranet, and so forth). Most people are in the middle of these two extremes.

I am one rare bird who wants to eat everything and fly everywhere. People like me can not be tied to a parent bird or flock for too long. Someday I will become a mature indy game developer and fly where only I may go. Any flock would never follow me because every flock has a leader bird who has different ideas. They will all do just fine for it, too. Any loner bird would not follow me for very long because each bird has individual wants, needs, and capabilities. Such an independent bird does not need another independent bird and will do just fine, too. The other birds are always going to wonder what I am doing and why, but to each his own.

Any way you define it or describe it, indy game developer is inevitable for me.

Thank you for the offer of help, by the way - nice gesture

3Ddreamer
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@3Ddreamer:
People here critical shit heads. :/ (my only tip: You're better than indie games. You're only an indie game devoloper as long as you say you are. Say you're a business! And that's what you are.) And, you are right about gaining the proper resources before jumping into it head first. Sometimes it's fun to do that, but having good material to fall back on and read is how you make progress. As soon as you start reading some shitty book, you'll be back to looking for different books. What made you decide to go with C#?
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First of all, calm down. I'm just giving you some advice based on personal experience. Not shooting you down or anything.

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
Game development is complex for even the simplest developer
[/quote]


Not true. Some games can be developed easily.

E.g. Take a look at the games on a flash portal such as Newgrounds. Google around for tutorials. You'll see how easy a beginner can make similar flash games in just a few days.

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
I still managed to earn a living and learn Win XP, Win Vista, Win7, Computer and Network Security, administrate a popular modding website, and become intermediate in 2D and 3D art while creating well over 100 3D models for several simulations.
[/quote]

Why did you do all these instead of actually making games?

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']

Moving to the next point, I feel that for most people, this would be perfect advice that you gave. In my case, I will not just be the chef, I want to be the executive chef and owner of the restaurant, put in symbolic terms compared to game development. Making games [cooking food] will be added to overseeing others [kitchen help, waitresses, accountants, managers, janitors, and so forth].
[/quote]

If you look at head chefs who are also owners of successful restaurants, they have quite a passion for cooking and actually spend a considerable amount of time cooking before they got to where they are. You will not find one who spends years learning how to do the accounts, managing janitors, learning how to manage the front etc, instead of actually cooking.

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
Many people in these forums don't seem to understand that making a game is fine, but game developer can potentially be far more than only making a game. On one extreme some people make games only and the other extreme is the game developer who makes the tools and a custom system [game engine] for the game and a specialized suite for game development (servers, website, intranet, and so forth). Most people are in the middle of these two extremes.
[/quote]

Well, if you make tools, servers, website, intranet and so on, you're not a game developer. Because a game developer, well, develops game.

E.g. If someone say he is a chef, you'll expect him to know how to cook. You'll not call someone who make pots and pans a chef, nor would you expect a chef to be able to make pots and pans.

All I am saying is this: If you want to make games, make games. Stop waiting.
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Hi, Estabon

How are you doing today? Did ya get some sleep?[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.png[/img]

You did pretty good with the posts considering [quote]I was suffering from a 4 day long insomnia when I wrote that about you...[/quote]

However, if you get all rested, then you might hit the 7 point upvote post level of your opponent, ApochPiQ, in my thread here.[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]

All joking aside, I can always use someone like you on my team to defend me. (drum kit effects: b-doomp, crash!)[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]

This stuff is important so it's good to get different points of view.

My basic flow chart is:
1) Learning stage - open source as much as possible, willing to collaborate
2) Indy Game Developer Stage - I will go underground in order to develop my first marketed game, heavy into proprietary creation, meaning pure indy game developer.
3) Hit Game Publishing - When I have that big hit, I will need to form a team again to improve future games and diversify the releases, which means incorporation.

It's amazing to me how much everybody thinks along similar lines, often not even realizing it. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/cool.png[/img]


3Ddreamer - "Here comes the dreamer again!" "I hope he doesn't beg us to interpret his dreams like last time!" [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]
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[quote name='Estabon' timestamp='1345213359' post='4970558']
@3Ddreamer:
People here critical shit heads. :/ (my only tip: You're better than indie games. You're only an indie game devoloper as long as you say you are. Say you're a business! And that's what you are.) And, you are right about gaining the proper resources before jumping into it head first. Sometimes it's fun to do that, but having good material to fall back on and read is how you make progress. As soon as you start reading some shitty book, you'll be back to looking for different books. What made you decide to go with C#?
[/quote]

indie = independent = not owned/financed/controlled by [b]another[/b] company(usually when it comes to games this would be EA, Ubisoft or one of the other big publishers). it has nothing to do with the quality of the products or professionality of the business. (Allthough successful indie studios are very likely to get bought up by the big publishers and thus cease to be independant) Edited by SimonForsman
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[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/blink.png[/img]

Well, it was predictable that the big guns of qualifications would come ( I like to look at people's profile before I respond - good advice, don't you think?[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/wink.png[/img] ), but even [i]I[/i] felt the shock wash as that one went past me. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/ohmy.png[/img]


3Ddreamer - "Who awaked me from my slumber?"
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[quote name='Legendre' timestamp='1345216505' post='4970574']
First of all, calm down. I'm just giving you some advice based on personal experience. Not shooting you down or anything.

