• Announcements

    • khawk

      Download the Game Design and Indie Game Marketing Freebook   07/19/17

      GameDev.net and CRC Press have teamed up to bring a free ebook of content curated from top titles published by CRC Press. The freebook, Practices of Game Design & Indie Game Marketing, includes chapters from The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, and An Architectural Approach to Level Design. The GameDev.net FreeBook is relevant to game designers, developers, and those interested in learning more about the challenges in game development. We know game development can be a tough discipline and business, so we picked several chapters from CRC Press titles that we thought would be of interest to you, the GameDev.net audience, in your journey to design, develop, and market your next game. The free ebook is available through CRC Press by clicking here. The Curated Books The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses, Second Edition, by Jesse Schell Presents 100+ sets of questions, or different lenses, for viewing a game’s design, encompassing diverse fields such as psychology, architecture, music, film, software engineering, theme park design, mathematics, anthropology, and more. Written by one of the world's top game designers, this book describes the deepest and most fundamental principles of game design, demonstrating how tactics used in board, card, and athletic games also work in video games. It provides practical instruction on creating world-class games that will be played again and again. View it here. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing, by Joel Dreskin Marketing is an essential but too frequently overlooked or minimized component of the release plan for indie games. A Practical Guide to Indie Game Marketing provides you with the tools needed to build visibility and sell your indie games. With special focus on those developers with small budgets and limited staff and resources, this book is packed with tangible recommendations and techniques that you can put to use immediately. As a seasoned professional of the indie game arena, author Joel Dreskin gives you insight into practical, real-world experiences of marketing numerous successful games and also provides stories of the failures. View it here. An Architectural Approach to Level Design This is one of the first books to integrate architectural and spatial design theory with the field of level design. The book presents architectural techniques and theories for level designers to use in their own work. It connects architecture and level design in different ways that address the practical elements of how designers construct space and the experiential elements of how and why humans interact with this space. Throughout the text, readers learn skills for spatial layout, evoking emotion through gamespaces, and creating better levels through architectural theory. View it here. Learn more and download the ebook by clicking here. Did you know? GameDev.net and CRC Press also recently teamed up to bring GDNet+ Members up to a 20% discount on all CRC Press books. Learn more about this and other benefits here.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Hodgman

It's official: western citizen granted asylum from western tyrants

72 posts in this topic

So, an Australian journalist, [url="http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm"]subject to a smear campaign[/url], has just been granted asylum to protect him from a conspiracy by the United States to persecute/imprison/kill him for his publications. This is a freaking huge event. It's just become official that the US, the UK, Sweden and Australia are, within reasonable doubt, working together to fight against Freedom Of Information, Freedom Of Speech and governmental transparency. This is freaking huge... Shit just got real.

Meanwhile, the UK has [url="http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/britains-threat-to-ecuador-without-precedent-says-international-law-expert/story-fn59nm2j-1226451760152"]threatened to violate the Vienna convention[/url] in order to counter this grant of asylum, [url="http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/08/americas-vassal-acts-decisively-and-illegally/"]under orders from the US[/url].

How is this being reported in your country? Who is the bad guy, according to your TV?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here in Sweden we're pretty convinced he should be put on trial for rape. He's got nothing to hide... right?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1: - Lets see how much you like if is some one puts YOUR life, and the lives of YOUR family in danger in the name of "freedom of information".
2: - The UK has the right to invade the embassy, under international law, if they harbor known criminals.
3: - The guy is avoiding [b]RAPE CHARGES[/b] in another country.
4: - I'm sure international drug cartels, terrorists, and criminals in general would love to know how the government(s) are trying to stop them, and who the informants are. Edited by Shippou
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There's one thing I'm not getting. Why couldn't he had been extradited from the UK? Surely they have closer ties with the US. Edited by patrrr
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, I take it that means that your media is firmly showing Assange as the bad guy here. What countries are you in patrrr and Shippou?
[quote name='Amadeus H' timestamp='1345122728' post='4970151']Here in Sweden we're pretty convinced he should be put on trial for rape. He's got nothing to hide... right?[/quote]He has agreed to go to Sweden, as long as they make a statement saying they will not pass him on to the US, or if the US states that they are not going to try him for espionage. They refused. If they've got nothing to hide (other than rape charges), why not make a statement?
According to the (non-american-owned) reporting here, he's only wanted for [i]questioning[/i] ([i]not trial[/i]) over "rape". And that it's not even "rape" as in "forced sex acts", but a weird Swedish law that allows adult consensual-sex to be deemed inappropriate after the fact ([i]such as having sex with a minor - it's not ok even when consensual[/i]) -- where the prosecutor has decided that the women's consent at the time was obtained through "inappropriate seduction" and that because it was a short-term relationship, they should have used a condom, therefore it is "rape". Are your papers not reporting this?
Are they also not reporting that Assange did present himself to the Swedish police for questioning, but they told him he could freely leave the country because there was no crime committed, and that the case was reopened after political pressure from Claes Borgström? Or that the two woman were friendly with him after the "rapes", and that they refused to sign a witness statement saying that they had been raped? Or that Swedish police routinely travel overseas to question suspects, but have refused repeated requests to question Assange overseas? Or that they demanded an extemely rare "red notice" interpol warrant, for a 'rape' case ([i]even Muammar Gaddafi only had an "orange notice"[/i])?
It's pretty rare to find someone here who believes he's a rapist, or that the "rape" allegations are legit.[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345122817' post='4970152']
1: - Lets see how much you like if is some one puts YOUR life, and the lives of YOUR family in danger all due to your job being secretive.
2: - The UK has the right to invade the embassy, under international law if they harbor known criminals.
3: - The guy is avoiding [b]RAPE CHARGES[/b] in another country
4: - I'm sure international drug cartels, terrorists, and criminals in general would love to know how the government(s) are trying to stop them, and who the informants are.
[/quote]3 - see above, or watch the documentary linked in the OP. He's wanted for questioning over having non-violent, consensual sex without a condom.

2 - No, the Vienna convention protects embassies from [b]any[/b] unwanted intrusion by police. When criminals in the Lybian embassy alledgedly assassinated a UK policewoman, the UK surrounded the building, but could not enter. They ended up letting the killers leave the country - as this legal protection also extends to embassy vehicles. Not even countries like China have ever violated this convention. It will be an immensely huge even if the UK does storm the embassy to arrest him, criminal or not. It will be the first time this convention has been broken, and it will put at risk the lives of all UK diplomats/spies overseas!
Is the media that you listen to really reporting that the UK does have this right? Where did you get this idea?

1 - That's why Bradley Manning is being tortured while awaiting trial, right - he's the one that allegedly stole the documents? This is also why Wikileaks asked for the US government's help in redacting the files before publishing them, but had to do it themselves after the US refused to help redact sensitive life-and-death information. The New York times also published Manning's stolen files -- are they being painted as a bad guy by your media? Also, the US government was forced to admit that they haven't yet found a case where these documents have resulted in anyone coming to harm...
As a side note -- when the Bush administration decided to leak life-and-death secrets for political gain, like the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame"]names of CIA operatives[/url] abroad, there were no serious consequences: the few that were jailed ([i]for contempt, not leaking[/i]) had their jail sentences overturned by Bush's executive power.

4 - Sensitive names [i]are[/i] redacted in the cables. Go read some yourself. The same cables are published by the New York Times, The Guardian, Wikileaks and others -- if you've got a beef with the cables being made public, that's with Manning, not Assange. Or if it is with Assange, it's also with the Times, et al.
[quote name='patrrr' timestamp='1345123036' post='4970153']There's one thing I'm not getting. Why couldn't he had been extradited from the UK? Surely they have closer ties with the US.[/quote]If he's being extradited for seemingly political reasons, such as publishing US secrets, he can appeal to the European Human Rights court.
Once he's in Sweden, he doesn't need to be "extradited" to the USA -- they have a law that allows for "prisoner exchanges" that don't count as extraditions. As soon as Sweden puts him on remand awaiting trial, then as long as the USA promises to return him to Sweden after they're done with him then they can take him and he cannot appeal or ask the EU/UN to intervene. Edited by Hodgman
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funnily enough, most people I talked to about this had no clue this was happening.
So what I told them is "I'm not telling you what side to be on, but I think its one of those things you should give a damn about and forge yourself an opinion".