[color=#B22222]Oh, I am quite happy.[/color]

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
Game development is complex for even the simplest developer
[/quote]


Not true. Some games can be developed easily.

E.g. Take a look at the games on a flash portal such as Newgrounds. Google around for tutorials. You'll see how easy a beginner can make similar flash games in just a few days.

[color=#A52A2A]I understand what you saying. Do you realize that a person can make a simple game without being a game developer?[/color]

[color=#A52A2A] To me, a game maker is simpler than a game developer. In the company environment where I worked, the owner was a skilled programmer doing all the programming and he was the game developer. The said game developer hired a game designer to use the game developer's system. The game designer in turn was responsible for managing the art team. Now there was some overlap of work, but in that company there were three distinct levels: Game Developer, Game Designer, and Art Team. Some companies follow this general structure but the leadership decides both the structure and what each level will be called - not I, not you, and not this community. Each company has the right to determine the terms of service and agreement. The two are closely tied, as you will see when you look more closely into it. I hope this helps.[/color]

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
I still managed to earn a living and learn Win XP, Win Vista, Win7, Computer and Network Security, administrate a popular modding website, and become intermediate in 2D and 3D art while creating well over 100 3D models for several simulations.
[/quote]

Why did you do all these instead of actually making games?

[color=#B22222]As explained elsewhere, mostly due to caring for my disabled mom and other loved ones. (I almost cried over that response and I am not prone to cry.) Since my games will be heavily art focused and I need system experiance, this was the path I chose because I liked it. [/color]

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
Moving to the next point, I feel that for most people, this would be perfect advice that you gave. In my case, I will not just be the chef, I want to be the executive chef and owner of the restaurant, put in symbolic terms compared to game development. Making games [cooking food] will be added to overseeing others [kitchen help, waitresses, accountants, managers, janitors, and so forth].
[/quote]

If you look at head chefs who are also owners of successful restaurants, they have quite a passion for cooking and actually spend a considerable amount of time cooking before they got to where they are. You will not find one who spends years learning how to do the accounts, managing janitors, learning how to manage the front etc, instead of actually cooking.

[color=#B22222]Pardon my frankness, but I think you are missing something important. What I was doing is like learning several things short of "cooking" a game, like prep cook, and other entry level work in the kitchen. Maybe you don't see the value of doing several things short of being a "chef", but the many things I learned which are part of games will be very helpful later and allow me to focus more time on programming. Try to look at a game maker as a cook but an indy game developer is an executive chef who owns the restaurant, like some famous chefs do.[/color]

[color=#B22222]Besides all this, the highly skilled art work which I want in my games in a few years will require the skills which take years in their own right. Most of that is behind me. It's clear to me, but I can't make everybody understand everything, so I hope you understand now.[/color]

[quote name='3Ddreamer' timestamp='1345212309' post='4970554']
Many people in these forums don't seem to understand that making a game is fine, but game developer can potentially be far more than only making a game. On one extreme some people make games only and the other extreme is the game developer who makes the tools and a custom system [game engine] for the game and a specialized suite for game development (servers, website, intranet, and so forth). Most people are in the middle of these two extremes.
[/quote]

Well, if you make tools, servers, website, intranet and so on, you're not a game developer. Because a game developer, well, develops game.

E.g. If someone say he is a chef, you'll expect him to know how to cook. You'll not call someone who make pots and pans a chef, nor would you expect a chef to be able to make pots and pans.

All I am saying is this: If you want to make games, make games. Stop waiting.
[/quote]

Game maker is like the symbol of a cook.
Game developer is more like an executive chef.

Game Maker: Think cook
Game Developer: Think Executive Chef

Do you see the difference?

Game Maker is like the race car foreman
Game Developer is like the automobile manufacturer

Get it?

They don't call this a game maker website. They call this a game developer website. [img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif[/img]

There are tons of game maker and game designer websites out there and few game developer websites. Why?... Readers are asking? Because there are far fewer true game developers (most of which are professional or aspiring to be, though some are hobbyists), but by contrast there are far more game makers (most of whom are hobbyists with no strong desire to go pro).

Basically I have done most things in the kitchen shy of creating the menu, combining all the ingredients, and heating it, to put it again in symbolic terms - almost everything short of a cook, so why knock it?

I know what I want to create, so I am in the process of researching what I need to do it. What is so hard to understand about this?

If I wanted, I could make a simple game within several days and send it to you to play, but I would be no closer to being a game developer without learning [i]system[/i] issues.

Make a game vs create a system to create a game: See the difference?

3Ddreamer - "Ahhh... You poor thing, Mr. dreamer... so misunderstood. Come now... let me make your ouwey all better!"[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]
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