Craig Murray makes a compelling argument that the Vienna convention hasn't been breached by any major player even during the direst Crisis. If it should fall, its gonna hurt.

My opnion is this: At this stage, I don't really care about the man, what he did, what he represents, I'm mostly scared/intrigued to see how it plays out and the impact its going to have globally.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[b] @ Hodgman[/b]

"My Media" .... The US doesn't have 1 or 2 media outlets, so I can literally get any side of the story I wish from thousands of sources ... though I never bother paying attention to political drama any more.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's funny. I thought we'd gotten the idea that the US had abandoned its high ground a long time ago. Torture, indefinite imprisonment without charges, even kill orders on American citizens without charges... This is sad, but not even the least bit surprising. At least I still feel reasonably safe airing these ideas in public, without any effort to hide my identity. That may not always be the case here in the US.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345125421' post='4970170']
... though I never bother paying attention to political drama any more.
[/quote]

This is actually kind of a big part of the problem, right here. I don't know the truth regarding Assange one way or the other, but the thing is, from where I sit it seems as if we are letting certain people act with impunity and do whatever the hell they want, simply because we as a nation can't be arsed to pay attention, give issues the proper impartial coverage they require, or hold those certain people accountable for their actions. We, simply, don't give a shit, and giving a shit is the only way that the rules of due process and the preservation of civil rights and liberties will be fairly observed by those in power.

Please, people, start giving a shit.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I have noticed that this man and his wikileaks often leak US/western secrets but not Russian/eastern knowledge/secrects. How come? I mean why not treat all nations like this and leak all of it? Also I really think he should go to court if he is innoncent and get his name cleared. Sweden is not famous for being unfair when it comes to court and justice. It should be save.

Just my two cents... However, I do find this accussation rather convenient for govs who would like to punish him for hurting their diplomacy. Edited by Dwarf King
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='FLeBlanc' timestamp='1345126563' post='4970180']
[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345125421' post='4970170']
... though I never bother paying attention to political drama any more.
[/quote]

This is actually kind of a big part of the problem, right here. I don't know the truth regarding Assange one way or the other, but the thing is, from where I sit it seems as if we are letting certain people act with impunity and do whatever the hell they want, simply because we as a nation can't be arsed to pay attention, give issues the proper impartial coverage they require, or hold those certain people accountable for their actions. We, simply, don't give a shit, and giving a shit is the only way that the rules of due process and the preservation of civil rights and liberties will be fairly observed by those in power.

Please, people, start giving a shit.
[/quote]

Name something that can be done, that actually [b]WORKS[/b] .

Voting? - Nope, both parties don't care about anything but power
Protest? - Waste of time
Blogging? - No one cares about blogs any more
Talking About It ? - Waste of air
Communicating To Politicians? - ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


So I reaffirm my stance of not caring about political drama any more. Edited by Shippou
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Dwarf King' timestamp='1345126642' post='4970182']Well I have noticed that this man and his wikileaks often leak US/western secrets but not Russian/eastern knowledge/secrects. How come? I mean why not treat all nations like this and leak all of it?[/quote]Have you noticed this from reading wikileaks.org, or by reading about wikileaks in American-owned media? Check out the [url="http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Countries"]countries index[/url], there's a [i]lot[/i] of countries with leaked info in there. Regarding 'the east', wikileaks has been credited by some with setting off the 2010/2011 Tunisian revolution, which turned into the "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring"]Arab Spring[/url]", spreading democracy across the middle-east...
Yes, the US is a popular target, mainly because Bradley Manning ([i]allegedly[/i]) gave them the mother of all leaks in 2010, which they're still sifting through -- they said they could continue publishing for 20 years just from that one leak. Edited by Hodgman
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345127433' post='4970185']
Name something that can be done, that actually [b]WORKS[/b] .

Voting? - Nope, both parties don't care about anything but power
Protest? - Waste of time
Blogging? - No one cares about blogs any more
Talking About It ? - Waste of air
Communicating To Politicians? - ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


So I reaffirm my stance of not caring about political drama any more.
[/quote]

Hey guys, this is too hard. We should just give up.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We had a shooting at a Batman theater from a kid who was superior in school. Got a full ride + 20K each year in spending from a college. Anyone can look good on paper and in the spotlight. There is no question that Assange could have done something stupid, the guy just seems weird.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1345128012' post='4970191']
[quote name='Dwarf King' timestamp='1345126642' post='4970182']Well I have noticed that this man and his wikileaks often leak US/western secrets but not Russian/eastern knowledge/secrects. How come? I mean why not treat all nations like this and leak all of it?[/quote]Have you noticed this from reading wikileaks.org, or by reading about wikileaks in American-owned media? Check out the [url="http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Category:Countries"]countries index[/url], there's a [i]lot[/i] of countries with leaked info in there. Regarding 'the east', wikileaks has been credited by some with setting off the 2010/2011 Tunisian revolution, which turned into the "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring"]Arab Spring[/url]", spreading democracy across the middle-east...
Yes, the US is a popular target, mainly because Bradley Manning ([i]allegedly[/i]) gave them the mother of all leaks in 2010, which they're still sifting through -- they said they could continue publishing for 20 years just from that one leak.
[/quote]

Still don't get why they wanna do this. So a bunch of people decides to make most of the governments angry on them and expect to get away with it. I mean this is not common sense. Sure now we know that many govs are bad, but back then in the old viking nation their was a saying which still counts, "good persons do not a good king make".

We all knew that something would happen as soon as they leaked all these documents. The reactions wikileak met was expected by all. In China or Russia he would have been shot now. At least the man is still alive(ya I know he will end up in jail for a long time). And yes I have read some here and there as many documents was shown in original on many of our news websites. Still he knew this was coming and he did it so a far as I know he took his choice and must live with it.

Also I am not found of our western nations secrets getting leaked so we stand worse doing negotiations. I do also think about our children's future after all...

So should I say he is a hero or a traitor? I shall call him none of the names and instead deem him a naive man without the skills to analyze the results of his own actions.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Dwarf King' timestamp='1345129620' post='4970199']Also I am not found of our western nations secrets getting leaked so we stand worse doing negotiations. I do also think about our children's future after all...[/quote]Isn't that like a husband being caught cheating on his wife, but then getting angry at the person who caught him, instead of apologising for his actions and changing his evil behaviour for good?
Assange is not American; he has no reason to care about your patriotism. If as a hypothetical example, China v USA negotiations are now slightly more fair for China, then logically that is a good thing, as more "children's futures" have been benefited.
[quote name='Dwarf King' timestamp='1345129620' post='4970199']So a bunch of people decides to make most of the governments angry on them and expect to get away with it. I mean this is not common sense.[/quote]Does the name Elsberg mean anything to you? He was the 70's version of Bradley Manning. Again, the New York Times published his leak ([i]as journalists are constitutionally protected in doing[/i]), which began the end of the Vietnam War, and also led to the downfall of Nixon.
Democracy can't function without truth.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Look we are talking international relations here. No nation play by the rule. Just get over it. All that matters here is know how, resources, money and military power and then democracy. I dream about the last would be the most important but it ain't and we all know why.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1345121567' post='4970142']How is this being reported in your country? Who is the bad guy, according to your TV?
[/quote]Both my local papers have just reported it as a list of facts, with no slant.

Nation Paper did the same: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/16/britain-says-julian-assanges-ecuador-asylum-wouldnt-change-a-thing-may-revoke-diplomatic-status/ (Canada)
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Hodgman' timestamp='1345121567' post='4970142']
So, an Australian journalist, [url="http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/07/19/3549280.htm"]subject to a smear campaign[/url], has just been granted asylum to protect him from a conspiracy by the United States to persecute/imprison/kill him for his publications.
[/quote]

Is there any evidence that the US has the intention to extradite him from Sweden? It seems like it's something that's possible, but I've only heard people being alarmist saying that the US would do that without any confirmation that it's the US's intention. The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.

[quote]That's why Bradley Manning is being tortured while awaiting trial, right - he's the one that allegedly stole the documents? This is also why Wikileaks asked for the US government's help in redacting the files before publishing them, but had to do it themselves after the US refused to help redact sensitive life-and-death information. The New York times also published Manning's stolen files -- are they being painted as a bad guy by your media? Also, the US government was forced to admit that they haven't yet found a case where these documents have resulted in anyone coming to harm...[/quote]
He hasn't been tortured. He's been put in solitary confinement for a very long time, but he's also caused one of the largest intelligence leaks in US history. I don't see how you could expect anything different. The espionage act is serious business, and if he didn't know what he was getting himself into he shouldn't have leaked it.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345127433' post='4970185']
[quote name='FLeBlanc' timestamp='1345126563' post='4970180']
[quote name='Shippou' timestamp='1345125421' post='4970170']
... though I never bother paying attention to political drama any more.
[/quote]

This is actually kind of a big part of the problem, right here. I don't know the truth regarding Assange one way or the other, but the thing is, from where I sit it seems as if we are letting certain people act with impunity and do whatever the hell they want, simply because we as a nation can't be arsed to pay attention, give issues the proper impartial coverage they require, or hold those certain people accountable for their actions. We, simply, don't give a shit, and giving a shit is the only way that the rules of due process and the preservation of civil rights and liberties will be fairly observed by those in power.

Please, people, start giving a shit.
[/quote]

Name something that can be done, that actually [b]WORKS[/b] .

Voting? - Nope, both parties don't care about anything but power
Protest? - Waste of time
Blogging? - No one cares about blogs any more
Talking About It ? - Waste of air
Communicating To Politicians? - ha Ha Ha Ha Ha


So I reaffirm my stance of not caring about political drama any more.
[/quote]

This is why we need to re-invent our system, we have the technology now for every person to vote on every issue, for mass information to be distributed near instantly, yet we still rely on a 300 year old system where we give away our capability to just a very small minority.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Dwarf King' timestamp='1345132903' post='4970217']
No nation play by the rule. Just get over it.[/quote]

Polio kills. Just get over it.
Bank robbers rob banks. Just get over it.
Street gangs make neighborhoods unsafe. Just get over it.

Governments need to play by the rules. Especially democratic ones, who are working for the people who voted them in. They are [i]public servants[/i]. If they aren't serving the public interest, or are breaking the laws, that needs to be exposed, and the guilty parties need to suffer the consequences.

All the leaked Cables have been censored by Wikileaks to not put anyone in danger.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1345134008' post='4970225']
The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.
[/quote]

Then the only thing you know is wrong;
[quote name="BBC Website"]
Mr Assange took refuge at the embassy in June to avoid extradition to Sweden, [b]where he faces questioning [/b]over assault and rape claims, which he denies.
[/quote]

Not being tried, questioning.
No charges have been brought against him at this time.

The reason for the 'alarmist' attitude is that these charges suddenly appeared after it became clear he wasn't going to be leaving the UK for the USA. Hodgman's post higher up covers the details about the lack of statements and the deals which countries have in place.

It's pretty damned naive not to be able to do the maths here...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aw, come on guys, since when has our country ever done anything illegal?

[img]http://public.gamedev.net//public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.png[/img]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Amadeus H' timestamp='1345122728' post='4970151']
Here in Sweden we're pretty convinced he should be put on trial for rape. He's got nothing to hide... right?
[/quote]

Define We ? (I'm Swedish btw) The amount of political pressure in this case is insane, Seeing that Sweden have sent people off to be tortured by the US before he has every reason to be careful.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1345137022' post='4970243']
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1345134008' post='4970225']
The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.
[/quote]
Not being tried, questioning.
No charges have been brought against him at this time.
[/quote]

Ok. The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being questioned in an investigation of his rape of two women regardless of how guilty he may be.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0